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plow anchor for E25-E27

davisr

Member III
Would have posted this question on the recent discussion regarding the Anchor Poll thread. Since this is a specific question, though, I have chosen this format. I am outfitting my E25 for modest coastal cruising and know that it would be smart to include a plow-type anchor in my anchor inventory (I'm thinking specifically about a 14 lb. Delta). The only problem is that there is little-to-no room at the bow for an anchor roller. I remember reading a thread somewhere on this forum about someone installing an anchor roller on the bow of his E27. I recall that he said it was a tight fit. I made a copy of the picture back when I read the thread, and I am posting it here to illustrate just how tight it is. Understandably, the E25 space is even tighter. I include a picture of my own bow with the pulpit removed.

My question is this: Have others found a way to use the plow anchor without having it suspended from an anchor roller? I have hanging hooks on the pulpit for the Danforth, so that part of the problem is settled. Not sure, though, about the plow. Do some store it in a locker or stow it somewhere secure on deck?

Thanks for the help,
Roscoe
 

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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Anchor mounting on the E25.

Roscoe, I fitted a Windline URM-1 anchor roller http://www.windline.com/index.php?act=viewdetails&mod=131 to the starboard side of the stem head fitting as you show in the sample photos. Please note that it's almost two feet long, necessary to get it away from the bow but too long to attach to the small raised area of the bow. The workaround for me was to fabricate a teak block that the back end of the roller was bolted through to the deck. Of course in order to do this I had to remove and reglass the holes for the running lights which I relocated to the top rail of the bow pulpit using an Aqua Signal all in one light. In my case, I stowed a 22# Bruce anchor there in the upside down position. I secured it around the Aqua Signal light and the flukes with a 10" loop of 1/2" shock cord and stainless steel hog rings. The trip line hole on the anchor aligned perfectly with the rollers securing pin making it all a very secure and easy to deploy system. The light didn't take the load, it was merely a "hook" for the cord to go around. The Bruce never moved in any direction held that way and the cord removal might have added 2-3 seconds of time to dropping the Bruce. You might be able to design a method with your Delta that would work with that roller. Regardless of what you end up with, you'll need at least that length roller for the needed overhang off the bow. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

davisr

Member III
Thanks for getting in touch Glyn,

Mine boat is the E25 cb, not the plus version. You mentioned that on your E25+ you had to remove the existing bow lights. That very issue is what has led me to this. I am in the process of rewiring my boat and know that if I'm going to install a bow roller I will need to relocate the bow lights. When it comes to the anchor roller, I'm pretty sure I can fit one in there if I do what you described. What worries me, though, is that about half the anchor roller might be unsupported, since there is just not very much room on the bow. I don't know how strong these rollers are by themselves without a deck beneath them. Maybe it's the case that as long as you have the end of it through-bolted in all three, or in some cases, in all four holes, then you're okay. I just don't know.

I've looked at some pictures of those who have constructed really attractive boards/bow sprits for their anchor rollers. I've also, however, read about these things breaking off when the weather gets up. Seen some pictures of the damage. Not pretty.

Roscoe
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Lights and Anchors

Thanks for getting in touch Glyn,

Mine boat is the E25 cb, not the plus version. You mentioned that on your E25+ you had to remove the existing bow lights. That very issue is what has led me to this. I am in the process of rewiring my boat and know that if I'm going to install a bow roller I will need to relocate the bow lights. When it comes to the anchor roller, I'm pretty sure I can fit one in there if I do what you described. What worries me, though, is that about half the anchor roller might be unsupported, since there is just not very much room on the bow. I don't know how strong these rollers are by themselves without a deck beneath them. Maybe it's the case that as long as you have the end of it through-bolted in all three, or in some cases, in all four holes, then you're okay. I just don't know.

I've looked at some pictures of those who have constructed really attractive boards/bow sprits for their anchor rollers. I've also, however, read about these things breaking off when the weather gets up. Seen some pictures of the damage. Not pretty.

