E35-3 issues to look for?

Hello all e35-3 owners and other knowledgeable folks,
I am new to this forum having found EY.o when researching info on E35-3s. I am in the market for a new boat and found a local e35-3 offered for sale that has a lot of design features that seem to fit what I am looking for. I will be going down to take a look at her in the next few days.

Questions: Can you recommend areas that I should pay particular attention to on an e35-3? Any notable strong points to the design and weak points regarding performance? I know all boats represent compromises somewhere, but am looking for things particular to this breed.

Here is the link to the boat in question -
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...roker&&hosturl=turnermarine&&ywo=turnermarine&

I've been browsing the forum and have already found a lot of great information here. Thanks in advance for your input.

Tim

E35-3 issues

I did the same thing a few years ago. I read ever maintenance thread and looked at every link that was mentioned. I had to travel a bit to look at and eventually buy, but I knew what I was looking for. It is a project boat and so far there has been no surprises. Other than my wife has noticed that every system over haul always ends up costing about 1,200 dollars.

Any other information I have needed has come from this great group.


ml

The E35 is a great boat but is at the age that may require a bit of work that would be common for most boat this age. Here are some things I have done that are not E35 specific:

Replace all portlights and hatches
Rebed deck HW and stanchions
Buff and polish entire boat
Strip and refinish spars
Replace cabin sole
Strip hull and apply barrier coat
Replace standing rigging
Replace life lines
Replace water heater
Head and associate plumbing

Some E35 specific items would include Stress crack repairs around anchor locker. Some 35s were prone to blistering and some were not. Luckily mine was not. Original holding tank was prone to stress cracks on outer wing. If it has a hydrauic backstay adjuster, check for leaks around the upper seal. The original furler will likely be due for replacement.

Some nice upgrades I have done:

Replace galley sink and faucet with larger size
Replace folding trash door with sliding doors
Strip oiled interior and finish with varnish
Refinished binacle and installed new guard
Installed new cockpit table
All new electronics and instruments
New sails
New running rigging
New Furler

Good luck and keep us informed during your search.

E35-3 issues

Tim tell us that you did all that in years...please!

ml

4 years. Mostly during the winter. And to be honest, I have not completely re-bedded everything yet. All the rest is pretty much done. I am taking this winter off to work on the house. It has been neglected for many years.

Cordelia is happy though with her new coat of red Imron.

Crack under Mast Step

One 35-3 specific thing to look for is a crack in the "grid" under the mast step. Supposedly Ericson "reinforced" this area in later years, but our's was definitely cracked. Its not a difficult fix, but would require unstepping the mast. Theres a thread about it somewhere on the site.

We also had significant corrosion in our keel bolts, which there is a separate thread on as well.

And we think the 35-3 is a great well-rounded boat, not that most Ericsons aren't.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I appreciate the information.

We had the opportunity to take a look at her after a rainy day. The ports, windows and mast boot leak badly as the cushions on both sides of the main cabin and the v berth were soaked and the cabin sole is rotten around the mast as well as a wooden support under the sole. It appears that a lot of the things on Tim's first list (above) will need to be done to this boat.

Couldn't see any cracks in the grid. mast step plate looks new. keel bolts show only a little corrosion. Couldn't detect any leaks around the dorade vents and the deck felt solid. Evidence of cracks by caulk repairs in the anchor locker. Some deck/sailing hardware will need to be replaced as will at least some of the running rigging. All the winches need service. I am going to try to get a friend with a more experienced eye to inspect the standing rig for me, but I did not see any issues with it from a deck level view. A long list of more minor issues in the interior need attention...while it would power up, we couldn't get the radar to give any return on the display (could be user error), couldn't get a radio check reply on the VHF, couldn't get the stove to fire-up (could be user error) and the list goes on. (Worst of all, the stereo didn't work!! ) The boat has been on the market for at least 2 years and has apparently not been used during that time.

