• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Ever remove the head from a Universal 5432?

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Hello All,
Down at the boat today checking on her, etc. and noticed something I thought I saw once before. On a Universal 5432 engine the thermostat housing is bolted to the front of the cylinder head. When the head is installed the mounting boss on the engine block for the coolant pump is directly in front of the thermostat housing. I mean a 1/4" away. This means no way no how is this thermostat housing being removed without removing the cylinder head. Guess where coolant is leaking from? Ah yes, the thermostat housing/cylinder head mating surface of course. So it looks like I will be doing a bit of engine work this winter.

This is well within my comfort zone, I've been completely through several GM and Mercedes diesels, so a little tractor engine should be easy. At least its a pushrod engine so no cam chain, timing, etc. to deal with. Looks like the intake and exhaust manifolds, alternator, and everything on top of the head, injectors, hard lines, hoses, etc. will have to come off before the head. If anyones done this before and can offer any tips or hints they would be appreciated. Anyone know if they use TTY headbolts? I'll have to find the engine manual......

TIA, RT

Edit-Actually after looking closely at the Torresen site the water pump boss is actually on the timing cover. Hmmm, may be easier to take that off IF it doesn't mess with the timing gears, IP, etc. This will take some looking into.
 
Last edited:

escapade

Inactive Member
Diesel woes

Have removed the head from my M25XP and a 5411 a few years ago. Both very straightforward. Injectors stay in head, intake & exhaust mainfolds come off, as well as fuel lines. I would spring for the shop manual from Thorensens (Marine Diesel Direct) as it's invaluable for working inside these engines. Gives you diagrams and all engine specks (clearances, torques, etc.) for keeping these beasts alive. I have found the Kabota parts MUCH less costly than MDD. I paid $70 for top end gasket set as opposed to $260 from MDD! You just need to find the block model number. Go to the MDD website and look under history for the Universal engines and you should find a number like D950 (which is the M25XP) and give that to your local Kabota dealer.
All that being said, I sure seems like there should be an easier way to get at it, but without putting an eyeball on it there is no way to know.
Good luck, & Happy Holidays
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Here is a list of Universal engines with some specs and the block #. On the attachment the block # is called the Kubota Model #, but I think there are many models using the same block.

The block # is the number you need to get into the Kubota system.

BTW, the data is off the net, so not guaranteed.

Here is a link for 70 mm stroke series engines (see attachment) shop manuals including parts, and also some Yanmar YSE engines. Thank you Clayton, from a previous thread.

www.sailingboatefaki.gr/engine%20manuals.htm

Merry Merry & Happy Happy.
 

Attachments

  • Universal Specs.doc
    68.5 KB · Views: 117
Last edited:

clayton

Member III
Remove head...

You should be able to find the Kubota model number on the engine itself, below and behind the fuel injectors. At least, I was able to on my 25XP. Good luck with the project!
Clayton

P.S. - Try www.tractorsmart.com for Kubota parts. They have an 800 toll free number and are very knowledgeable, helpful and reasonably priced.
 
Last edited:

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Well I have more closely looked at the spare engine I have in the garage. Had to "dig it out" to look at it. I have two options:

Remove the head. This requires removing the injector lines, intake and exhaust manifolds, valve cover, etc. Pretty straightforward but still pretty deep into the engine.

Remove the timing cover. This appears to be less invasive and less fasteners but far more technical. It would require the removal of the oil filter mount, crankshaft pulley, raw water pump, injection pump THROTTLE & GOVERNOR ASSEMBLY!, and then the timing cover.

