E-33RH under sail

A friend shot this picture tonight while we were all out on different boats for an evening sail.
I was crewing/relaxing on a Yamaha 33 and got to watch the Ericson I often crew on.
Wonderful evening with good friends!

Wind was about 10 knots with maybe 12+ in the puffs.

This is part of our yacht club's weekly "Take some friends out and go sail your boat just for fun" program. Good turnout tonight!

Loren

Nice shot, Loren. It looks like a decent breeze but still that flat water!

By golly, it sure is nice to have good, loyal friends -- especially when they have a camera handy! That is a very nice photo of ol' J,P,Foolish. Thanks, Loren.

I should point out for Kieth that we are sailing with the boat's original 1981 dacron main, and a 1996 North Mylar roller genny. The main has been recut at least twice. I think the full length battens were added at the last recut. The Mylar genny is probably past its normal life span, but it hasn't given up yet. I will admit that the newer genny is significantly better and faster. Anyhow, sailing is fun -- especially on an Ericson, and extra especially on an Ericson 33!

Mike Oxborrow
E-33 #25, JP Foolish

What to expect when sailing

We ate in the final process of getting our 33 back into action. The boat had been sitting for quite some time and I am getting close to taking her out for the first time at the end of this month. I have to replace the running rigging and have to come up with what halyards to replace and what to replace them with. Right now the boat has 3/8" line to a wire splice and I do not know if the sheaves at the top of the mast will except a 3/8 or 5/16 all rope halyard.

I need some comments on the replacment.

I am also replacing the traveler car and rigging to a more updated system. It would be nice to have some kind of guide on how you all trim the main to keep the boat flat. We have a 110 on the furler and have a new 130, can you all enlighten me on jib car placement and how the sheets run, I have the older jib cars placed on the inside track located about 1/2 way between the fixed ports. I am guessing that the cars will have to be adjusted due to the cut of the sail and how the leach of the sail looks when trimming.

Any help would be great, nice to see other 33 owners enjoying their ride.

Chris:

The first thing I told the rigger setting up our 33 after it was delivered, was to get rid of the wire halyards! Boo, hiss on wire halyards! (IMHO) The sheaves didn't seem to be a problem. My main halyard is 7/16th, others are 3/8 or 5/16. I later had the masthead main halyard sheave replaced with a Harken bearing sheave (just a little easier to get that big main up!). I replaced my main halyard last fall with StaySet X. If there is any stretch, it ain't much. With modern low stretch line, there is no reason to mess with wire halyards, IMHO. I did go with a high tech super low stretch line for the jib halyard.

Maybe I can help on your Traveler replacement, since I done did that some time ago. The 33 kinda falls on the dividing line between traveler sizes - I went with the larger "Big Boat" car - at that point the difference in cost is not significant. If you are going with Harken, do yourself a favor and use there 800 number to talk to their technical people. My main contact there was Jim Borne (he may still be there). Harken makes lots of different traveler track. What you want is the kind they refer to as Variable Hole Spacing track. The holes for your original equipment track won't match up to the hole spacing in new track. Found that out by bitter experience.

If you talk to Jim Borne at Harken, ask him about the custom 5 to 1 / 10 to 1 two speed main sheet system he put together for me. It works great!

Can't help on jib sheet car placement - too many variables - ya gotta work that out on the water. Basically, move the cars back and forth until the headsail breaks more or less evenly from top to bottom. Something to think about for the future would be upgrading the Genoa Cars to the Garhuer E-Z Glide system. They work great on our 33.

Just to make your day, have you given any thought to replacing the standing rigging? What I learned is that rod rigging is kinda funny, and it's difficult to determine when it should be replaced. What I was told by the Yard experts, was that its best to just replace it at reasonable intervals. No doubt there are lots of opinions on what a "reasonable" interval might be, but if your standing rigging is original, it's 30 years old! The general concept of "reasonable" I got from the yard experts was 15 to 20 years. The other interesting thing is that you can't really save money going to wire standing rigging because of the difference in mast fittings. I bit the bullet a few years ago and replaced the upper and lower shrouds with rod. My forestay and back stay are wire. IMHO, replacing rod rigging is not DIY!

One of the members of our Yacht Club had the unfortunate experience of having his mast come down. It was a NY 36. As I understand it, one of the upper fittings on a lower shroud failed. The mast wound up under the boat and the rigging fouled the prop. Quite a mess. I think it is probably, generally, kinda, maybe not a bad idea to do what you can to avoid ruining a day of sailing with a similar sad experience! Keep that mast upright!

Hope this helps

Mike Oxborrow
E-33 hull #25
J.P Foolish

Thanks for the tips Mike.

I have a couple of more questions about the boat.

1. Wheel
Does your wheel have play in it?

What I mean is I think the key, or the opening for the key has worn a little bit. I can turn the wheel about an inch both ways before it will engage the rudder.

