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Removing a fuel tank

Avi

Junior Member
I have a 1976 Ericson 27 with a leaking fuel tank. I need to replace it but it is too big for the opening in the lazarette so i have to cut it up and remove in pieces. Before I go drilling and sawing the tank I want to make sure I am not going to explode. The tank is empty and I don't smell much fuel but I am wondering if there is any precautionary steps I can take to make sure there are no fumes in there that can go bang! Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
 
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bayhoss

Member III
Fuel burns, Fumes explode. disconnet the lines make certain that no fuel / water mix enters the water that the boat is in and fill and drain and fill and drain and fill and drain. And.. then fill and drain.

Best,
Frank
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
Are you sure the tank cannot be removed through the lazarette? I thought that about the tank on my 30+, but after removing the manual bilge pump and some careful thought on how to manipulate/rotate the tank around I was able to get it out. It was a tight fit but it was possible. You might have to remove any fuel fittings attached to the tank first.
 

Avi

Junior Member
I have measured the large side of the tank and it is about 2" larger then the openning.

I plan on washing it out with degreaser first. I have also read about guys putting in some Dry Ice, which melts to C02 and is suposed remove the oxygen. Has anyone tried or heard of this?

And, yes. I am very aware the gas fumes explode :). It scares the crap out of me.

Thanks,
Avi
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Removing your tank, Boom!

Avi, I have no idea what I'm talking about so please, please, please seek professional advise before starting but I remember watching a fire safety demonstration at work years ago. The fireman poured a capful of gasoline into a quart glass bottle, swirled around and poured out. He then washed the bottle out, say......10 times in soapy water and proceed to hold a lighter to the neck of the bottle. The result was a blue flame-out that flew into the room 3-4 inches. He did it over and over again with the same result. He said he could continue his flame-out demonstration until his arm got tired and he would still be able to ignite the vapors long afterwards. Well that demonstration stuck in this boys head and I'd be veeeery leery of doing anything such as you suggest without many professional and verifiable opinions. Better yet, pay someone who does this for a living, make sure he's bonded and insured. Are you beginning to see a pattern here? Good luck, very good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

bayhoss

Member III
Avi, degreaser may not be a good idea. They tend to be very flammable themselves. They by nature are very thin and prone to producing fumes. Let me second the motion to get someone who is in this business and has insurance to do this one.

Best,
Frank
 

exoduse35

Sustaining Member
An aluminum tank is a bit safer to work with than steel as the real danger is a spark igniting the fumes. The proper procedure is 1) get affairs in order 2) write last will 3) prey Then use a low speed drill that is VERY sharp (cobalt or titanium) In a small whole saw. Use plenty PLENTY! of lubricant. S spark will not ignite a liquid, so if a spark were generated by the bit into the lubricant it will not ignite if if extinguishes before it reaches air and the fumes. Work slowly! A slow speed (Best by hand with one of those egg beater crank drills) will allow the heat to dissipate and further reduce the chance of a spark. Once there is a hole large enough to get a pair of sheers in cut the tank apart by hand or a pair of pneumatic snips. DO not use an electric anything as the motor inside it generates sparks. It is also a good idea to drill into the side of tank after filling it with water. The water above the cut will push out the fumes and extinguish any spark from within. Hope this helps if you choose to do it yourself. If it doesn't YOU DO NOT KNOW ME! (Yes I have done this and survived) Edd:egrin:Good Luck
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
My tank was also longer than the lazarette opening, but the thickness (height) of the tank would fit through. I say remove all the fittings, free the tank from whatever hold down screws or bolts it may have and try to manuever it into a position where it will fit through. I had to also do this with the deck that sat on top of the tank and supported the hot water heater; I discovered there is only one way it will come out and go back in. I would only try to cut the tank up as a last resort...
 

outahere

Member II
I pulled what appeared to be the origional gas tank (16 X 10 x 24,Monel?) out of my 1971 E 27 and was able to work it out of the foreward end of the hatch. It appears to be a little wider there. I disconnected the exhaust hose for a little more wiggle room and it wasn't easy but it came out. Cutting into anything that has gasoline fumes in it is really too dangerous to try.
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I've had to cut up a fuel tank to get it out and it scared me
sh**less. I would advise you get a pro to do this, but if not, there
are some precautions you can take. First fill the thing with water
and then drain completely. Then get some compressed air and blow
the thing dry, for at least five minutes or more. Then before you start
in drilling and cutting, fill it full of argon and let the tap run. The idea
is to take away the oxygen and prohibit combustion. Crossing your
fingers and saying some prayers might help too.

Martin
 

exoduse35

Sustaining Member
after re reeding my earlier post I feel I need to clarify... Both the dry ice and argon gases will replace the oxygen if there is a sufficient quantity. However I recommend that you use water because the amount in the tank is readily apparent. Fill the tank with water and leave it full while drilling. Keep the water level above the top of the hole until drilling is complete. You will probably need to run a garden hose into the tank once it is pierced as the water will begin to flow out. This will happen with both gasses as well and that is the problem as they are both as invisible as air and there is no sure way to KNOW the volume of gas that is actually in the tank. Water will make a mess and be like playing in front of a fire hose, but you will be able to tell if the water volume becomes too low. KEEP electrical stuff away, and be prepared for the shower!
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
I've replaced the tank on my E32 twice in 19 years and it is a tight squeeze and a bit of a twist through the lazarette, but it did fit.