I'm leaning towards the head coming off as I don't really want to mess with any part of the IP system or setup. I have the original manual for the 5432 that came with the boat. Thanks for the Kubota info, I have a local dealer I will have to look up as Torreson wants $200 FOR THE HEADGASKET! What a joke. RT
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I had the yard manager where I am keeping my boat take a look at my issue today. Hes a friend and been in the boat biz, sailboats and this yard specifically for 40+years. He thinks that the coolant is weeping from the bypass hoses and running down to the seam I am concerned about. According to him the very cold snap we just had can cause things like this. I am going to clean the area very well, with vacuum, brush, solvent, etc. Then I am going to dust the area thoroughly with talcum powder. The talc will show tracks where the leaked coolant has passed. We are about to experience another cold snap but later in the week I will run the engine up to temp with a garden hose feeding a bucket for cooling. Then let it cool and see where it leaks. I didn't see any coolant loss last season, didn't smell it, no coolant issues with the engine. Fun, fun, fun. RT
 

lindaloo

Member II
I hope it was a false alarm. But if not ......
Remove the cylinder head rather than the timing cover.
I had to change out the thermostat housing on my M25XP last spring as it had corroded through. I first noticed a tiny blemish in the gold paint and the next thing I knew there was a finger sized hole. (The antifreeze had been left too long, it can get quite acidic apparently, and it turned out the heat exchanger had a leaky tube). Pretty straightforeward re & re, I left the intake attached. Sent the exhaust manifold/tank for pressure testing and cleaning. You can take the opportunity to do the intake valve seals, have injectors worked on, etc. Or not, if the engine is running well. I didn't.
Hope you don't have to do it though !

Rob & Linda Lesnie
Vancouver BC
1988 E34 Alia
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Update:

The weather finally warmed up enough to start the engine and check things out. On the 5432 the alternator arm/mount is attached to the engine with one of the bolts that hold the thermostat housing to the front of the cylinder head. Because this bolt is loosened to adjust the alternator belt tension it also loosens the upper corner of the thermostat housing. There was coolant steam coming from the bolt head itself after running the engine until warm. After removing that bolt the seam between the thermostat housing and cylinder head began to seep. The bolt hole was completely plugged up with old coolant deposits and the bolt was very hard to remove suggesting that this has been leaking coolant for a very long time.

So the problem is how to attach the alternator mounting arm AND keep clamping force on the thermostat housing? Right now I am thinking of using a stud with a separate nut under the alternator arm to secure the housing and then a second nut on top to secure the alternator arm. That way when adjusting the belt tension the housing seal is not disturbed. I will have to bend the alternator arm a bit to compensate for the extra nut width but that is simple.

So what is the result of all this? Well, I am going to try to seal up the leak by using a stud and not disturbing the area afterwards. I am hoping that this is a problem that can be managed and doesn't become a critical leak. Time will tell.

RT
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hmmm.
Now you have me wondering if the marinization done on the Kubota blocks by Betamarine or Phasor is better thought out than on the Universal line.

Loren
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I was wondering the same thing. I have wrenched on many different engines and I cannot recall ever seeing a fastener used to retain a critical part also used to retain an accessory mounting point that has to be loosened as part of regular maintenance. It was a very poor idea as there were simple ways to avoid the issue. Unfortunate. RT
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Rob - Is the alternator and bracket original on your engine? It seems surprising that this hasn't come up in a thread before.

On the M-25XP the stud is used to hold the mounting bracket onto the engine, not the adjusting J bracket.
 

Attachments

  • Coolant pump May 2008 001 B.jpg
    Coolant pump May 2008 001 B.jpg
    164.5 KB · Views: 421

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Tom,
As far as I can tell this is how Universal did it. Maybe even Kubota as I assume the original engine had some sort of accessory drive? I have two 5432's, one in the boat and a spare in the garage, they are the same and also the M40 at the consignment shop was the same. The alternator "J" arm is directly bolted to the thermostat housing. Maybe my case is rare? When I removed the bolt on the spare engine, it was dry, no residue so it wasn't leaking. Could be that some PO did not religiously tighten that bolt on my engine and here we are.

Thanks for the pic. I have to devise a setup like you have. Shouldn't be too tough and I like a challenge!

RT
 
Last edited:

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Update:
I was unable to get the thermostat housing to seal to the cylinder head despite several different solutions. The cylinder head has been removed. I now have another, larger problem. 5 of the lifters have spalling on their faces. Whenever I have run into this before its a problem that must be remedied. My concern is that the cam is also compromised. Replacing the cam will require the removal of the timing cover. At this point, its probably worth it to simply pull the engine out. Three engine mounts, the control cables, coupling, raw water hose and its out. I have to price some parts and take a good look at my spare engine but this is getting serious quickly. Just in time for spring.....

