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E23-E27 fuel tank ventilation

davisr

Member III
Many with E23s and E25s have outboard motors. Some E26 and E27 owners do as well. I'm curious to know how many owners out there stow their fuel tank (or tanks) in the cockpit, near the motor.

The fellow I bought my E25 from stowed his portable fuel tank in the starboard cockpit locker. When I had this E25 surveyed prior to purchase in October, I was told by the surveyor that if the cockpit locker was going to be dedicated to the portable fuel tank, then it would need to be vented, preferably through the hull, above the waterline, so that fumes could escape the boat.

The more I've thought about it, the more I think it would be a better idea to stow the fuel tanks in the cockpit, as far aft as possible. Wondering if others out there have done the same thing.

Thanks,
Roscoe

E25, cb, Hull 226
 

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fredn56

Member II
Good topic for discussion.
I stow my tank in the port cockpit locker with the vent on the tank closed, but have never been completely comfortable with this arrangement.
I have noticed things (spare lines, lifejackets) get grimy in there.
Stowing in the cockpit with the heat from the sun, should the vent be open?
Also worried about wanderers-by "liberating" my fuel tank.

Fred Nelson
Ericson 23 Mark II
#344
Ad Astra
 

davisr

Member III
Fred,

I hear what your saying about storing those tanks out in the sun. I carry the same style tanks in my v-hull johnboat for my 20 hp Mercury. The sun has a tendency to make them swell in the hot weather. It seems, though, that for those Ericsons with outboard motors, this external tank set-up is preferable to the cockpit locker set-up. On the other thread I started yesterday titled something like "Battery Compartment Ventilation" I wrote, (in response to another fellow's reply) about how the starboard cockpit locker on my E25 is not completely sealed. I would never have know this if I had not stuck my head all the way down in there and looked up toward the coaming with a flashlight. The gaps at the top of the plywood bulkheads in the cockpit locker allow for the escape of fumes into the lazarette (or what some would call the engine compartment). From there the fumes travel down into the bilge. The bilge itself, though dried out by me about a month and a half ago once I got the boat back home on the trailer (after purchase), still has an oily residue. The smell of gas permeates all the low-lying areas of the boat - including main salon settees. Like the surveyor said, it was really just a disaster waiting to happen.

Have others experienced similar fumes in the bilge, etc.? Maybe the production guys just didn't seal off all of my cockpit locker as they were supposed to, but the half-sized bulkheads do seem to be cut from a common pattern.

Best,
Roscoe
 

ignacio

Member III
Blogs Author
I have an interesting arrangement on my recently-acquired 1973 E27. I have a 9.9HP outboard motor. Just next to it in the cockpit on the port side, the prior owner drilled two holes, and each one has a fuel hose coming out of it. These fuel hoses correspond to two separate 5 gal fuel tanks on the port-side lazarette. The two tanks are held in place by a wooden shelf system that is glassed-in. There is a vent on the stern, both port and starboard sides, for gas fumes to vent out, but I also close the vents on the tanks themselves.
 

ignacio

Member III
Blogs Author
Sure...I don't actually have any pictures of this, but will head out to the boat this week and snap a few.
 

davisr

Member III
Yea, what Fred said. Would really be interested in seeing a few pix of your set-up Ignacio - when you get a chance.

Take care,
Roscoe
 

ignacio

Member III
Blogs Author
fuel tanks/hoses

Hey fellas. Ok, here's the pics of the setup. Sorry it took a while! Here's the pics of the two fuel hoses coming out of the port side, and then some pics of the two gas tanks that the two fuel hoses are attached to. The wooden shelf that the gas tanks sit on is glasses in, and there's a short cord that gets tied to the handle to keep them from sliding out.

As I mentioned previously, I've only had the boat Since September, and not fully convinced that this is ok to do (I'm in California), or if there's a better way.

Would love your input!
 

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davisr

Member III
Thanks Ignacio for passing these pictures along. I see what you're saying. The tanks are sort of stacked up, one on top of the other, with the glassed-in shelf separating the two. You mentioned that the former owner had installed two vents on the stern. What types of vents are these that prevent the inflow of water in a following sea? Are they fuel tank vents - the sort that are connected by a hose directly to the tank?

