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I had a sinking feeling

Earwax

New Viking
Bad pun, but I can laugh about it now. There are others that have it worse off than me.

My friend and I went for a day sail on the Chesapeake...just an excuse to be on the water. After we cleared the jetty at Little Creek, he started raising the main and happened to look down through the open hatch and told me that there was water in the cabin. So, he took the helm and I went below....

125487165.jpg


Yep, there's some water there. Now, this is an E31, so for the water to be this high, there must be a good amount of the stuff.
The boat came out....
125487166.jpg


And leaked for a while at the boat lift...
And leaked for a while on the stands...

125487483.jpg


But it isn't so bad because I could have been this guy...

125487490.jpg


So, in the end, I might just come out of this smelling like, uh, lillies...

125487169.jpg



Link to video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5rL3CKnKBQ
 

bayhoss

Member III
Sorry to see that you had bad luck. And happy that it happened where you could get out of the water before it became worse. Did the leak just come all at once or have you noticed any water build up

Best,
Frank
 

Emerald

Moderator
Very good you were able to make it back and get hauled in time.

If you haven't already done so, probably not a bad time to upgrade to full flange seacocks and replace all scupper lines etc...:rolleyes:
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
You don't mention the cause of the leak, but judging from the pics with the water coming from the shaft log it looks like a rotted pedro hose or stuffing box leak...
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
RE: that sinking feeling.

Dave, I carry two toilet bowl wax rings aboard for just such emergencies. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 They can be easily pulled apart as needed and can be made to conform to any odd shape around a shaft bellows or whatever. They harden when in contact with sea water and keep their molded shape, sealing a leak like a son of a gun. I see this mishap of yours as being the perfect application for a wax repair that would allow one to limp back to help. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

Sven

Seglare
Glyn,

They harden when in contact with sea water and keep their molded shape, sealing a leak like a son of a gun. I see this mishap of yours as being the perfect application for a wax repair that would allow one to limp back to help.

Under power (temporarily) or tow/sail ?

It is a great suggestion.



-Sven
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Wax rings.

Sven, That's the word on the street. I have prevented my boat from ever developing a leak by merely having the rings onboard. In a word, I've never had to use them but they're just in case. Some of you in the past though, might recall that I've speculated on this list as to whether or not forming a temporary wax seal around the prop shaft when replacing packing, with the boat in the water would be a safer way of performing that task than wrapping a rag around it and hoping that the automatic bilge pump will keep up. That method will work by the way, I have only done it that way, never having used the wax method, as I only had that thought of that after the rag and bilge pump trick. To be honest, since the introduction of modern Teflon impregnated flax and paste, the days of my changing, or for that matter, even adjusting the packing on my shaft are but a distant memory. Shucks and I was hoping some day to use those wax rings for some leak. Glyn
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hose?

Not to zoom to an erroneous conclusion without all the facts...
but the mention of the stuffing box hose here and in some other forums over the years causes me to wonder if all the rhetoric and fervor expanded on the the subject of packing material is missing an important point.
:nerd:
On any boat over, say 30 years old, that stuffing box hose needs replacing. Period. Just schedule it in at an a next regular haul out.

Heck, we all replace the other (admittedly much more accessible) engine hoses sooner than that when they start to show swelling or any other signs of deterioration.
Come to think of it, there are other threads detailing problems with leaking bilge hoses on older boats. Similar problem there with access to change them out, especially in the stern areas.

Unlike most bilge hoses, that stuffing box hose is deepest below the surface where the water pressure is greatest, however.
I know that they are always spec'd out to be the heaviest duty with multiple layers, just for that reason. There is, though, a finite life to any hose product.

Another $.02 wasted... perhaps...
:rolleyes:

Loren

ps: here is a link to a manufacturer of this specialty hose: http://www.buckalgonquin.com/pages/ProductPages/hose&clamps/hose_page.html

pps: Dave, you seem so calm and logical when writing about it...
situation must have been really... um... "exciting" at the time! :)
 
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Emerald

Moderator
Sven, not just CA, but also VT. I also thought this very strange. The evil wax toilet rings can't be sent to these two states. Is there a wax toilet ring distribution treaty we don't know about? And I thought Yanmar was the one with the crazy parts territories. :egrin:

I do like the wax ring idea and will add a pair to my emergency boat sinking kit.