RT
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Update:
Close inspection shows the bores in the cylinders have light scuffing. I'm guessing the fuel diluted oil is the culprit. Engine is officially dead. Tearing into the spare to see if its usable. Fun, fun, fun.

RT
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Isn't this how things always go? I feel for you RT but at least be comforted in your own mechanical abilities. You can rebuild that beast yourself and probably do a better job than a lot of the so called "pros". Many owners would be staring at a huge bill at this point just to find what you did on your own.

How is the bottom end? Have you pulled the engine yet? Another silver lining is that now it will be alot easier to replace the sound insulation in the engine compartment if you havent already:egrin:
 

Emerald

Moderator
Update:
Close inspection shows the bores in the cylinders have light scuffing. I'm guessing the fuel diluted oil is the culprit. Engine is officially dead. Tearing into the spare to see if its usable. Fun, fun, fun.

RT

Have you looked into boring it out .010" or sleeving it? Saved an A4 two seasons back that had been already been bored to the max by sleeving it for $125/hole. Still came out ahead on the bottom line and it's been running great since. There may still be life in that short block.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Update:
Some time ago a member on this board was prepping an E38 for the Caribbean. Don't remember the name and haven't seen or heard anything so I imagine he made that happen. Part of the prep was repowering as he overheated the 5432 and didn't trust it. I bought the complete engine for $200 and drove to Delaware to get it. That may have been a very smart decision....

My machinist just gave that engine the thumbs up! No valve guide wear, cylinder bores clean, no ridges, scoring, nothing..... So now I just need to clean it up, put the head back on, swap all the external parts, test run it, paint it, and drop it in.

Waiting on a call from the parts guy for a full gasket kit, price, lead time, etc.

I will be also checking the damper plate and swapping on the transmission from the boat. New engine mounts, dripless shaft seal, clean the engine space, paint it and install soundproofing. Chase all the wiring while I am there and possibly just replace it all, wire by wire, to the panel. PO's, etc. have hacked it here and there.

Not the project I wanted but at least I should launch on time.

RT
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Update:
The cleaning and removal of parts continues. The engine in the boat has been stripped to the block/trans, completely disconnected and unbolted. All it needs now is for the yard to lift it out. All the parts have been hauled off the boat as well.

The "new" engine has been cleaned, scraped, and is pretty much ready to be reassembled. The known good parts from the dead engine will be bolted on, etc. The plan is to run it on a stand in my driveway to be certain all is well before I go to the trouble of dropping it into the boat. It will get new mounts, a fresh paint job, etc. I'm waiting until it runs before I bother installing a new rear main seal and oil pan gasket. They are tough to get at right now so I will make sure the engine is good before proceeding. I considered just running the engine as I got it, and in retrospect that may have been a good idea. However I just had to pull the head off to have a look and make sure the bores, valves, etc. were good.

So here are a few pics of the "new" engine block and head waiting for gaskets.

RT
 

Attachments

  • New engine 001.jpg
    New engine 001.jpg
    116.7 KB · Views: 113
  • New engine 002.jpg
    New engine 002.jpg
    106.8 KB · Views: 94
  • New engine 003.jpg
    New engine 003.jpg
    117.6 KB · Views: 102
  • New engine 004.jpg
    New engine 004.jpg
    121 KB · Views: 96

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Update!
The gaskets arrived yesterday so I reassembled the head and installed it last night, along with most everything else. This evening I finished dressing the engine, rolled it out into the garage and test ran it. Started fine, ran quite well once it cleared out. Only ran it 5 minutes or so just to make sure it wasn't knocking or anything bad. It appears all is well so I started stripping down to the block to complete the re-gasketing and get ready for paint.

Anything that can be removed will be bead blasted to prep for paint.

I now have the engine mounts, new muffler, sound insulation, etc. so its starting to go back together, which is the best part of the project.

RT
 
Top