Given the infrequency with which we hear about tanks having to be cut out of Ericsons of any size, I think yours may have been designed to squeak through the lazarette somehow, but if you're sure it doesn't, it might end up being easier and safer to take the engine out and place it in the cabin while you remove and replace the tank.

Have you considered putting a couple of big clamps on the tank and crushing it a bit to get it to fit through the lazarette? With a clamp dogged down tightly on either side of the tank, hitting the side of the tank with a hammer might get it to collapse to the point at which it will fit through the lazarette.
 

Avi

Junior Member
Are you guys trying to tell me that this is not such a good idea...

This morning, I have a whole new prospective on life. Mainly, I intend to continue with it.

Thank you all for your help. I will try to wiggle it out. If I can't, I will find a professional and make sure I am not on the dock when he is doing his thing.

Thanks again, everyone!
 

Avi

Junior Member
I did it

Well, I considered all my opintions and eventually decided to cut the tank because there was no way to get it out unless i destroyed my cockpit. I drained all the fule out of the tank the I released two fire extinguishers in the tank ane did my thing with the Sawzall. It worked fine. This was an aluminum tank so the risk of spark was already very small. Releasing the fire extinguishers through the main fill fitting gave me the extra measure of safety.
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Looks like my fuel tank is the problem on my boat now

Looks like my fuel tank is the problem on my boat now. Full of sludge, no fuel comes out. I am probably looking at removing and possibly replacing the tank. I am glad I did a search and found this valuable thread. As far as I know it is the original 37 year old steel diesel fuel tank on my E-27.

A few more new questions though.

1. My tank is steel and does not leak. It is full, about 14 gallons of diesel. Do you all think there is any possibility of saving it and getting it cleaned / polished by a tank cleaning service?

2. I talked to my local Yanmar mechanic and he said it may be salvageable if we can remove it and clean it out by sloshing some clean fuel around in it, turn it upside down to get all the sludge out.

3. If I must replace it, what is the logical replacement? Plastic, aluminum or steel?

4. Does anyone know what the tank looks like inside? Are there baffles that it would make it hard to get the sludge out?

5. I tried poking a small dowel / stick into the valve that the fuel line attaches to see if I could get it unclogged. It seems to me that there must be a pipe inside that bends down to the bottom of the tank. That would make it hard to get any kind of a small snake in there to clear it. I do have a very small drain snake that I got from Harbor Freight. I wonder if that's worth a try.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated from all of you that have been through this.

Any photos would also help.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Bad luck, but a bit better to have a tank problem back at your dock rather than offshore somewhere.
As noted elsewhere here, the preferred material for a diesel tank is 5000 series aluminum.
Steel is not recommended. Some plastics are indeed sold and used, but I have no idea what specific types and how insurers view that idea.
I recall reading somewhere that the better polishers will put a hose with a nozzle down inside and spray pressure diesel into it to stir up the sediment while constantly drawing out diesel and filtering it. Hearsay, though, and no personal experience with "polishing."

A clean-out port sounds like a good addition no mater what material you choose. There are past threads here on adding such a port.

Best,
Loren
 
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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
What to do first with my tank.

Jeff, Contact Dwyn Hendrickson at 310.722.1283. He has a fuel polishing business and I used his services years ago. That said, I recently saw him in Marina del Rey driving around in his old white Chevy pickup. Breaking news, go to http://www.scribd.com/doc/17138240/Mariner-77Indd and scroll down to page 8, you'll see his little ad. I just called him to make 100% sure and he's the same jovial guy I remember. He'll polish your fuel with the tank in place so don't do anything without calling him first. There are baffles in your tank that he can get around and there is a pick up tube that extends almost to the very bottom of the tank. He removed all the fuel from my tank and poured in a gallon of lacquer thinner (no kidding) to dissolve all the tars stuck to the bottom of the tank and using a soft copper tube with compressed air, he dislodged the crud and bent the tube to get around the baffles. With that he removed the thinner and replaced it with the diesel at which point the polishing began. Hint: Dwyn is a very lovable, funny and chatty character with plenty of time to spend on you at the present. Do like I did, ply him with food and beverage and keep him engaged in conversation. What he estimated to take an hour or so it ended that he spent up three hours or more to do. The brownish deck-stain looking fuel ended up like mineral spirits in appearance when he'd finished. Add to that, he's a hoot to be with and talk to that you'll be tempted to double his fee just for the entertainment value. Go for it and let me know how it turns out. Glyn
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Jeff,

To properly clean your old tank, you need an access port . Sloshing
fuel around in it won't do a proper job. The sludge needs to be
scraped off. My advice would be to fabricate a new one out of
aluminum and be done with it.

Martin

PS Sorry you had a rough day on the water last weekend.
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Thanks for the replies Loren, Glyn & Martin,


Glyn, I must say that your suggestion and optimism that it can be polished is the most comforting. Do you really think it's worth the try on a 37 year old steel tank?


Martin, are you just talking about fabricating a new access hole or a whole new tank?
 
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