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E38 Sea Hood Removal--or not?

WBurgner

Member III
Looks like I need to remove the sea hood on my E38 to replace broken stops on the hatch cover.

Before tearing into this I thought I would ask if anyone has done this (remove the sea hood, that is) and see what is involved. Does the traveler need to come off? Are the attachment fittings through bolts with backing plates? I do not recall seeing nuts or plates in that area when looking at the winch mounting last year. How big a deal is this going to be?
 
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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
When I replaced the traveller on my E38 I removed the sea hood in the process and rebedded it. I do not think that I could have removed the sea hood with the traveller in place as doing so would have made it extremely difficult to break the bond between the sea hood and deck. The sea hood fasteners are simply stainless screws that penetrate through the deck. Not a great design as some of mine leaked. A blind hole would have been better, or better still, an embedded hard point for the screws to bite into. Through bolting would work too but that freakin' headliner is in the way, as usual. I will warn you that you will have to make a special tool to hold the nuts above the sliding hatch, but under the sea hood. I purchased a 7/16" 1/4" drive socket and cut it in half, to make it shorter. Then I made a simple handle of 1" wide flat stock steel, 1/8" thick and 10" long or so. Then drilled a hole in the flat stock so the socket bit fit through snugly. Finished off by welding the socket to the handle. The result is a thin tool that can be slid in on top of the sliding hatch and engaged the nuts on the bottom of the sea hood that secure the traveller. Well, that was long winded, wasn't it? I didn't see any other way to get the traveller off. RT
 

WBurgner

Member III
Hmmm.

Thanks Rob.
This looks like another one of those projects with the potential to open more problems than you set out to solve. Since I do not have an issue with the sea hood, or leaks, I might look for an alternative to replacing the slider stops rather than risk creating new problems with those screws. I may eventually replace the traveler, and in that case, the sea hood can be pulled and rebedded then.

On the positive side, since my slider pulls completely out I might be able to remove the traveler without the special tool. There is a lot more vertical space without the slider. Which traveler did you go to and how did you match the slight curve?
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
FWIW, when I removed the traveler on my E-34 I had to use an impact tool to get the screws out of the sea hood. The nuts didn't turn under this abuse. No wrench needed.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Well, the backing nuts in the sea hood on mine were loose. You may get away with Tom Metzgers method, the impact driver but you won't know until you try! I had Garhauer make a new traveller for me using the old one as a template to get the curve correct. They did a great job, I love the product but was less than impressed with their delivery times. They quoted me four weeks and it was really three months. So don't make plans based on their quoted times.....

I attached a pic of the tool I made. If you would like to borrow it just pay the shipping each way and its yours. Its 7/16".

RT
 

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dwigle

Member III
When I replaced my traveler, I mounted the track (Harken, bent by Svendnsen's in SF area) to the cover first, then mounted the unit to the boat. The biggest problem I had once the traveler was bent, was resealing the hood and reaching the nuts to do it. If you're not changing the traveler, just unbolt it at the towers and unbolt the hood and remove as a unit as I recall. Reaching all the nuts was a pain, but doable with help and an end wrench.

Don Wigle
Wiggle Room
E38 #8
Pt Richmond, CA
 

WBurgner

Member III
Thanks for the offer, Rob. I have a lot of Garhauer gear and like their stuff. A three month wait would be a deal breaker if they have the original traveler in the meantime. I have an extended cruise coming up in March, so the traveler would have to wait. At some point you have to go with the boat you have, right?

I might try Don's suggestion if I elect to replace the wooden slider stops on the hatch cover.

Thanks to all for their input.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Schaefer Original Equipment Removal

This thread already helped me a lot, thanks. Apparently there is no way to remove the sliding hatch without breaking the stops or pulling off the sea hood. That tool you made is great, Rob.

Do any of you have a picture of the final installation you could post?

For the traveler removal, I can't tell from the pictures I took whether the screws in the track where it crosses the sea hood are all the way through the sea hood or not. I should have paid attention to the alignment of the holes above and below. The attached pics are my current installation, with the black channel mounted to the end risers with six bolts. Clearly, the six on the end are not aligned with the track mounting screws.

I plan to replace it with Harken hardware. I have a new dodger (2009) but we did not add any feed-thru holes for traveler control, so I am also going to deal with that. Either nice (expensive) modifications to the dodger, or some turning block arrangement is needed to lead through the existing openings.

I would like to have the left-right range on the new traveler go as far to the end of the track as possible. Not having the feed-thru for the old one sort of frees up my thinking on that. The attached pics are of the starboard end of the existing Schaefer and some of the mounting bolts under the riser.

Thanks,
 

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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
For the traveler removal, I can't tell from the pictures I took whether the screws in the track where it crosses the sea hood are all the way through the sea hood or not. I should have paid attention to the alignment of the holes above and below. The attached pics are my current installation, with the black channel mounted to the end risers with six bolts. Clearly, the six on the end are not aligned with the track mounting screws.

That looks just like mine did. The screws over the sea hood did in fact pass through the track, the black channel and then the sea hood. Thats why I made that tool. The other screws just attached the track to the black channel.