Roscoe

On our prior 26 footer, with the circa-'80's Perko "eyebrow" red and green lens lights on the bow, I moved the bow nav light up to the front of the pulpit. I was rebedding the pulpit legs anyway, so I had a standard red-green combo lens light, "Bicolor Aqua Signal model 25" bracket welded onto the pulpit. Boring the hole into that tough SS tube and feeding the cable was... interesting work... :rolleyes:

I then filled the old holes with thickened epoxy and gel coated over them. Lots better nav lighting for safety at night and one bulb rather than two separate ones which halved the power usage.

If you use a ss anchor bracket with enough wall thickness you should be fine... just do not cantilever it out there too far. Put a large G10/FR4 glass backing plate underneath. That what we did on our present boat.
While the "extended" bracket might not be strong enough for a stormy anchorage in extremis, it should be OK for the more sheltered places most of us are likely to visit.
Opinion rendered on the hour, deposit .02 please. And, YMMV.
:)

Regards,
Loren
 
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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Bow roller strengthening and light relocation.

Roscoe, Listen to Loren and then go back and read my post and the reference to the teak block I cut to size but most importantly, thickness. It's that block and a backing plate underneath the deck at the AFT end of the roller bracket and the through bolts at the front of the bracket that made the installation bulletproof. It also allowed me to get the overhang I needed without concern of prying the roller bracket off the deck. Think of that teak block as a very thick shim and you should get the picture. It was as thick as the difference between the deck and the elevation where the lights are. In my case, I removed the starboard, aft pulpit base and drilled a 1/2"(?) hole in the stainless with a matching one through the deck. With everything properly bedded and protected from water I put it all back together with new wires up there to a downward-facing hole I'd drilled in the rail just where the new Bicolor, Aqua Signal 25 (Loren, Thanks for jogging my memory with the model number) was to be. At the time, Aqua Signal made a well engineered bracket consisting of two inverted U-bolts that mated the light to the supplied black plastic bracket which in turn accepted the light assembly itself. Here's a link to what that bracket, still available, looks like. http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/70830...es-25-navigation-lights-from-aqua-signal.html It was all capped off with an attractive snap-on cover that left it looking like a clean, professional job indeed without the need of getting a welder out to the boat or taking the rail to him. Hope this additional info helps. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

davisr

Member III
Thanks Loren and Glyn for all the words of wisdom about lights and anchor rollers.

In terms of the latter, just to see what the E25 might look like with a lengthy anchor roller, I cut a piece of wood to 20 7/8 x 2 1/2, the measurements given in the Defender catalog for the Windline Model CR-1.

As you see, there is a limit to how far back I can situate the anchor roller over the deck, since the base of the pulpit is an obstruction. I may be wrong, but it seems that the end of the piece of wood projects too far past the bow. I'm wondering now if it would be better to downsize to a Lewmar Universal (18 inches) or a Lewmar small Bruce/Delta (15 1/4 inches).

What do you think of these pictures with the mock-up Windline Model CR-1?

Thanks,
Roscoe
 

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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Too much overhang?

Roscoe, This boy's opinion is that the overhang looks about right. Bear in mind that the chain and rode will ride a bit farther aft than the end of the board. Especially when viewed with that said, I wouldn't want the chain much more aft than that. You might want to approximate the point of the chain fall and drill a large hole, big enough to drop a length of chain through. That's what you should really be looking at, I think you'd find that very more informative. Do you think the roller assembly could have more purchase on the starboard of the stem head fitting? I can't tell for sure from the photo and can' be sure that you are losing anything where it now or if you'd gain with it on the other side. Also take into account that you might be able to move the roller aft a little bit more and over the pulpit flange base. Let's face it, once you replace it, you nor anyone else will probably never take it off for the life of the boat. Even if it did have to come off, it ain't that big a job and moving it back might gain you an inch. Glyn
 

