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An interesting/annoying E38 leak....

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Heres a new one I've never seen or heard of before:

On my E38 there is an engine bilge that is separate from the rest of the bilge system, no limber holes. I assume this is to collect any engine fluids and keep them from entering the main bilge. Good idea.

There is also a fiberglass approximately 1" tube that is glassed in that allows the stuffing box water to pass through the engine bilge space and into the main bilge. This tube runs from the aft bulkhead of the engine bilge space to the forward bulkhead of the engine bilge space.

The stuffing box drips just aft of the aft engine bilge bulkhead and the tube ends there to drain off the water.

This tube has now decided to leak, its leaking stuffing box water past the aft engine bilge bulkhead into the engine bilge space. This is a closed space as I have said before and the water just accumulates there. I have to pump it out, chamois it out, etc.

Accessing this leaking tube is very, very difficult. Why it has chosen to leak now I have no idea. I can see "wetness" at the aft tube joint on the inside of the engine bilge space so I'm 99.999% sure that is the problem. Its saltwater, and there are no leaks on the engine.

To correctly repair this I would have to at a minimum, remove the shaft and possibly the transmission. Not bloody likely to be honest, I did that last winter and if I never did it again it would be too soon. I was thinking of grinding a bit on the aft side of the bulkhead, where the water collects and trying to seal that area with epoxy. May just be possible with a Dremel tool.

The other possible option is to simply install a PSS dripless shaft seal. I should have done this last year when I had the chance but did not. Now its bitten me in the a$$.

I used Ultra X packing when I redid the stuffing box so it leaks very, very little as it is and I'm also pretty sure "most" of the water is actually making it down the tube. I will also snake the tube to make sure its not clogged.

Any ideas on how to fix this would be appreciated.

TIA, RT
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
Since you have very little water passing through that tube, here is an idea. Why not get a smaller diameter tube that will fit inside the original tube, attach a small flange to the end that will be on the outside of the rear of the drip pan and bond the flange to that outside surface?
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Since you have very little water passing through that tube, here is an idea. Why not get a smaller diameter tube that will fit inside the original tube, attach a small flange to the end that will be on the outside of the rear of the drip pan and bond the flange to that outside surface?

Now that is the reason I LOVE this board! Thinking outside the box! You are correct, it is a reasonably easier task to make an insert that fits into the tube at the leaking end, penetrates into the tube 2" or so and has a flange on it to secure it. The whole deal could be 5200 in place and take care of the issue. Thanks for a great idea! RT
 
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treilley

Sustaining Partner
Rob, I am having a hard time thinking that tube suddenly started leaking. To be absolutely sure, get some food coloring(I like blue) and add it to some water and pour it into the stuffing box area of the bilge and watch it run through and make sure it really is leaking into the engine pan.

It is very common for the raw water pump to start to leak under the impeller shaft when those seals start to go bad. And they all eventually go bad and leak but it starts out very slowly and would only be noticed while running the engine and watching it for a few minutes.

If it is leaking, I would use a Dremel or a Fein to cut(at each end) the tube out entirely, repair it and glass it back in.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Rob, I am having a hard time thinking that tube suddenly started leaking. To be absolutely sure, get some food coloring(I like blue) and add it to some water and pour it into the stuffing box area of the bilge and watch it run through and make sure it really is leaking into the engine pan.

It is very common for the raw water pump to start to leak under the impeller shaft when those seals start to go bad. And they all eventually go bad and leak but it starts out very slowly and would only be noticed while running the engine and watching it for a few minutes.

If it is leaking, I would use a Dremel or a Fein to cut(at each end) the tube out entirely, repair it and glass it back in.

You are right Tim, I need to confirm it absolutely. I was able however to get water on my finger when feeling around on the "dry side" of the tube in the engine bilge. I have looked VERY closely at the raw water pump and I don't think that is it. I'm on my way to the boat to try and figure out the ID of the tube to see if it is possible to sleeve it with a transom tube style repair. I will bring the food coloring along as well, good idea!

There is really no practical way to "cut the tube out entirely". The engine would have to come out. Not going to happen.

RT
 
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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Okay,
At Tim's suggestion I tested the leak with food coloring dyed water. Yes, it is most definitely leaking in the place I thought it was. I can just barely reach the aft end of the tube area under the stuffing box. Mark H's suggestion to use a smaller diameter tube is the only real way to effect a repair without lifting the engine out of the way. Its a reasonable idea of simply sleeving the existing tube by inserting a smaller diameter tube with a small shoulder flange on it. This will likely work, and certainly can't hurt to try.

The question is what material to use? I measured the ID of the tube and came up with 0.795" 3/4" OD pipe will work slathered with thickened epoxy or 5200, etc. So what material is best?
Copper?
Brass?
Bronze?
Aluminum?
ABS?
PVC?
Other?
And then what best to glue it with?

I've looked in McMaster-Carr and I can get several materials that might work fine but I would like to know if anything at the local hardware store will do it? Obviously something like regular plumbing PVC or ABS will work well but what adhesives to use?

TIA, RT
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
Rob, would it not be possible to just wrap the tube where it is leaking with some epoxy soaked glass cloth?
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Rob, would it not be possible to just wrap the tube where it is leaking with some epoxy soaked glass cloth?

Tim,
When they glassed in the tube on the engine side, the glasswork is rough at best, not completely around the tube, space at the underside, and I cannot see what I am working on. This is all from feel. There is no practical way to sand, trim, etc. that area or apply the soaked cloth as it is underneath the transmission and coupler. My best bet is the sleeve.

Were I to haul the boat, remove the exhaust, the shaft, coupler, stuffing box, etc. I MIGHT be able to get to this spot, cut the pipe back 6" or so, glass in a new pipe and join to the old with marine hose. That would work also. I'm trying to avoid a haulout until next year. I will likely do the PSS shaft seal and when this is all apart I may have the room to fix it better. Right now, I need to keep the water out of the engine bilge.

A little research has shown West System G-Flex as a decent adhesive for PVC or ABS. Those are two readily available materials that are easy to work with.

Thanks, RT
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
Another thought occured to me last night. If you are only looking to insert about 2" or so of new tube into the original you might be able to use a small plastic or Marelon through hull fitting. It will already have the "flange" part molded in and maybe the OD of the hose barb part will fit within the original tube. You might have to shave down part of the flange so it will fit against the inside of the hull behind the drip pan. You could even shave down the hose barb part a little if it is too big to fit the original tube.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Update: Looks like its fixed.

Well, it looks like my repair worked.

The tube that carries the water from the stuffing box drip area is recessed about 1/8" into the bulkhead. Since the tube is a continuous piece I figured it had to be leaking there. I made a bushing from 1/2" ID PVC pipe, had to sand the OD down to get a snug fit in the drain pipe. Used a belt sander and that worked out great. The bushing was about 1" long. I sanded the drain pipe opening with a Dremel sporting a 90* head, cleaned everything with acetone and then glued the bushing in with West System G-Flex epoxy. If you haven't tried G-Flex yet you are in for a treat. I used the thick stuff and its very nice to work with. The kit is complete with all you would need to do a small job, which is very handy. I tested the repair today with colored water and it works! No leaks, no issues. Now I can do in water winter storage as planned and haul the boat end of next season. Still going to go for a PSS shaft seal but at least that can now wait a year.

Thanks for all the ideas and help!

RT
 
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