2. The rigging is the original for all I know. I do know that the boat was owned by someone at ericson, then was a demo boat here at grand lake. We are the 4 th owner. The boat has been sitting for about 10-12 years and the rigging will be inspected. The forstay was replaced 10 years ago when the harken mk111 unit 1 was installed.

3. I will replace the halyards to all line if you have had no problems with the masthead sheaves, I hate wire also.

4. Are there any secret places that you have found water coming in?

We are getting about 3 inches a week in the bilge.

Does your boat take on a y water? How dry does she stay?

5. Does your bilge have a float switch, I can not locate any wires for the switch? I looked at the wiring diagram and see nothing?

6. Cockpit room.

Our capri25 had a huge cockpit and the 33 reminds me of our San Juan 24. They are both IOR designs, how do you all fair in the cockpit?

A. Trimmer placement
B. Main sheet control / traveler control
C. Spinnaker trimmer / sheet - guy
D. Helm / backstay

How does everyone fit?

I am a racer turning into a cruser, but we will race the boat in some select races with experienced crew.

7. Did you have lead in the bow?

--------------------------------------------

I am replacing the breakers in the AC side with new breakers this weekend. I have to locate wires for bilge switch, find leaks, finish the air conditioner install - we will have 6 vents thru-out. After we get the halyards done we will go sailing.

Thanks

Chris:

Re your questions:

1 - No significant play.

2 - Not sure an answer is required. If you can manage it, get the rig checked out be someone who really, REALLY knows rod rigging!

3 - OK

4 - Rain water will come in thru the mast and/or mast boot, and will be clean. If it ain't rain water, check out the drive shaft packing gland - it probably needs repacking anyway. Should be adjusted so no drips at rest - 1 or 2 drips per second when under power. On my boat, the hull/deck joint was improperly sealed at the factory and was a problem.

5 - No float switch. Gotta get to that one of these days.

6 - Usual race crew is me plus five. One on the pointy end, 1 stationed midship, 1 on mainsheet and 2 trimmers. Yes the cockpit gets a bit crowded, but it works. I generally handle the backstay. I replaced the original Rube Goldberg arrangement with a hydraulic backstay adjuster. Note: the mainsheet trrimmer is a key position! The traveler gets a lot of use on windward legs.

7 - No lead in bow. If there is some in your boat, it was probably put there to tweak the boat's I.O.R rating at some point. Down in the bow makes the measured waterline less, and thus gives the boat a more advantageous I.O.R. rating. I would suggest that you think about taking the lead out.

You are to be congratulated in finding a truly rare breed of sailboat. A performance oriented boat intended to be raced that has a quite comfortable, cruise-able interior. The generous water and fuel tankage will make other boat owners green with envy. And let's not forget that the 33 is a great looking boat!

A.C Breakers - the marine electrical code has changed since the boat was built. Make sure what you are doing will make the surveyor, and your insurance carrier, happy. I had to upgrade the main A.C breaker to a two poll breaker, which is no doubt good.

Mike Oxborrow
E-33, Hull #25
J.P. Foolish

Chris,

Mike has given great advice. A couple of more questions/comments for me, though.

Do you indeed have rod rigging? My boat has wire, though I am not sure if original. I also have no backstay adjuster.

I cannot fathom why anyone would put lead in the bow. You will want the bow as light as possible. These boat will sail best with little or no weight up there.

1" play does not seem excessive, but why not crawl into the lazarette & look at movement of the quadrant as someone wiggles the wheel? While down there grease the zerk fitting. Up top, remove the rudder shaft plate & oil the top of the shaft liberally.

Changing to all rope halyard is great, but there may be burrs on the sheaves from the wire. Buy a little extra length (5-6')in the halyard in case the line get chaffed at the ends you can have the end loop re-spliced. I would use 3/8" main & 5/16" jib. 3/8" sheets. Modern line is stronger than original even at 5/16". 3/8" is easier on the hands, though.

Did you look at the keel when it was out of the water? Could be a source of water. Add a float switch for the bilge pump.

As far as the sheets, on my boat they pass through the inner cars, back to a turning block behind the winches on the coamings , then forward to the winches.

Trim the main first. These boats are powered by the main. Traveler upwind in light air (sailing upwind), so boom is on or near centerline and second batten is about parallel to boom. Move the traveler down to spill air in heavy weather. Trim the jib to mirror the shape of the main & leave a nice "slot," while paying attention to the telltales. Upwind you will beat most boats out there with decent sail trim. Reef the main early if the wind builds. This is a lot of sail area for a boat of 9600#, so a bit tender. Not many cruisers but mostly only true racing boats have SA/D = 20 like these boats do.