wolly bugger

Member II
anchor roller

That is a project that I've been thinking about for my boat as well, but with the list I got now, that will not be for this year. My thought was to install the anchor roller similar to what you intend to do but have it in an angle. That will put the aft end between the 2 forward pulpit base which will be in better line with my deck pipe and the cleat opposite to where the roller is install. That might give the boat a tendency to sit at a slight angle with the wave in windy condition but I usually have access to some well protected anchorage so I don't think I need to worry about that.
Hope this help
 

davisr

Member III
Thanks Glyn and Wolly Bugger for your input,

I have placed the board on the portside because the stem head fitting is cocked slightly to starboard. It appears that this dates to the time of manufacture. In short, the portside offers the most room (what little there is of it). I hear what you're saying about having enough room on the aft end for the chain. The way I have the board situated in the picture it's pretty tight. Could probably stand to move the board forward an inch.

In terms of mounting the roller at an angle, that does indeed make sense, given the position of the deck pipe and thus chain locker. I just wonder, though, about the torque that would be on the roller when set that way.

I looked around on Google Images and found a few pictures of a Tanzer 26 with a roller platform. Looks pretty good, and would seem to offer much more support for the roller than would appear to be the case without it. A benefit of the Ericson bow design is that such a platform could be installed without having to mount the bases of the pulpit on top. At least that's how it looks to me.

What do you think?

Roscoe
 

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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Waterproofing the nav light run.

Roscoe, I forgot to mention how I keep water out of the stainless base that the nav lights wires run through. After bedding and sealing the balsa or plywood core and putting everything back together, get a roll of Rig-Rap self amalgamating tape http://www.boatersworld.com/product/MP81126963.htm?utm_medium=productsearch&utm_source=google and take several wraps of it at the top of the base where the 1" rail fits. It'll be sealed for life in there. As an added protection, use enough wire to create a service loop below deck, a loop that will draw water away from wire connections that will allow it to drip harmlessly into the anchor locker. This tape is pretty neat stuff that will only stick to itself once it's been pulled to about twice its length. It's intended for covering cotter pins but you can find many more uses for it aboard. One roll will last you three life times. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

davisr

Member III
Thanks Glyn for the reference to Rig-Rap tape. The stanchion base / stanchion joints are something I've been wondering about. The previous owner tried to seal those joints with silicone. Didn't seem to make a very good seal. Was easy to pull off by hand. Will order some Rig-Rap for this project.

Best,
Roscoe

P.S. Do you think an anchor roller platform similar to the one on the 26 footer in the picture would do the trick for an E25? Looks to me like it's a modest length - not the sort of thing that would snap off in heavy weather. Check out these pictures I found on Google Images of a Pearson Triton. Looks like the platform was too thin. Maybe that's what contributed to the failure.
 

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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Platform too thin?

Roscoe, It could have been too thin for the loads that roller saw but I would have been tempted from the get-go to have bought a much longer roller assembly, one that would have spread the load forces way farther back. What do others think? Glyn
 

Maine Sail

Member III
That anchor roller on Tim's boat broke in a rather nasty 2002 Nor'Easter while swinging on a mooring in Falmouth, ME. Knowing how nasty that storm was I would hazard a guess that a longer roller may have taken some of the deck rather than just the teak platform..

Those photos also illustrate why your anchor should NOT be left on the roller in a storm of in general left in the roller unattended while on a mooring. That platform had two rollers, not just one. One was holding a CQR, which in the surging, was caught by one of the pendants and ripped free. If the pendant does not just rip the anchor off the bow the anchor can chafe through a pendant. Either scenario is enuogh reason to not leave your anchor on the roller as a storage place..


Most rollers are not strong enough for storms. My rode is always led back to the cleat when anchoring, even in calm weather. I use it only for retrieval, after the anchor is broken free, and launching. When on the mooring I put my anchor back in the anchor locker. It's a PITA but worth it..

This was a rather robust Windline roller that was mangled during a storm while on anchor..


