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replacement engine on a E 35 MK II

TS Farley

Member II
Would anyone have advice on what would be a good replacement engine for a recently acquired 1975 E 35 MK II? The current original Westerbeke is working well, but exsanguinates oil into the bilge. The mechanic's advice is to just keep using it until it gives out.....he can't see where the leak is. I don't know whether to find another mechanic or another engine, but I'm not keen on the risks to life, limb and ship that would be incurred with continuing with the status quo (not to mention the grunge in the bilge that gets pumped overboard.)

Vivian Morrow
on
TS Farley
Canoe Cove
BC
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I am currently mired in an engine replacement in my E38. I'm simply replacing the old with a good used unit. The project is a big one and not for the faint of heart. I would agree that leaking oil is NOT acceptable.

The mechanic probably doesn't like working on sailboats, not many do, and isn't looking too hard. The oil can be dyed and the leak found with UV light if you can find a mechanic that will do that. The problem is that if something inaccessible like the oil pan is leaking it will cost a lot of money to repair it. If the engine is in good shape this may be worth it.

Its possible the oil pan, etc. has corroded through on the bottom. The engine I removed was very crusty when it came out and all in places I couldn't see when installed.

When my engine went bad I looked hard at Betamarine for a repower. They have a good presence here on the East Coast, the price was excellent and they could provide me with a complete engine that was configured with the same engine mount pattern as my old unit. This is a very big deal. Having a drop in installation on a repower cuts the labor, etc. in half.

Good luck with it. RT
 

TS Farley

Member II
Hi Rob,

Thanks for the response.

Repair or replacement of the engine was something that was accounted for when we acquired TS Farley. We'd like to keep/repair the original engine if that turns out to be a possibility because of the general higher quality of the older products vs the planned obsolescence of newer products. (I am still lamenting the loss of my grandparents washer/dryer whenever our new units break down.) And, it's great to be able to restore these beautiful old boats, isn't it.

I think I'll take your suggestion and find another mechanic to diagnose the problem. I took a diesel engine maintenance course recently and there are some mechanics connected with the course that would be good.

Thanks again and good luck with your replacement project!

Vivian
 

ralph roddam

Member I
new engine

I have a E35 mkII.The original atomic four was replaced in 1992 with a Yamnar 3GM30F,its in the cabin,great for acess.I would recommend the latest Yanmar,

Ralph Roddam, 1976 E35, Another fine mess, Chula Vista ,ca .
 

TS Farley

Member II
Thanks for the info. I'll look into it. My E 35 is a 1975 so the layout would be the same. The po put in a hot water tank next to the starboard access, so it is a bit tight to get at the engine. I may "delete" the tank.
 

Touchrain

Member III
I just replaced my old Universal (30 years old and going strong until it had a fatal oil failure and seized) on our 1980 Ericson 38. Did all the work myself, although I brought in a pro to help with new mounting holes and initial alignment.

I chose a Universal M-35b. About the same horsepower as the old one. Friend of mine with an E-38-200 picked the M40b and seems to like it a lot.

I picked the Universal for two reasons: The key dimensions were the same as the old one and meant I did not need to make any changes to the bed. Also, I like glow plugs. I sail year round and those babies allow me to start in about .5 seconds. Westerbeke also had a very attractive price on the 35 last fall, although not on the 40.

It did require me to replace the entire exhaust system since they had gone from 1 1/2 to 2-inch over the years. Electricals were a breeze with the harness. I used the opportunity of an empty engine compartment to clean, organize, eliminate old wiring, and paint. I also replaced all the old hose.

So far, so good, although it looks like I will need to reprop. Tranny ratio is different and I'm over propped. Oh, yes, tranny comes with the engine.
 

TS Farley

Member II
Are glow plugs not standard in the Universal, Westerbeke and Yanmar. Can they be added/or not to any model?

I have a feathering prop which would be nice to keep, now that I've gotten used to the extra prop-walk. That is helpful to know that the tranny will be new and potentially not compatible. Hmmm....a new exhaust system too.

