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'Clunky' Sound in Rudder

symbiosis

New Member
Was at the helm of a friend's Ericson 38 a few days ago (I own a Tayana 37) and kept hearing a clunking sound under my feet, especially if I turned the wheel quickly. I crawled down and looked at the quadrant, which by way of a cursory inspection, looked good and did not appear to be slipping. Had someone work the helm back and forth and pinpointed the sound to the fiberglass sleeve that channels the rudder post through the hull.

I assume it is a worn bushing or some such. We're planning a trip in a few weeks time on this boat, including about a 30-hour offshore leg.

Is this something to be concerned about?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Most any boat from the 80's could have some play between the rudder shaft and the bushing material inside the frp tube. Although our '88 does not, that might be more due to our light usage of the boat each season and not related to the years.
Sounds like something to take care of at the next regular haul out -- drop the rudder and replace or insert some shim material. There are past threads on this here.
One thing I would do before heading out for sea is to check the steering cables and the turning blocks they run thru.
(Not due to the brand of boat, but just something to do after a couple of decades on any boat with cable wheel steering.)

I wish you a safe and fun trip.
:)

Loren
 

Shadowfax

Member III
On my 34 there is a grease fitting in the fiberglass tube. Don't know if your friends has one, but if there is one I'd grease it up. Can't hurt.
 

John Butler

Member II
There is a thread in the forums on adding shim material for the rudder post on an E38.

I had (maybe still have, I only heard it once) a clunking related to turning the wheel that only occurred when we were in relatively heavy weather for the Chesapeake. I never diagnosed the source of the problem. I replaced my rudder this winter and do not think additional shim material was needed. The post seemed snug enough to me in the tube. However, I noticed that there is about 1/2" of vertical play in the rudder post. On the hard, there is about 1/2" above the quadrant before the deck flange. In the water, there is enough buoyancy in the new rudder to push the quadrant up to the deck flange and the 1/2" space is below. I wonder if the 1/2" vertical play is what produced the clunking noise on my boat. Next haul out, I plan to install a delrin shim in that space to eliminate the vertical play.

John
 

windjunkee

Member III
Clunking sound in rudder

We had the clunking sound in the rudder on Voice of Reason and found two things -- play in the tube and bent S/S bolts and stripped bolts in the brass packing gland.

The boat is out of the water right now and we're working on the bottom, prop shaft and rudder. Our fix for the rudder was as follows:

For the tube, we drilled several holes on the underside of the sleeve and injected a mixture of epoxy and graphite. This squeezed into the shaft sleeve creating a "bearing" around the rudder shaft. It had to be sanded smooth once it set up, but there is no play in the rudder at all now.

Second, we removed the brass cap and had it cleaned up. We replaced the packing material and filled the drill holes with epoxy and silica, then redrilled and re-tapped the holes. On the brass cap, we added several more bolt holes so that there are now 6 bolts holding it down, rather than the previous 4. We don't have to crank as hard on the bolts to secure it now.

The result is a smooth turning rudder with no wobble and no play. We were taking quite a bit of water through the rudder tube and we hope this fix will stop that also, but she is still in the yard right now.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason, E-32-2
Redondo Beach, CA
 

Lawrence B. Lee

Member III
Bumps in the night

FWIW

This sounds way more simple than what folks are suggesting but one of the little u-bolt clamps that hold the cables wrapped around the quadrant could be the culprit. One of mine got turned a bit and was rubbing on something or other until I reset it.

Larry Lee
Annabele Lee
E32-200
Savannah, GA
 

Erich

Member II
We had an occasional "clunking" sound in our E34 rudder. The solution was actually quite simple. Looking at where the grease fitting is, I though that the top of the rudder post could use some lubing. I couldn't see that pumping grease in the fitting would easily fill the sleeve up to the top of the post. I put some thick oil around the top of the post and let it seep around the bushing while turning the rudder back and forth. Problem solved. Of course I did the simple stuff after doing many of the harder things. At least I know the everything else is okay too. The oil I used was "Phil's Tenatious Oil" - found in many cycling shops.
Regards
 

jreddington

Member III
Yes, there are threads about fixing this. Unfortunately, putting some grease in the fittings now will not help since the wear has already occurred on that lower bearing. Even if greased regularly, this fit is eventually will loosen.

The "best" solution is the process others have descibed injecting epoxy. But it is a tricky job.

I used the technique of dropping the rudder and putting one wrap of bronze shim stock around the post, then slipping the rudder back up. Worked like a charm.

Have seen posts suggesting Delrin as the shim stock. However, another E owner in my yard tried that and gave me the advice that Delrin seems to "hang-up" as you try and slip it it back up.

To select the proper shim stock thickness, use a dial indicator or other measurement device to measure the play fore and aft. Then use shim stock about half that measurement.

You cut the material by scoring with a box knife, then flexing back and forth. Or you can use tin snips. Then use a file to deburr the edges.

Unfortunately, there seems to be nowhere to buy the few inches of bronze stock you need. I ordered feet of it I think in three different thicknesses to make sure I could get a tight fit.

I still have some so if you go this way, drop me a private message with your address and what thicknesses you may need. If I have the right thickness, I can drop it in the mail to you.
 
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