We all have a set of tapered plugs on hand, preferably even by through hull groupings, e.g. plugs in the head and plugs at hand near the engine etc. and a mallet to tap them in, right? :cool:
 

Earwax

New Viking
Thanks!

Thanks for the concern folks. I didn't respond yesterday becaues I took the day off for my B-day, while the boat dried out, to do some sailing on my friend's Ultimate 24 (the same guy who noticed the cabin sole being full of water). Had a great day sailing that U24!

So, it appears that the leak came from the stuffing box hose (pedro hose?) coming loose from the stern tube! At least that's what I think it was. Somehow, the previous owner missed tightening the hose clamps enough...not sure how that happened. He is strict with the maintenance on his boats. Mark, all the parts are less than a year old, so I doubt it was part failure. I was down there today to take a closer look, but the sweat was dripping so fast into my eyes and off me that I almost filled the bilge back up. So, I had to rig up tarps to get that sun off of me. By the time I was done with that, it was getting late and a storm was rolling in.

Frank, the leak came all at once. I make it a habit to check the bilge everytime I step on board. I've never noticed any water in the bilge or a constant stream either (the pump is working!)

David, all the seacocks were replaced with full flange. The PO did a nice job with this and never skimped on a project. The surveyor liked what he saw also.

Glyn, I'll be buying some wax toilet bowl rings now...great suggestion!

Loren, thanks for the link to buckalgonquin. I've got them in favs now.

To expand on the tale a bit. After my friend took over the helm, I pulled the engine cover. No water coming in from there. Then I pulled hatch in the cockpit. I saw the ripples around the shaft (underwater) and immediately jumped down into the cabin and cycled the bilge pump to no avail. The darn thing wasn't working! The only thing I could do was to curse myself for not installing a manual pump yet, then I grabbed the bucket and started bailing out into the cockpit. This is the small bucket I use to cover the binacle with...not much water was moving with each bucket, but I was bailing really, really fast! Now, rewind a few lines and remember I had removed the hatch cover in the cockpit...and was bailing right back into the bilge! Reasonably, the sense of humor on the boat was at somewhat of a low point, so my friend calmly reminded me that the hatch was open (it did make for a great laugh afterwards!) I closed the hatch and continued bailing all the while looking for something larger than that little bucket. When I crapped out, we swapped places and the first thing he saw was the trashcan. Luckily it has flat sides. He was able to get ahead of the water coming in and we swapped a few more times until we got to the lift. We were amazed at how much water the bilge on that boat holds because it drained for about a half hour. Loren, I don't know if was upbringing, the training in the Navy, or just knowing that if I freaked out, the boat would have been on the bottom that kept me somewhat calm. It was "exciting" to say the least, but I've never been one to go into "movie panic mode" where the actors just loose their freakin minds. I also remember that Glyn told me that my particular boat had the shaft tube break loose and those folks made it back into port safely...my problem wasn't as severe as theirs. So, Invictus sits on the hard at Cobb's awaiting new packing and a fresh bottom job (that I was going to put off until fall). I also want to redo the boat lettering that I kinda hosed up on.

I'll keep you posted on how the job goes. I'll probably have some questions coming soon!
 

Sven

Seglare
Are you a vessel assist member ? They or the CG would probably have come with serious pumps if called and local.

Glad to hear it ended well !
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
I looked at the hose on my stuffing box today and it appears to be wet exhaust hose. Don't know how much different that is from the Buck Algonquin hose but it's what the yard installed when they replaced the shaft coupling, cutless bearing and cleaned and repacked the stuffing box. The hose that came off was leaking and close to giving out completely.

You'll have to pull the prop shaft to replace the hose so that would be the time to check and replace the cutless bearing too.
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Wax rings

I too used to keep a couple of wax rings aboard in my emergency supplies - which fortunately I never needed to use.

