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Thread: Ever remove the head from a Universal 5432?

  1. #1
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    Ever remove the head from a Universal 5432?

    Hello All,
    Down at the boat today checking on her, etc. and noticed something I thought I saw once before. On a Universal 5432 engine the thermostat housing is bolted to the front of the cylinder head. When the head is installed the mounting boss on the engine block for the coolant pump is directly in front of the thermostat housing. I mean a 1/4" away. This means no way no how is this thermostat housing being removed without removing the cylinder head. Guess where coolant is leaking from? Ah yes, the thermostat housing/cylinder head mating surface of course. So it looks like I will be doing a bit of engine work this winter.

    This is well within my comfort zone, I've been completely through several GM and Mercedes diesels, so a little tractor engine should be easy. At least its a pushrod engine so no cam chain, timing, etc. to deal with. Looks like the intake and exhaust manifolds, alternator, and everything on top of the head, injectors, hard lines, hoses, etc. will have to come off before the head. If anyones done this before and can offer any tips or hints they would be appreciated. Anyone know if they use TTY headbolts? I'll have to find the engine manual......

    TIA, RT

    Edit-Actually after looking closely at the Torresen site the water pump boss is actually on the timing cover. Hmmm, may be easier to take that off IF it doesn't mess with the timing gears, IP, etc. This will take some looking into.
    Last edited by rwthomas1; 12-23-2009 at 08:00 PM.
    Rob Thomas
    Wakefield, RI
    1983 Ericson E38 "Ruby"
    "I purchased a boat because setting fire to $100 bills was not an efficient enough way to dispose of them...."

  2. #2
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    Rob are you referring to the t-stat? I thought it was jsut those two nuts a gasket?

  3. #3
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    Diesel woes

    Have removed the head from my M25XP and a 5411 a few years ago. Both very straightforward. Injectors stay in head, intake & exhaust mainfolds come off, as well as fuel lines. I would spring for the shop manual from Thorensens (Marine Diesel Direct) as it's invaluable for working inside these engines. Gives you diagrams and all engine specks (clearances, torques, etc.) for keeping these beasts alive. I have found the Kabota parts MUCH less costly than MDD. I paid $70 for top end gasket set as opposed to $260 from MDD! You just need to find the block model number. Go to the MDD website and look under history for the Universal engines and you should find a number like D950 (which is the M25XP) and give that to your local Kabota dealer.
    All that being said, I sure seems like there should be an easier way to get at it, but without putting an eyeball on it there is no way to know.
    Good luck, & Happy Holidays
    Have fun & sail fast :cheers:
    Bud E34 #265 "Escapade"

  4. #4
    Principal Partner Tom Metzger's Avatar
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    Here is a list of Universal engines with some specs and the block #. On the attachment the block # is called the Kubota Model #, but I think there are many models using the same block.

    The block # is the number you need to get into the Kubota system.

    BTW, the data is off the net, so not guaranteed.

    Here is a link for 70 mm stroke series engines (see attachment) shop manuals including parts, and also some Yanmar YSE engines. Thank you Clayton, from a previous thread.

    www.sailingboatefaki.gr/engine%20manuals.htm

    Merry Merry & Happy Happy.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Tom Metzger; 12-25-2009 at 10:34 AM.
    Tom Metzger
    E-34 Xanthus

  5. #5
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    Remove head...

    You should be able to find the Kubota model number on the engine itself, below and behind the fuel injectors. At least, I was able to on my 25XP. Good luck with the project!
    Clayton

    P.S. - Try www.tractorsmart.com for Kubota parts. They have an 800 toll free number and are very knowledgeable, helpful and reasonably priced.
    Last edited by clayton; 12-25-2009 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Additional info

  6. #6
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    Well I have more closely looked at the spare engine I have in the garage. Had to "dig it out" to look at it. I have two options:

    Remove the head. This requires removing the injector lines, intake and exhaust manifolds, valve cover, etc. Pretty straightforward but still pretty deep into the engine.

    Remove the timing cover. This appears to be less invasive and less fasteners but far more technical. It would require the removal of the oil filter mount, crankshaft pulley, raw water pump, injection pump THROTTLE & GOVERNOR ASSEMBLY!, and then the timing cover.

    I'm leaning towards the head coming off as I don't really want to mess with any part of the IP system or setup. I have the original manual for the 5432 that came with the boat. Thanks for the Kubota info, I have a local dealer I will have to look up as Torreson wants $200 FOR THE HEADGASKET! What a joke. RT
    Rob Thomas
    Wakefield, RI
    1983 Ericson E38 "Ruby"
    "I purchased a boat because setting fire to $100 bills was not an efficient enough way to dispose of them...."

  7. #7
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    I had the yard manager where I am keeping my boat take a look at my issue today. Hes a friend and been in the boat biz, sailboats and this yard specifically for 40+years. He thinks that the coolant is weeping from the bypass hoses and running down to the seam I am concerned about. According to him the very cold snap we just had can cause things like this. I am going to clean the area very well, with vacuum, brush, solvent, etc. Then I am going to dust the area thoroughly with talcum powder. The talc will show tracks where the leaked coolant has passed. We are about to experience another cold snap but later in the week I will run the engine up to temp with a garden hose feeding a bucket for cooling. Then let it cool and see where it leaks. I didn't see any coolant loss last season, didn't smell it, no coolant issues with the engine. Fun, fun, fun. RT
    Rob Thomas
    Wakefield, RI
    1983 Ericson E38 "Ruby"
    "I purchased a boat because setting fire to $100 bills was not an efficient enough way to dispose of them...."