Note the size of the backing plate! Despite this huge backing pate the deck was still fractured. Long rollers create a good lever. Do not use your roller when anchoring in rough weather and this won't happen..

medium.jpg
 
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davisr

Member III
About a month ago I posted pictures of a mock-up anchor roller on an E25. In those pictures I had to roller pointing forward. The more I thought about it and the more I took into consideration the words of fellow E25 owner, Stephan, in Anchorage, Alaska, the more I started thinking that it would be better to mount the anchor roller at an angle. This would allow for more secure mounting on deck and would allow for a second anchor roller. One could point starboard of the bow, the other, port. Also, this would allow a fair lead to the anchor pipe. To facilitate the mounting of these anchor rollers, it seemed that a small anchor platform would be necessary.

At the request of Stephan, I have am posting pictures here of the prototype I constructed several weeks ago. This prototype is based the dimensions of the Kingston BR-22 anchor roller. Dimensions: L, 20 inches; W, 2 5/8 inches. Kingston states that 15 of the 20 inches must touch the deck. You will see in the first photo the pencil lines on the wooden mock-ups at 15 inches. I constructed the anchor platform to terminate at this 15 inch mark. You will also see in the first photo two other pencil lines at the 6 inch mark. This is where the foremost bolt must connect with the deck. Finally, note the two holes at the aft end of each anchor roller mock-up. These are where the aft bolt must connect with the deck. It is clear from the photo that if I construct this I will need to install a teak backer board, as per Glyn's suggestion, underneath the aft edge of the anchor platform.

Here are the dimensions of the anchor platform:

Aft end: 8 in.
Sides: 14.25 in
Forward end (straight-line distance, i.e., not distance of arc): 14.5 in

Dimensions of trapezoidal cut-out within the anchor platform:

Aft end: 3.5 in
Sides: 5 in.
Forward end: 2 in.
Distance of aft end of cut-out to aft end of platform: 8 in.
Distance of forward end to forward most end of arc: 2.5 in.

Final consideration:

Platform prototype is 1/4 inch plywood. Obviously, the glassed platform must be more hardy. It must not, however, be too big; otherwise, there may be issues with the roller furler, assuming you have one.

Hope that this saves you some time. Would appreciate any suggestions if you find any other way of dealing with this issue.

Best regards,
Roscoe
 

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wolly bugger

Member II
Thanks for all that info. You put a lot more thought and effort into it than I did. I didn't think I was gonna get to that project before fall but it make sense to combine it with that core repair. I don't think I'll go for the double roller. Do you want to have the option on which side to use or will you carry an anchor on each one?
In order to keep the admiral happy, I need to make sure I find a calm anchorage which we do not lack around here. I'm planing to anchor right from the roller most of the time, otherwise I'll bring the rode to the cleat.
I should get the anchor roller that I order in the next few day. I'll keep you posted of what I decide to do.
 

davisr

Member III
Given the cost, I'll definitely start with just one anchor roller. It would be nice, though, to have the second one. Allows for more options, and . . . the symmetricality of the set-up makes the boat more attractive. What type of roller did you order? Some of the ones that I looked at online were not suitable for the E25 on account of the location of the pre-drilled bolt holes.

Roscoe
 

wolly bugger

Member II
Roscoe, I forgot to mention that I drill a couple more holes in the roller so it feel more secure to the deck and had to move the navigation light. I can try to take more pictures for you next time I'm at the boat.
 

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davisr

Member III
Stephan,

Your set-up looks great, and, from I can gather, you appear to have had success with it all summer up there in Alaska. You mentioned in your message to me that you used a Lewmar double roller. Do you have the part number or dimensions for this? Also, what size is that Bruce in the picture? I ask all of this because dimensions and size are such a big issue with the amount of space available on our E25s.

Thanks,
Roscoe
 

davisr

Member III
P.S. I forgot to ask about your bowlights. That's also an issue. I don't see them in your pictures. Did you mount a single red/green on the pulpit rail as Loren and Glyn suggested?

Thanks,
Roscoe
 
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