How wonderful to be able to count an engine replacement as a DIY accomplishment. That's great. Unfortunately I can only boast a DIY replacement of spreader boots and Harken wheels.

While you were cleaning out the empty compartment, did you come across a good way of getting rid of residual diesel in the bilge? Don't ask how it got there; suffice it to say it wasn't me that put it there. So far all brands of bilge cleaners haven't dealt with the eau de diesel.
 

Touchrain

Member III
Not all diesels have glow plugs. Current Yanmars, I believe, do not. Some of my friends love them, others have had some difficulty starting when cold in winter. I like being able to preheat. As far as the cleaning, I don't know of any magic bullet. I just scrubbed with Simple Green a lot, but then I did not have a particularly strong smell of oil in there. I suppose it is possible that once you get it clean (light sand for adhesion) and then paint, the coat of bilge paint seals it in. But I'm not an expert on that. Finally, the bed on your boat might not match up, which would lead me to check out other options, as well.Installing the engine took a fair amount of research and a couple calls to the local distributor, and I did not quit worrying about destroying it until I ran the boat across the bay. There was more relief than joy on that first run.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
My problem with Westerbeke/Universal is their parts pricing is RIDICULOUS. I just went through R&R the old Universal in my boat and I can tell you that Westerbeke marks up the parts 400%. Imagine a $50 Kubota headgasket that they put in a Westerbeke package and charge $200 for. Obscene. I fought for and found out the exact model of Kubota that Universal marinized. The parts are dirt cheap from Kubota.

That is the other real advantage of Betamarine. They tell you upfront what industrial engine was used and also where to get parts cheap, such as Napa crossreferences, etc.

RT
 

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
My problem with Westerbeke/Universal is their parts pricing is RIDICULOUS. I just went through R&R the old Universal in my boat and I can tell you that Westerbeke marks up the parts 400%. Imagine a $50 Kubota headgasket that they put in a Westerbeke package and charge $200 for. Obscene. I fought for and found out the exact model of Kubota that Universal marinized. The parts are dirt cheap from Kubota.

That is the other real advantage of Betamarine. They tell you upfront what industrial engine was used and also where to get parts cheap, such as Napa crossreferences, etc.

RT
Rob,

You are right about the obscene mark-ups. But you list the remedy right there. By going to a Kubota dealer (pretty widespread) you can get reasonably priced parts. BTW, Volvo marine parts are way overpriced, too. I don't know about Yanmar.

I think the Beta might be a marinized Kubota, also. Therefore I would swap either a Beta or another Universal if I had it to do. Look for the same mounting pattern, external dimensions of the engine, exhaust output/muffler connection & propshaft connections, electrical connections & price shop for the best deal on a Beta or Universal.
 

Emerald

Moderator
Couple thoughts in general.

A comment was made regarding Yanmars and glow plugs and cold starting. I have hands on with 4 different Yanmars, none of which had glow plugs - SB12, YSB8, 2QM15, and the 3GM30F. My old 2QM15 could be a bear to start cold, but it would ultimately go (have gotten it going around 30 F). My 3GM30F always has started well, and I'd say the lowest temperature I've started it in was probably around 30 F, perhaps a few degrees colder. The YSB8 I've played with has also started well, but it's on a friends boat and probably the lowest temperature has been in the mid 50's in conjunction with a spring launch or winter haul out.

I have had great luck with reliability on the Yanmar, however, the few parts I've had to buy have always seemed painfully overpriced, especially when one realizes the popularity of the 3GM30 series, for example, $40.99 for a thermostat and $33.50 for the thermostat switch (sourced from Torresen) I would expect to pay about half that for those parts. Not only do I feel you pay through the nose on Yanmar parts, but they have one of the ugliest locked down networks of distribution I've ever come across. There is no aftermarket source of Yanmar parts and dealers can't even sell to all folks based on geography. This might be great to bolster the dealer side of the network with locked down territories to make sure business comes home so to speak, but it's a real slam on the end user unless you like burning money as it results in absolutely zero price competition and total factory control. The only thing that has made this tolerable to me is the engines have been reliable enough that I haven't needed to repair/replace much, but if they consumed parts, it would be a real drag. Given the reliability I've had, I guess it kinda makes it a toss up in the end. :rolleyes:
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Rob,

You are right about the obscene mark-ups. But you list the remedy right there. By going to a Kubota dealer (pretty widespread) you can get reasonably priced parts. BTW, Volvo marine parts are way overpriced, too. I don't know about Yanmar.