Hope that helps!

RT
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Craig,
I used a scrap of flat steel stock @1"x20"x0.125". I drilled a hole in it just smaller than the socket, 7/16th inch, quarter inch drive socket, and then Dremel'd the hole until the socket was a tight force fit. Before I assembled it I placed the socket on a 1/4" extension as a handle and then ground down the socket lengthwise to reduce the depth of the hex pocket the fastener sits in. Why? I make the socket just deep enough that a 7/16" nut is flush when sitting in it. This allows the tool to hold the nut "just right" when you line up on the penetrating bolt. It also allows the tool to slip easily in between the sea hood and sliding hatch. Once the socket is pressed into the flat steel I tack welded it in a few spots. I placed the lock washer and flat washer on top of the socket with the nut in it, and used a dab of 4200 to keep the washers in place there. Then you just slide it in and line up on the bolt. Easy.

RT
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I bet that tool took about 2 six-packs off the traveler job. But you could drink them anyway to celebrate how easy it was.

I want to leave the hood in place until I get the new track made and do a test installation without sealer, etc. Then the hood comes off and I'm going to remove the wooden boxes (starting to rot) at the forward end and glass over them. If I could find attractive cup holders I might find a way to put a couple up there instead. A long neck is about the only thing that fits into the slot the way it is now.

Is the 6-point socket the best way to go? I would worry about jamming the nut in a 12-point, but maybe you don't need that much torque?

Last question for now: What did you use to get the slotted screws loose from the sealer? I have a carpenter's brace and some bits from an impact driver that might team up to get them out. Getting the nuts off the screws might be the easy part.

Thanks,
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Craig - Keep in mind that I used an impact tool and hammer and didn't need the wrench at all. But if you make a tool and use a six point socket make the wrench long enough to handle the 60* swing.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Actually the tool is really only to hold the nuts in place, keep them from turning. I used new phillips head screws in place of the old hardware. Removal memories are fuzzy, I'm guessing I used a combination of thin flat prybars, wooden wedges, etc. to get the traveler clear of the sea hood? I don't remember it being particularly difficult. Reinstallation was done with a Makita impact driver, thats why the handle didn't have to be long enough to turn the nuts, I turned the screws instead! And yes, a 6 point socket is ALWAYS better.

RT
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I'm not sure whether the nuts will turn or not, Tom. They look clean from the bottom. Having them stick would make the removal work lots easier. I will need something on them for the re-installation, though.

I don't use impact drivers much and when I do it's usually to loosen stubborn fasteners.

Thanks for the tips. Sorry about hijacking the thread, Bill.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hey Rob,

I would like to take you up on your offer to loan me the tool. I'll send you a PM with my address.

I got out on the boat to scope out the problem and fiddled around a little. Even though I got two of them out without hurting anything or getting frustrated, I can see where this is heading. One nut was already loose and the second wasn't too tight and it gave up rather easily. The box wrench ran out of room after that.

Craig
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'm trying to get the traveler track off the Ericson channel to trace for Garhauer.

Although the ss machine screws on the "flying" part of the channel screw only into the channel stock, it seems from this thread that they penetrate the sea hood, with nuts on the other side.

However, the nuts are not my problem: the machine screws are breaking off at various lengths, result of stainless/aluminum bonding.

Soaking in PB blaster doesn't help.

I'm afraid that once this corrosion welding happens, there's nothing to do but drill them out.

For the record, here's another good sea hood/traveler thread:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-Traveller-Upgrade-do-I-take-the-sea-hood-off
 
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Emerald

Moderator
I'm trying to get the traveler track off the Ericson channel to trace for Garhauer.

Although the ss machine screws on the "flying" part of the channel screw only into the channel stock, it seems from this thread that they penetrate the sea hood, with nuts on the other side.

However, the nuts are not my problem: the machine screws are breaking off at various lengths, result of stainless/aluminum bonding.

Soaking in PB blaster doesn't help.

I'm afraid that once this corrosion welding happens, there's nothing to do but drill them out.

For the record, here's another good sea hood/traveler thread:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-Traveller-Upgrade-do-I-take-the-sea-hood-off

Yeah, this is an application where getting the torch out to heat it up really doesn't work too well..... :0
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
It turns out that on my boat the nuts under the sea hood are readily accessible just by removing the sliding hatch.

My sliding hatch is restrained only by two stops, easily removed, on the companionway trim. It was that way on the 32-3 also.

The issue for me was getting the big stainless machine screws out of the aluminum channel that holds the factory Schaefer/Ronstan traveler track.

I bought a Makita impact driver, which helped--all but 8 came out without breaking off.

It is definitely ss/alum corrosion welding--not in the track, but where the machine screw penetrates the channel underneath. The channel is threaded, and the nut is only a backup.

I have never encountered a 1-inch bolt stub that I could get vice grips conveniently on and still would not budge, even though only held by a quarter inch of corrosion.

Tomorrow: heat!

I drilled one stainless stub out. It took half an hour and two cobalt bits. Hmmmm.

But if the sliding hatch will come out, and the screws will turn, this would all be quite easy.


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