But have many of you used wax rings for their intended purpose? I had occasion 10 years ago to redo a bathroom in my home, and had to remount the toilet, using a wax ring to make the seal. When I was done I was absolutely dumbfounded that there was no way to see what I had done and check whether it had worked! That thing is buried inside the base of the toilet, and there is no way to check that you actually made a water and air tight seal when you press it home. How unsatisfying!!! On a boat when you caulk something you can always see exactly how well you are doing, and even check when you are done with a hose to see that you got it right. The only sign that the wax ring did not take is when the bathroom floor around your toilet beings to delaminate from the leak. Yuck.

Back on topic, replacing the stuffing box hose was on my list of things to do when the boat reached 20 years old. (Though in this case it seems that the problem was just being check for tightness, not failure.)
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Wow, Dave.
"Grace under pressure."
Remember your navy DC training? I missed an assignment to Fire Control school but did sent to ABC warfare school.
:rolleyes:

Loren
(who got assigned to the DC staff on a little navy shore base, thru no fault of his own)
 

toddbrsd

Ex-Viking, Now Native American
Wow, Dave.
"Grace under pressure."
Remember your navy DC training? I missed an assignment to Fire Control school but did sent to ABC warfare school.
:rolleyes:

Loren
(who got assigned to the DC staff on a little navy shore base, thru no fault of his own)

What is really impressive is that he found time to take a picture. Cell phone no doubt!!!
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
But have many of you used wax rings for their intended purpose? I had occasion 10 years ago to redo a bathroom in my home, and had to remount the toilet, using a wax ring to make the seal. When I was done I was absolutely dumbfounded that there was no way to see what I had done and check whether it had worked! That thing is buried inside the base of the toilet, and there is no way to check that you actually made a water and air tight seal when you press it home. How unsatisfying!!! On a boat when you caulk something you can always see exactly how well you are doing, and even check when you are done with a hose to see that you got it right. The only sign that the wax ring did not take is when the bathroom floor around your toilet beings to delaminate from the leak. Yuck.

Actually when reinstallating a commode the wax ring should crush a bit when the commode is pressed down on it. I usually shoot for 1/4" of space with the commode sitting in place and then settle the commode into place with weight and gentle slight rocking. If the commode just sits on the wax ring and doesn't settle in you likely need a "tall" wax ring to achieve a good seal. It amazed me the first time I removed one but that wax ring does a great job. Old tech but very effective.

RT
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Actually when reinstallating a commode the wax ring should crush a bit when the commode is pressed down on it. I usually shoot for 1/4" of space with the commode sitting in place and then settle the commode into place with weight and gentle slight rocking. If the commode just sits on the wax ring and doesn't settle in you likely need a "tall" wax ring to achieve a good seal. It amazed me the first time I removed one but that wax ring does a great job. Old tech but very effective.

RT

Yup - that old technology is very effective. But it's the fact that the installation is unverifiable that bugs me!
 

Earwax

New Viking
Buck Algonquin

I checked today and the hose is Buck Algonquin. I went down after work to pull the stuffing box apart and realized that I left my spanner wrench at home...ugh. I'll be back again tomorrow to try again.

Any thoughts on Super B Gold bottom paint?

I went through both the surface and subsurface DC and firefighting schools. The ship I was on (USS Yorktown CG 48) had 1 class A fire and 1 progressive flooding while I was onboard...both were my duty days. I was the duty Electronics Tech as well as the duty Electrician, so I was a 'first responder.' Heck, on Invictus, I knew where the water was coming from and that it theoretically couldn't come in any faster, AND that we were able to throw more water overboard than was coming in...so, why not take a photo of my boat taking on water? I was getting pretty darn wore out by that time anyways so that one photo I posted was the only non-shaky one I took.

I will only use wax rings on toilets from now on. I installed a toilet in my fiancee's condo earlier this year with one of those foam/rubber rings...didn't like it a bit. At least with the wax you can feel the pressure of the wax squeezing down. The rubber just didn't feel right.
 
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