Thanks,
Roscoe

E25, cb, Hull 226
 

fredn56

Member II
Hmmmm . . .
I have asked around and most outboarders on my marina keep their tanks in the cockpit with the vent open halfway, so that is what I am going to do.
I don't want to drill any more holes!

Fred Nelson
Ericson 23 Mark II
#344
Ad Astra
 

ignacio

Member III
Blogs Author
Cowl vents

Unfortunately, they're just cowl vents (sorry, I didn't get a picture of that!). The prior owner sailed the boat primarily inland...no following seas, so it wasn't a problem/priority. I'm closer to the ocean (in SF Bay), so I'll probably end up changing this arrangement.

Yes, the wooden shelf has two levels, one for each tank.

Thanks Ignacio for passing these pictures along. I see what you're saying. The tanks are sort of stacked up, one on top of the other, with the glassed-in shelf separating the two. You mentioned that the former owner had installed two vents on the stern. What types of vents are these that prevent the inflow of water in a following sea? Are they fuel tank vents - the sort that are connected by a hose directly to the tank?

Thanks,
Roscoe

E25, cb, Hull 226
 

davisr

Member III
Ignacio, did you notice if your cockpit locker was completely sealed with a bulkhead on its forward end? My bulkheads do not extend all the way up into the cowling. This was one of the ways that gas vapors were making their way down into the bilge.

In terms of venting a portable gas tank with a ventilation hose and anti-siphon vent, I spoke with a few employees at West Marine who said this would be difficult with the plastic tanks that I have. Not sure if your metal tanks have a ventilation portal for a set-up of this nature.

I think I'm gonna follow Fred's lead and keep mine as far aft in the cockpit as possible. Hopefully the fumes will dissipate and not flow up and over the bridgedeck and down into the main salon. I suppose that is a possibility depending on the way the wind is circulating in the cabin. I'm not sure how else to approach this problem. I would think the open cockpit is safer than the closed cockpit locker.

Roscoe
 

ignacio

Member III
Blogs Author
There is a bulkhead forward, but the locker is not completely limited to the port side. The locker goes down and under the cockpit sole to additional locker space under the starboard side. However, that whole section has bulkheads foward, so nothing really opens up to the main salon.

Still, now that I've been reading posts and considering this a little more, I'm starting to think that the arrangement on the boat isn't a good idea. I guess the previous owner lived dangerously!

Ignacio, did you notice if your cockpit locker was completely sealed with a bulkhead on its forward end? My bulkheads do not extend all the way up into the cowling. This was one of the ways that gas vapors were making their way down into the bilge.

In terms of venting a portable gas tank with a ventilation hose and anti-siphon vent, I spoke with a few employees at West Marine who said this would be difficult with the plastic tanks that I have. Not sure if your metal tanks have a ventilation portal for a set-up of this nature.

I think I'm gonna follow Fred's lead and keep mine as far aft in the cockpit as possible. Hopefully the fumes will dissipate and not flow up and over the bridgedeck and down into the main salon. I suppose that is a possibility depending on the way the wind is circulating in the cabin. I'm not sure how else to approach this problem. I would think the open cockpit is safer than the closed cockpit locker.

Roscoe
 

davisr

Member III
Yea, I guess the only safe way to have fuel tank within any compartment in the boat is to have the permanent, ventable kind. It seems I have read somewhere on the forum of someone doing this on an E25, but I'm not sure how. The E25 has its 13 gallon water tank in the lazarette, just beneath the cockpit sole. I don't really see how a fuel tank could also fit in there. I do remember reading on a blog some time ago about a fellow who set up an O'Day 25 for cruising. He used a permanent, cube-shaped metal gas tank. It appeared from the pictures on his blog that he mounted this tank in one of his cockpit lockers. The lockers on the O'Day are much larger than those on the E25, simply on account of the fat, untapered stern that the boat possesses. I suppose that that gave him the room for such a set-up. I guess this could be done on the E25, and I guess the E27, with a smaller, elongated metal tank.
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
Roscoe and Ignacio,
I agree with both of your last postings. I have a '73 E27 with an outboard and didn't really like the amount of room taken up by a gas can in the cockpit.
The previous owner of my boat had a metal can -stored in the port side locker with vent closed -brought on deck when used. I could still smell gas fumes inside the cabin.