There are certainly some positives about the boat: engine runs good and is not original, sails and canvas appear to be in good shape, the head looks like it has been replaced in recent years, some extras like a nice grill, etc.

I know this is a loaded subject, but here I go anyway...
The NADA value is between $43K to $49K and Buc values it from $53K to $58K. The seller is asking $50K. I don't think she is worth anywhere near that considering the amount of money to be spent on getting her up to snuf. Yeah, I know you have very little info to go on and markets vary geographically, etc. but ...

Do any of you have thoughts on the actual value of this boat?

NOTE: Dear Mr. Seller of this boat, If your are lurking on this thread, please don't take offense at my comments and please don't provide any input to the above question.

What to Do

LastMango said:

Thanks for all the replies guys. I appreciate the information.

We had the opportunity to take a look at her after a rainy day. The ports, windows and mast boot leak badly as the cushions on both sides of the main cabin and the v berth were soaked and the cabin sole is rotten around the mast as well as a wooden support under the sole. It appears that a lot of the things on Tim's first list (above) will need to be done to this boat.

Couldn't see any cracks in the grid. mast step plate looks new. keel bolts show only a little corrosion. Couldn't detect any leaks around the dorade vents and the deck felt soild. Evidence of cracks by caulk repairs in the anchor locker. Some deck/sailing hardware will need to be replaced as will at least some of the running rigging. All the winches need service. I am going to try to get a friend with a more experienced eye to inspect the standing rig for me, but I did not see any issues with it from a deck level view. A long list of more minor issues in the interior need attention...while it would power up, we couldn't get the radar to give any return on the display (could be user error), couldn't get a radio check reply on the VHF, couldn't get the stove to fire-up (could be user error) and the list goes on. (Worst of all, the stereo didn't work!! ) The boat has been on the market for at least 2 years and has apparently not been used during that time.

I know this is a loaded subject, but here I go anyway...
The NADA value is between $43K to $49K and Buc values it from $53K to $58K. The seller is asking $50K. I don't think she is worth anywhere near that considering the amount of money to be spent on getting her up to snuf. Yeah, I know you have very little info to go on and markets vary geographically, etc. but ...

Do any of you have thoughts on the actual value of this boat?

NOTE: Dear Mr. Seller of this boat, If your are lurking on this thread, please don't take offense at my comments and please don't provide any input to the above question.

Click to expand...

I doubt that an owner as disconnected from his/her boat as the condition would imply would be checking in here, although stranger things have happened...

As to value, I recall the advice of a friend who repaired boats and later became a full time surveyor:
Find the market value of the model you want, in true turn key condition. Subtract from that figure the parts and labor needed, at standard yard costs, to bring the proposed purchase to that condition. Offer only the figure that's left after the subtraction.
When I complained to him that we had inspected (and passed on) several boats where the owners would have had to pay us to take them, he nodded and said that I was finally figuring it all out!
When you offer the True Value, just be sure to enclose a detailed description of the scope of work needed to restore the boat -- this will force the seller to open his eyes some. If you bring your proposed work list to a good yard, they can give you a reasonable ball park estimate. I recall one time when we were temporarily infatuated with a lovely Choy Lee 38... with the usual rot around all of the teak-frame fixed ports, the yard supervisor told me to plan on about $1K in labor for each window, give or take...... we walked away. He said he might bring it in for a little less, but better, based on his decades of experience, to plan for that amount of expenditure right up front.

Well, when we finally bought a boat in need of a good deal of labor, we did pay more than such a calculation would indicate... but not too much. New Love will do that to you!
And, I did have a lot of experience in boat repair and willingly took on the majority of the labor. (We all rationalize what we do!)


Still, some of the things you observed will take a good bit of labor. Window rebedding and teak veneering are well within the skills of a patient DIYer, imho.
I seem to recall that particular boat listed on YW for a long time -- white with red trim stripes? Name "Interlude"? Amazing how nice something can look in pictures on the internet, isn't it?