I think the Beta might be a marinized Kubota, also. Therefore I would swap either a Beta or another Universal if I had it to do. Look for the same mounting pattern, external dimensions of the engine, exhaust output/muffler connection & propshaft connections, electrical connections & price shop for the best deal on a Beta or Universal.

Keith,
The problem with "going to a Kubota dealer" as I have found out is if you do not have the Kubota part number it can be very difficult to get what you need. The local dealers are all "tractor" shops. Unless you know the model number of the TRACTOR your engine was in, then you are SOL. It was especially difficult as I was looking for parts to an older engine no longer made.

Going up the Kubota heirarchy you will find there are two Kubota "sources". The industrial engine supplier and then the actual Kubota equipment suppliers. They do not always talk to each other regardless of parts compatibility. I finally found a distributor in Florida that knew what my engine was and had the parts, only he couldn't sell to me as I was out of his area. I had little luck locally or even regionally so I talked the FLA shop into a COD order.....

The reason I really was impressed with Betamarine is they GIVE you the parts list with all the Kubota numbers already on it, ALL filter/belt/alternator cross-references, etc. They will also supply the engine with the same mounting pattern as the old one. Makes installing it a snap. The price I was quoted for one was very, very good.

Universal, though good, is back to the old Westerbeke crap again. One would have to be thousands of dollars cheaper than a Beta or a Yanmar to turn my head.

RT
 

TS Farley

Member II
All this information is really helpful. On other sailing forums Beta Marine receives a lot of praise for the same reasons listed in this thread. One negative comment from only one person was that it was difficult to start in cold temperatures.

Beta Marine seems to be gaining recognition on the west coast as well as the eastern seaboard as one of the well established diesel engine installation companies here has just added it to their product list.

It warrants a call to Beta Marine with the specs of the existing engine, exhaust connection, prop shaft connection, and electrical and inquiries regarding glow plugs.

Thanks all.
 

Touchrain

Member III
Clarification please, I said several of my friends had difficulties starting Yanmars in the quite cold temperatures. I did not reference Beta and have no knowledge of them, other than to have heard good things about them, as I also have for Yanmars. Nice sales tool by Beta to offer parts options. Guess I better start researching Kubota parts.
 

TS Farley

Member II
Touchrain,

Not to worry........the reference to difficulty starting Beta Marines cold was not your mention of Yanmars. It was on a thread on a different website and was definitely about Beta Marine engines. Hence the query about glow plugs.

That is the only negative comment I've come across, but an important one. I'm thinking of those foggy early morning starts in the Broughtons......it sure would be nice to have the engine start easily so we could make it to the couple of minutes of slack tide in the rapids!
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Our Kubota-based Universal three cylinder diesel starts right up even when temps were in the high 20's several months ago. I did have to glow plug it for about 15 to 17 seconds at those temps, though. We have just a little under 2000 hours on our '88 engine.

I would note that engines with glow plugs have a very different cylinder head design than the ones without, like the Yanmar's. (Not better or worse, but different.)

Trivia: the reliable Kubota short block is used in Universal, Betamarine, and Phasor small diesels, sold all over the world.

As to any given engine having a starting problem, it is always possible... if that particular engine has a mechanical problem, no matter what brand or head design.

My .02 worth,
Loren
 

TS Farley

Member II
Trouble fixed

Just submitting a follow up on what the solution ended up being. Another mechanic took a look and in 5 minutes found the leak. But the "oil" leak turned out to be a "diesel" leak. It was easily fixed and we're up and running again, with a sweeter smelling cabin.:)
The information submitted by all re replacement engines will be great for a reference thread.
 
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