Did you add a new traveler? If so, what kind? I still have the old, tired original Sheaffer. I know Mike has a nice harken traveler, which I envy.

Good luck & good sailing!

That is so cool we have hull numbers 23, 24 and 25. If I remember correctly I have 4 sticks of lead in the floor right infront of the mast, I would say 200#. the floor is in and it would be a royal pain in the butt to remove it, maybe next year? I will look at the wheel, all of the play is in the key at the wheel to column fitting, I can adjust this by having a new key machined. I will lube the gear head and oil the rudder shaft as described.

I do not know about the rod? Can you tell by sighting up the mast, I think it's all stainless wire?

The track and traveler has been updated along with all of the blocks at the mast, I don't think it's ever been used much, every thing looks new.

I ordered a 7/16 main at 110 ft and a 3/8" genoa halyard. I will call and see if I can change the sizes as described, due to ship out next week.

I will catch up on the other stuff later today, got to call my rigging supply.

Called rigging co, da guy said I need 3/8" on the forsail, went with Sampson-x some low stretch tech line for both main and jib, added extra lenth to turn halyards if chaffing occures.

Thanks guys,

CSMcKillip said:

Called rigging co, da guy said I need 3/8" on the forsail, went with Sampson-x some low stretch tech line for both main and jib, added extra lenth to turn halyards if chaffing occures.

Thanks guys,

Click to expand...

Several years ago we changed out all of the old wire/rope halyards. We have a Kenyon Spar, which was common for Ericson boats in the 80's.
Our masthead sheaves proved a bit tight for 3/8. We ended up with a couple of 3/8" up there but I can tell that there is some friction.

For the jib and main we went with 5/16" T-900 (7K # break strength...) for ultra low stretch and so much strength that the loss in strength for the knot is not significant. It holds in our clutch stoppers, too, which was a bonus.
Loren

Hey guys -- I guess I made a dangerous assumption that all 33's came out of the Ericson factory with rod rigging. My assumption may possibly be erroneous.

Chris: If your boat has wire standing rigging, ignore all my comments about rod.

Kieth: No backstay adjuster??? How the heck do you sail the boat without one? Kinda defeats the whole point of a fractionally rigged boat with a bendy mast!

How about running backstays? Anybody got them? My boat doesn't have 'em and never did. I am familiar with hull #1, which does have running backstays, so I know that they were at least at option. Maybe the rod rigging was an option. Incidentally, hull #1 is tiller steered. Any other tiller steered 33's out there?

Mike Oxborrow
E-33 Hull #25
J.P. Foolish

3/8" is on the way? I guess I will find out soon enough.

I will check on the rigging for rod, how do you tell?

I have a ronstan spar and boom. Big old stamp says so.

I have another question, how is the boat to single hand? I was thinking about this last night, with the main sheet and traveler at the companionway and the wheel in the back, is the boat just a PITA to single hand?

Sheeting while Alone

CSMcKillip said:

I have another question, how is the boat to single hand? I was thinking about this last night, with the main sheet and traveler at the companionway and the wheel in the back, is the boat just a PITA to single hand?

Click to expand...

First answer is that it's a lot easier than it is for the boats with a housetop traveler and winch.....

Perhaps not as easy as the aft traveler E-35/2, but still nice.
Our O-34 has a very similar bridge deck traveler, and we also have a factory wheel. (It would be even easier to single-hand with the stock tiller arrangement.)

Not sure what Mike does, but on my boat I have a Harken cam cleat on the main sheet and the ball-bearing action on it is so smooth that I can "snap" the main sheet in or out of that cleat while behind the wheel when I am driving.

Of course if I have to tack much, I let "Otto Von Helm" drive and I sit in front of the wheel to run the primaries, and that puts me right at the traveler anyhow. Tacking is done by reaching back and using the double-button Auto Tack feature.

Since Otto has no, um, finesse at all, things get real busy in the cockpit once those two little buttons are pressed!

Hope this helps a little. Deposit once virtual cent please...
Loren

ps: also, any time the main sheet is loaded up, it makes a very handy hand-hold in the cockpit.
pps: no one asked, but one way to get rid of about 12 feet of loose and flailing sheet, especially when jibing, is to "float" the upper multi-sheave block on a three-foot pennant to the boom bale.

Loren Beach said:

I have a Harken cam cleat on the main sheet and the ball-bearing action on it is so smooth that I can "snap" the main sheet in or out of that cleat while behind the wheel when I am driving.

Click to expand...

Me too - I can stand behind the helm and pop the main sheet in and out of the Harken fiddle/becket/cam cleat block - I really love my Harken mainsheet traveler setup

Loren Beach said:

Of course if I have to tack much, I let "Otto Von Helm" drive and I sit in front of the wheel to run the primaries, and that puts me right at the traveler anyhow. Tacking is done by reaching back and using the double-button Auto Tack feature.