As our own famous Capt. Dan has observed: boat ownership requires Time, Money, and Skill, and you only need two out of three.

Best,
Loren

Yes. Interlude is white with red trim and has been on YW for a while. My brother remembers coming across her a couple of yeasrs ago when we first started talking about this nonsense!

Thanks for the advice. I guess we all kind of do your "calculator" approach in our minds, but maybe not as disciplined as actually getting repair estimates from the yard. For me, I have been thinking of the cost of the replacement items, but not so much putting a dollar value on the time and labor costs.

"boat ownership requires Time, Money, and Skill, and you only need two out of three." Uh-oh, I am lacking in all three to one degree or another! Luckily my brother is in this venture with me and he possesses some of the three requirements.

NADA and BUC are not good indicators of true boat value. The value of any given boat, in my opinion, is based on 2 factors. Comparables and Buyer infatuation.

The first one any good broker can provide you. The second one is basically what you are willing to pay for the boat.

I would walk away from this "project". What you have found is likely just the tip of the iceberg and this boat may be the Titanic

Leaking portlights indicates rot below them and possibly rot above. They also indicate a possible mold and mildew problem as a result. Faulty electronics could be just that or wiring problems(read wetness issues)

Overall it shows a huge lack of maintenance on the owner's part. And he is probably under the impression that it is no worse than when he put it on the market. WRONG. Boats deteriorate very quickly from non use.

In today's market you could spend 45k and get a lot more boat. I bought my boat in 2006 for 42k and it was much better than this boat. The market was a lot better then too(more of a sellers market). The other 35s on the market were around 55-60k. It had some very minor portlight leaks, bubbled paint on the mast, leaky holding tank and needed a good buffing. Other than that it was fine. It just needed some refinishing and updating of electronics. The survey valued it at 48k. It is now valued by my insurer at 60k. The only major system I have not overhauled is the engine which is very healthy and going strong. It probably cost me 25k to get it where it is now.

My general rule of thumb is to buy the best boat you possibly can. And then expect to spend some money to make her perfect. I got lucky as my boat was the best on the market and the lowest priced at the time.

Last Mango was the name of my E-38 when we bought her in Annapolis. FWIW you may want to take a look at Escape Plan which is currently offered for sale. Many many upgrades over the past 5 years most of which are documented on this site. One thing I would caution on the 35-3 and other boats is the wing keel. Others here may offer their own opinoin but when you do run aground they funtion like an anchor attached to your keel. Flip side is your draft is lower so you wont run agound as often so maybe its not a big deal. Anyway good luck and rest assured you have come to THE PLACE for Ericson info. Selfserving link to my listing below.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989/Ericson-Yachts-38-200-2056863/Annapolis/MD/United-States

Echos of the above

Last Mango......PLEASE....do not become the last "Mangled"....I have to go along with the comments of Tim, Loren, and Corey...along with Ted.....

This is the Titanic......I bought my 35-3 just 4 years ago......in great shape....in need of being brought up to 2006 from 1987.....in need of a bit of TLC due to some really backwoods wiring and very poor ships carpentry, but nowhere near what you describe.......I will not even comment on how laughable I think the asking price is from what you describe.......I paid 50K for mine, and at that time it was 10K under market for condition and equipment.

I saw this listing before I bought mine......and the price was out of sight, and the listing did not show that good compared to mine. There is a reason it has been on the market for so long.

If I were 20 years younger (and when I was I did a full monty restoration of a boat that I owned ) I would consider all that Tim has done....but mine did not require the extent his has......My feeling is if he has put 25K into the boat, he has put in an additional 100 in labor.....not withstanding the fact that he has the skill to bring these projects to fruition.......

My best advice.....KEEP SHOPPING.....PAY A FEW BUCKS MORE AND GET A BOAT THAT YOU CAN ENJOY INSTEAD OF HAVING AN ALBATROSS AROUND YOUR NECK, WALLET, FREE TIME, AND MOST OF ALL YOUR PEACE OF MIND....