I had an 4 gallon custom aluminum gas tank made with filler tube, gauge mounting, and a vent fittings. It's mounted on a glassed-in shelf in the same location that Ignacio has his arrangements. I mounted the filler/vent on the transom with hoses routed to the tank.

The tank was built by a small company I found on Ebay that makes gas tanks and fuel cells for race cars. I think I paid $150 which I found reasonable. The rest I bought from West Marine and a local Auto Parts store.
I'll try to post some pictures and dig up more information if you are interested.
 

ignacio

Member III
Blogs Author
Sounds good Grant. Thanks for posting any pictures...would love to see it. Incidentally, I got my '73 E27 at Owl Harbor and sailed it back to San Rafael last September. It took two days, and it happened to be the only day last summer that it rained!

Roscoe and Ignacio,
I agree with both of your last postings. I have a '73 E27 with an outboard and didn't really like the amount of room taken up by a gas can in the cockpit.
The previous owner of my boat had a metal can -stored in the port side locker with vent closed -brought on deck when used. I could still smell gas fumes inside the cabin.

I had an 4 gallon custom aluminum gas tank made with filler tube, gauge mounting, and a vent fittings. It's mounted on a glassed-in shelf in the same location that Ignacio has his arrangements. I mounted the filler/vent on the transom with hoses routed to the tank.

The tank was built by a small company I found on Ebay that makes gas tanks and fuel cells for race cars. I think I paid $150 which I found reasonable. The rest I bought from West Marine and a local Auto Parts store.
I'll try to post some pictures and dig up more information if you are interested.
 

davisr

Member III
Thanks Grant. Yes, I'd like to see some pictures of your set-up. The aft end of my portside cockpit locker contains a lot of wasted space - not easy to get to, since the whale gusher manual bilge pump sort of blocks access to it. That would be nice if I could fit a fuel tank in there. I guess that if it is vented properly, then there would not be ignition issues in the cockpit locker (if the shore power inlet and the back of the AC panel are in the same locker with the tank). With your set-up are all vapors eliminated from that space?

Roscoe
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
E27 gas tank

All,
Sorry that i haven't posted anything yet. I was out all last week on business and was not able to get to the boat at all. I'll try to get something together this week.
 

davisr

Member III
Hey Grant,

No problem. Busy time of year. Look forward to seeing those pictures of your set-up when you can grab some time.

Cheers,
Roscoe
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
Finally,
Here's the custom gas tank that I had built. It only holds four gallons... my thinking was that the outboard is great on gas and I don't motor much anyways. Turned out to be a good decision. It's light and if I ever need more, I carry a plastic tank on deck.

The tank has a 2" filler, a vent, and a fuel pickup. The vent and filler connect to a Perko brand fill and vent (p/n 1319DPGWHT) mounted on the transom. It's barely visible on the over exposed picture between the backstay adjuster and the rear pulpit stanchion. The fuel line exits the locker and connects to the motor. The line was a perfect fit for what was a marine 12V plug connector. I knocked out the socket and kept the mounting flange.
On the top of the tank is a mechanical fuel gauge. This was actually an after-thought but has now is proven be indispensable! What was I thinking? You definitely need a gauge. The gauge and sending unit is a mechanical Moeller brand #035750-10. The height of the tank (8") was based on the sending unit's requirements. The tank is flange mounted at two ends and blocked in with wood rails along its length. The bottom of the tank is stood off from the mounting surface (shelf) by an 1/8". This prevents corrosion from water collecting between the surfaces. I put plastic washes on the mounting bolts between the tank flange and wood shelf.

Fumes have been substantially reduced but not totally eliminated (the wife can still smell a bit of gas). My boat is not well vented below- yet. I'm think about a installing an electric fan vent system from a power boat.

I think this covers most of what I did. Good luck on your own solutions.
 

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