Click to expand...

Ditto - it has worked for me also, but never has the boat where you really want it, but lets me get through the tack more or less square and able to adjust sheets etc. and do a respectable job at it. - Now we touch on another topic Earwax mentioned regarding the staysail, and I realize as an Independence 31 I'm spoiled, but in heavier air with just main and self tacking staysail, you really do have point and shoot sailing/tacking capabilities - pretty cool if I don't say so myself

Loren Beach said:

Since Otto has no, um, finesse at all, things get real busy in the cockpit once those two little buttons are pressed!

Hope this helps a little. Deposit once virtual cent please...
Loren

Click to expand...

I'll take one of those also...

Loren Beach said:

ps: also, any time the main sheet is loaded up, it makes a very handy hand-hold in the cockpit.

Click to expand...

agree

Loren Beach said:

pps: no one asked, but one way to get rid of about 12 feet of loose and flailing sheet, especially when jibing, is to "float" the upper multi-sheave block on a three-foot pennant to the boom bale.

Click to expand...

not sure I follow

If the boat came with rod, it exist no more, gone, all stainless wire. I got to the boat about 11:00, it's only 97 out with a heat index of 110 deg. The wife and myself sat in the comfort of the AC and ate our first lunch on board of Nauti Girl. After lunch my wife took a nap an I cleaned the diesel motor.

So another question, there is a bilge under the oil pan, I didn't have a flashlight and I did not see any of the water I was pouring on the moter going into the main bilge.

Oh where oh where does this water go.

I finished up the motor and cleaned the floor as my wife cleaned up th teak for a third time. Our sink has a small hole in it, replacment by looking online is incredibly high.

Slapped some jb weld on the hole.

Chris:

Re single handing the E-33. Actually, it's not too difficult, if your boat is properly equiped. The really tricky part is keeping the boat head to wind while you wrestle up that big, heavy main. And again keeping head to wind when you drop the main. (Incidentally, Lazy Jacks or E-Z Jacks make life a whole lot easier, main wise.) I use our autopilot the hold the course while I get the main up, and down. Without an autopilot, I think setting the main would be a bit of a challenge, especially if your main uses a bolt rope and has to be hand fed into the mast slot. (There is a lot of main - it doesn't go up either quick, or easy.) A main with slugs makes things much easier, as long as you have some means of preventing the slugs from falling out of the mast slot. I also routinely use the autopilot to steer the boat while I trim the main and genny. As Loren says, it is possible to trim the main from behind the wheel. Lock the traveler into position on centerline and leave it there. To trim the jib sheets, I use the primary winches as turning blocks and bring the sheets back to the secondaries, which are within reach from behind the wheel. Bottom line: If you have a bolt rope main, no Lazy jacks, no Autopilot -- you are going to have more of a challenge than you can imagine, IMHO. Successful single handing requires a well, and properly equipped boat, and a skipper that knows what he/she is doing, again IMHO. I should also mention docking a 10,000 pound boat in adverse conditions (brisk cross wind, adverse current, etc.), single handed, w/o help on the dock, is a whole 'nother challenge. You no doubt already know all this, so I'm preaching to the choir -- sorry 'bout that.

Mike Oxborrow
E-33 Hull #25
J.P. Foolish

Totally understand, the main has slugs, no lazy jacks, no auto pilot. So it looks like taking the ericson out alone will be down the road. I will take some crew and have the wife helm as I just see what will be involved. Wife loves to helm and we have raced together for 5 years on our Capri25, she loves to race more than I do, I like to sit back with a cold one, she loves to burry the rail.

Chris:

Ahem -- About cleaning your engine -- Yes, I know (again from bitter experience) just where everything went. No, it didn't go into the boat's bilge. There is a separate, closed bilge under the engine. The idea (apparently) is to trap the occasional oil spill there so it doesn't go into the boat's bilge, and from there into the environment when when you pump the bilge. The bad news is that you have another cleanup to do. Even worse news is that you will find access under to engine to be very close to nearly impossible (unless you have arms like "Plastic Man" from really old comic books).

My tale of woe was the result of a broken alternator bracket, which allowed the alternator to drop and impact the oil filter cartridge, and punch a hole in said cartridge, and consequently proceed to dump the entire crankcase full of oil into the closed engine bilge. Unfortunately, the engine bilge overflowed, and I did get lots of oil into the boat's bilge. This was such a bummer of an experience, that I invested in an Amsoil kit to remotely mount a much larger oil filter (actually two filters) high on the port side of the engine compartment. Loren actually towed us for most of a day while I jury rigged a way to jam the alternator in place tightly enough so that the belt would run it and the water pump. Ahh, the joys of boat ownership!

Mike Oxborrow
E-33 Hull #25
J.P. Foolish