To paraphrase Loren.....my $.02 worth...FWIW

Wing Keel?

I would echo Ted's comments about the wing keel. I've never seen a 35-3 with a wing keel before and wonder if it was a DIY mod. The 35-3 is a fantastic boat and excellent sailer. Ours is the shoal draft and we out point most boats out there. Keep looking for a clean 35-3 that you can modify and improve at a more leisurely pace, they're out there.

Thanks again to all for your input. Closer inspection of the rig reveals it needs replacing, too. We have decided to continue looking for comparable boats. Since getting acquainted with the e35-3 I have become drawn to them. Found another on the market in Charleston that appears to be in better shape. Awaiting on a response from the broker to my inquiries. If any of you know anything about her, I am all ears....Nirvana Blues
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=18824&url

anotehr e35-3 in Ft Myers is JOSS...
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=1831&url

Ted, I am sure your 38 is great and I would really like one of those, but I am afraid it is a little outside our budget. There is a 38 down here in Mobile Invisible that does well in the local races and she is good-lookin too.

Thanks for all the help. This forum is a great resource.
Tim

Update

The E35-3 Nirvana Blues in Charleston is in pretty-good shape. She is at the top of our list right now.

We also looked at an E38 while there. However, it was clear she was used for nothing but racing...a nice set of sails, but she needed a whole lot of attention every where else. Sadly she was rode hard and put up wet on a regular basis.

We're off to Southwest Florida this weekend to inspect some boats. Among them are (2) E35-3s, (1) E38, a Tartan 37 and a few others.

Will post a report on our findings when we get back next week.

Regarding Nirvana Blues

This is the first 35-3 I have encountered with the Yanmar Engine....the Universal M25 23 HP was standard.....

My best guess is that it might have suffered neglect and had to be replaced, or giving benefit of the doubt.....just wanted a more powerful engine......BUT..that would be a high price to pay for 7 HP difference.....

I would tend to think rode hard and left wet......

FWIW....my .02 worth

E35-3 Nirvana Blues

Interesting thought. We got to talk with the previous owner who had her for about 15 years before selling her to the current owner last year. We never thought to ask about the reason for the engine replacement. oops. But it was replaced relatively early in it's life in 1999. She sounded good when the broker fired her up, but after about a minute we realized the alternator was frozen causing the belt to begin to burn itself up. So, he promptly shut if off.
Broker says current owner is selling because of a downturn in his business that is causing some financial strain.
She had a little bit of wood damage from a hatch leak and a port leak, but it wasn't rotten. Some of the deck hardware showed some rust stains on the fiberglass (low grade SS fasteners?). The turnbuckles on the lifelines showed some corrosion. Nice electronics suite. The sails are in good shape and the main is one of those high-tech jobs and appears to be new. Some of the running rigging will need replacement. The topsides are a nice shiny burgandy color with gold trim.

I thought the same thing about the wood around my leaking portlights. It was not until I removed the portlights did I find that the substrate of the plywood was rotten. It was a less rot resistant wood than the teak veneer so it looked like it just needed some sanding and varnishing on the surface.

If you want a fine boat and are willing to travel, I am selling my 35-3. See my ad in the for sale section.

Nirvana Blues now known as Casual Observer

LastMango said:

The E35-3 Nirvana Blues in Charleston is in pretty-good shape. She is at the top of our list right now.

We also looked at an E38 while there. However, it was clear she was used for nothing but racing...a nice set of sails, but she needed a whole lot of attention every where else. Sadly she was rode hard and put up wet on a regular basis.

We're off to Southwest Florida this weekend to inspect some boats. Among them are (2) E35-3s, (1) E38, a Tartan 37 and a few others.

Will post a report on our findings when we get back next week.

Click to expand...

What did you think of Nirvana Blues. I almost bought it recently (now Casual Observer) but some last minute issues killed the deal. If anyone knows of a good E35-3 shoal let me know... east coast. possible great lakes or gulf.