Bob Brigham
Member II
New owner of Ericson 28. Rudder has high moisture readings on meter. Plan to drill and drain after haul out...any advice? 
draining rudder
- Thread starter Bob Brigham
- Start date
tenders
Innocent Bystander
If you store it inside and keep it warm you might get the moisture down. But you'll have to strip it and completely seal it with epoxy and glass mat next spring.
I should warn you that you are probably beginning an annual ritual. The foam is closed-cell; it took a long time for the water to get in there, and it will likely never get out again. Eventually the epoxy/glass mat will fail and you'll need a new rudder.
I did this every season for at least 6 years and gave up last year when it was taking more and more time to grind down the failed shell, and after patching it every year the rudder stopped looking much like a rudder. I got a new one from Foss in California and I think the problem will be solved for another 30 years or so. On an hourly basis I would have been way ahead just replacing the rudder when I started to get worried about it.
In ripping apart the old rudder I realized it is a lot stronger and more robust than I thought, even when saturated with water. It looked like hell with streaks of rust seeping through cracks, but was probably in no danger of failing any time soon. Still glad I replaced it though.
I should warn you that you are probably beginning an annual ritual. The foam is closed-cell; it took a long time for the water to get in there, and it will likely never get out again. Eventually the epoxy/glass mat will fail and you'll need a new rudder.
I did this every season for at least 6 years and gave up last year when it was taking more and more time to grind down the failed shell, and after patching it every year the rudder stopped looking much like a rudder. I got a new one from Foss in California and I think the problem will be solved for another 30 years or so. On an hourly basis I would have been way ahead just replacing the rudder when I started to get worried about it.
In ripping apart the old rudder I realized it is a lot stronger and more robust than I thought, even when saturated with water. It looked like hell with streaks of rust seeping through cracks, but was probably in no danger of failing any time soon. Still glad I replaced it though.
What's your fiberglass skill level and how adventurous are you? If you are ready to roll up your sleeves and get real dirty, you can recore it, but if this is new to you, follow Tender's lead. Here's a link to recoring my rudder:
http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/rudder/rudder-intro.html
http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/rudder/rudder-intro.html
Bob Brigham
Member II
Thanks David and Tenders. I have no visible outward signs, no weeping, no cracks...just high moisture reading in center of rudder near leading edge. Thanks for the tip on Foss. I may see what I can do simply this year, drill some holes, warm it up, drain some, and then epoxy. Foss next year?
Rudder "Liposuction"
Back in the 80's, we had to repair a weeping crack in the leading edge of the large transom-hung rudder on our Niagara 26. I took the rudder home one autumn and propped it up in our garage for about four months. I drilled one 1/4" hole near the bottom and water dripped out. So I drilled a bunch more up 'n' down the blade. Above a certain point there was no dripping.
It sat there and oozed water slowly for a while, and then slowed to nothing finally. Not being very good at delicate glass work yet I took it in to a local boat builder to have some thin cloth applied after the gel coat was sanded off. It came back nicely re-faired and ready for finish.
I used LPU paint for the above-water part and the usual (at the time) VC17 for the lower blade.
Never a repeat of the problem.
That was a foam rudder blank inside of a molded-out frp shape, too.
As I recall, I also epoxied in the holes for the gudgeons and re-drilled.
My guess is that you can drill all the holes needed, and just plan on epoxying them in later. That's if you are taking the rudder off for the winter or at least leaving the boat out of water for awhile.
Back in the 80's, we had to repair a weeping crack in the leading edge of the large transom-hung rudder on our Niagara 26. I took the rudder home one autumn and propped it up in our garage for about four months. I drilled one 1/4" hole near the bottom and water dripped out. So I drilled a bunch more up 'n' down the blade. Above a certain point there was no dripping.
It sat there and oozed water slowly for a while, and then slowed to nothing finally. Not being very good at delicate glass work yet I took it in to a local boat builder to have some thin cloth applied after the gel coat was sanded off. It came back nicely re-faired and ready for finish.
I used LPU paint for the above-water part and the usual (at the time) VC17 for the lower blade.
Never a repeat of the problem.
That was a foam rudder blank inside of a molded-out frp shape, too.
As I recall, I also epoxied in the holes for the gudgeons and re-drilled.
My guess is that you can drill all the holes needed, and just plan on epoxying them in later. That's if you are taking the rudder off for the winter or at least leaving the boat out of water for awhile.
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tenders
Innocent Bystander
> just high moisture reading in center of rudder near leading edge.
Water probably seeped in along the rudderstock. Try reaming out a channel in the rudder to open it up a little, store it upside down for the winter to encourage moisture to drain out, and fill the channel with epoxy and/or a bead of 3M 5200 and see what happens. You probably have many years left on the rudder.
Dave/Emerald - your post describing your rudder rebuild simultaneously fascinated, impressed, and terrified me. If a new rudder cost 10 grand I would have tried it. But for 1500 give or take for a virtually bolt-on new rudder from the OEM, it seemed like a high risk project!
Water probably seeped in along the rudderstock. Try reaming out a channel in the rudder to open it up a little, store it upside down for the winter to encourage moisture to drain out, and fill the channel with epoxy and/or a bead of 3M 5200 and see what happens. You probably have many years left on the rudder.
Dave/Emerald - your post describing your rudder rebuild simultaneously fascinated, impressed, and terrified me. If a new rudder cost 10 grand I would have tried it. But for 1500 give or take for a virtually bolt-on new rudder from the OEM, it seemed like a high risk project!
Hi Tenders,
I hear you, and I was lucky going into this project on having some pretty solid background working with fiberglass and epoxy, and some real luck also. I had a fantastic conversation with the owner of Foss Foam out in California regarding foam densities and the forces involved when this stuff kicks. Working with foam of this type was a first, and the stuff is unbelievable. You can imagine the dark 'n stormies were an essential part of the process as we pour a batch of foam, and then listen to the plywood creaking and groaning against the force of the expanding foam. When you start bending 1/2 carriage washers on 1/2 bolts, you get a real feel for how much pressure is in these things. When Foss builds them, they meter in a precise amount of foam and then the two halves of the rudder are held in place with hydraulic presses while it kicks. Just thinking about it makes me want to grab another dark 'n stormy
I hear you, and I was lucky going into this project on having some pretty solid background working with fiberglass and epoxy, and some real luck also. I had a fantastic conversation with the owner of Foss Foam out in California regarding foam densities and the forces involved when this stuff kicks. Working with foam of this type was a first, and the stuff is unbelievable. You can imagine the dark 'n stormies were an essential part of the process as we pour a batch of foam, and then listen to the plywood creaking and groaning against the force of the expanding foam. When you start bending 1/2 carriage washers on 1/2 bolts, you get a real feel for how much pressure is in these things. When Foss builds them, they meter in a precise amount of foam and then the two halves of the rudder are held in place with hydraulic presses while it kicks. Just thinking about it makes me want to grab another dark 'n stormy