  8. #8
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    I hope it was a false alarm. But if not ......
    Remove the cylinder head rather than the timing cover.
    I had to change out the thermostat housing on my M25XP last spring as it had corroded through. I first noticed a tiny blemish in the gold paint and the next thing I knew there was a finger sized hole. (The antifreeze had been left too long, it can get quite acidic apparently, and it turned out the heat exchanger had a leaky tube). Pretty straightforeward re & re, I left the intake attached. Sent the exhaust manifold/tank for pressure testing and cleaning. You can take the opportunity to do the intake valve seals, have injectors worked on, etc. Or not, if the engine is running well. I didn't.
    Hope you don't have to do it though !

    Rob & Linda Lesnie
    Vancouver BC
    1988 E34 Alia

  9. #9
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    Update:

    The weather finally warmed up enough to start the engine and check things out. On the 5432 the alternator arm/mount is attached to the engine with one of the bolts that hold the thermostat housing to the front of the cylinder head. Because this bolt is loosened to adjust the alternator belt tension it also loosens the upper corner of the thermostat housing. There was coolant steam coming from the bolt head itself after running the engine until warm. After removing that bolt the seam between the thermostat housing and cylinder head began to seep. The bolt hole was completely plugged up with old coolant deposits and the bolt was very hard to remove suggesting that this has been leaking coolant for a very long time.

    So the problem is how to attach the alternator mounting arm AND keep clamping force on the thermostat housing? Right now I am thinking of using a stud with a separate nut under the alternator arm to secure the housing and then a second nut on top to secure the alternator arm. That way when adjusting the belt tension the housing seal is not disturbed. I will have to bend the alternator arm a bit to compensate for the extra nut width but that is simple.

    So what is the result of all this? Well, I am going to try to seal up the leak by using a stud and not disturbing the area afterwards. I am hoping that this is a problem that can be managed and doesn't become a critical leak. Time will tell.

    RT
    Rob Thomas
    Wakefield, RI
    1983 Ericson E38 "Ruby"
    "I purchased a boat because setting fire to $100 bills was not an efficient enough way to dispose of them...."

  10. #10
    Senior Moderator Loren Beach's Avatar
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    Question

    Hmmm.
    Now you have me wondering if the marinization done on the Kubota blocks by Betamarine or Phasor is better thought out than on the Universal line.

    Loren
    1988 Olson 34 #8
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    Fresh Air
    Portland, OR USA

  11. #11
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    I was wondering the same thing. I have wrenched on many different engines and I cannot recall ever seeing a fastener used to retain a critical part also used to retain an accessory mounting point that has to be loosened as part of regular maintenance. It was a very poor idea as there were simple ways to avoid the issue. Unfortunate. RT
    Rob Thomas
    Wakefield, RI
    1983 Ericson E38 "Ruby"
    "I purchased a boat because setting fire to $100 bills was not an efficient enough way to dispose of them...."

  12. #12
    Principal Partner Tom Metzger's Avatar
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    Rob - Is the alternator and bracket original on your engine? It seems surprising that this hasn't come up in a thread before.

    On the M-25XP the stud is used to hold the mounting bracket onto the engine, not the adjusting J bracket.
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  13. #13
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    Tom,
    As far as I can tell this is how Universal did it. Maybe even Kubota as I assume the original engine had some sort of accessory drive? I have two 5432's, one in the boat and a spare in the garage, they are the same and also the M40 at the consignment shop was the same. The alternator "J" arm is directly bolted to the thermostat housing. Maybe my case is rare? When I removed the bolt on the spare engine, it was dry, no residue so it wasn't leaking. Could be that some PO did not religiously tighten that bolt on my engine and here we are.

    Thanks for the pic. I have to devise a setup like you have. Shouldn't be too tough and I like a challenge!

    RT
    Last edited by rwthomas1; 01-21-2010 at 05:46 AM.
    Rob Thomas
    Wakefield, RI
    1983 Ericson E38 "Ruby"
    "I purchased a boat because setting fire to $100 bills was not an efficient enough way to dispose of them...."

  14. #14
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    Update:
    I was unable to get the thermostat housing to seal to the cylinder head despite several different solutions. The cylinder head has been removed. I now have another, larger problem. 5 of the lifters have spalling on their faces. Whenever I have run into this before its a problem that must be remedied. My concern is that the cam is also compromised. Replacing the cam will require the removal of the timing cover. At this point, its probably worth it to simply pull the engine out. Three engine mounts, the control cables, coupling, raw water hose and its out. I have to price some parts and take a good look at my spare engine but this is getting serious quickly. Just in time for spring.....

    RT
    Rob Thomas
    Wakefield, RI
    1983 Ericson E38 "Ruby"
    "I purchased a boat because setting fire to $100 bills was not an efficient enough way to dispose of them...."

  15. #15
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    Update:
    Close inspection shows the bores in the cylinders have light scuffing. I'm guessing the fuel diluted oil is the culprit. Engine is officially dead. Tearing into the spare to see if its usable. Fun, fun, fun.

    RT
    Rob Thomas
    Wakefield, RI
    1983 Ericson E38 "Ruby"
    "I purchased a boat because setting fire to $100 bills was not an efficient enough way to dispose of them...."

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