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Loose footed mains & Single line reefing on a 35-3

delwarne

Member II
Due to storm damage last July (aka Christmas in July )we're going to buy a new main and we're hearing from our local loft that a loose footed main is the way to go. Any feedback?
Also it would be time to add a cunningham and convert to single line reefing. Our boat is still stock w/slab reefing . All reefing ( both hardware and lines) are to port. Can I rig both reefs to the same side?
Thanks in advance.
Del
Obligatto 35-3
hull #287
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
Del, I have converted to a loose footed main and am very happy with the performance. 2 full and 2 half battens are also a good option.

I will be adding a track to my boom and will have both reef lines on the same side. I see no problem with it.
 

bayhoss

Member III
Lose footed Main

This year I converted to a lose footed main and it performs very well - no complaint. When sailing before the wind it seems to perform better than a conventional footed sail. Just my opinion.
Best,
Frank
 

delwarne

Member II
My understanding of lift leads me to think airflow is less disupted with a loose foot. Cool! How about outhaul? Is it used enough where I need to consider leading it aft? ours is still on the boom.
I'm an old dingy racer. Sorry for the control issues.
 

dwigle

Member III
single line reefing

I'd recommend against single line. As you know, outhaul is important and very hard to set with single line reefing. I prefer double line reefing, one for down haul and one for outhaul. I played with single line for a while but changed over to double when I replaced the boom. I had set up our old boat with double line and liked it so I used a similar system on our 38. Reefing is probably faster with two lines after marking the halyard and infinitely easier to control the two tensions.

Don Wigle
Wiggle Room
E38 38
Pt. Richmond, CA
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Nope on SL reefing, Yup on loose foot

Single line reefing, in theory, seems to promise the ease of taking in both ends of the sail with only one (!) line. In practice there is a cumulative load of friction loss in the system due to all the direction changes and also due to the natural high friction of line running reluctantly thru ss grommets.
I would not advise it, at all. Period.

Loose-footed mains, OTOH, have been the norm for close to two decades and seem to work fine. We have one and like it. It makes the clew reef easier, too.

:rolleyes: Opinions rendered while U wait...

:)

Loren
 

bayhoss

Member III
single line reefing

Let me second (or third) what has been posted on single line reefing. Just say "no". It is a more difficult system and it comes into use when things need to be easy. Stay away from it.

Best,
Frank
 

dwigle

Member III
Pretty much like Loren said

Because of the twists and turns related to single line reefing, it's almost impossible to get the outhaul correct. I did it once in the slip after several minutes of pulling and shifting things about, almost never truly happy when I've had to reef underway, which is a daily ritual in the summer on the Bay. The downhaul will always tighten first then bind and restrict the outhaul.

Loose footed is cool though, really tweakable, but I haven't found the need to move the outhaul to the cockpit. You can always try something similar by taking the foot of your current sail out of the boom and try it.

Don
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
There is one issue with Loose Footed mains that should not be ignored. Mid boom sheeting puts a tremendous load on the boom. I have noticed my boom bending quite a bit more than it did with the attached foot. It seems to me that the loose foot puts all the load at the end of the boom causing the boom to bow. Then you put the mainsheet at the apex of this bow and pull some more. I have had a loose footed main on my 38 for 4 years now and sailed in breeze up to 48kts upwind with 11 guys on the rail. My boom did not break and is not permanently bent but I have noticed the flex. See my posts with photos from a few years back. Perhaps Seth can comment? Make sure to mention this concern to your sailmaker.

Oh yeah I almost forgot. Single line reefing blows on anything bigger than about 24ft. Too much friction to overcome. Go double line if you want it all led aft or do what I do which is a reef hook with Dog bones for the luff and leech lines led aft to winches.
 

brianb00

O - 34
Loose footed main

Big advantage with loose footed main: you can douse the spinnaker behind the main and bring it in under the loose foot and above the boom. This is really a nice controlled method of dousing in a blow if your single handing or reduced crew.

Brian
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I use a sock on my spinnaker with reduced crew or when singlehanding. Dont like the idea of dousing into the main companionway as theres often me bottle of rum in the galley sink. Wouldn't want any sailcloth gettin between me and me run. Heyarr.
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
The group has spoken

Not much more to say about single line reefing-just don't if you care at all about sail shape.

The outhaul is equally important regardless of whether or not your main is loose-footed, so this should not be the basis for deciding whther or not to move it to a more accessible place.

As to boom bending, Ted is right in that a boltrope distributes the foot load a little more evenly-although if you sail hard you will see boom flexing anyway, so I think if you are seeing it more with the new main it might be because you sail harder these days-what do you think?

Either way, if it has not broken by now you are probably fine. It is a good idea to use a combination of vang and sheet tension in these conditions-it will reduce some of the load on the mainsheet, and actually the boom bending will help flatten the lower part of the sail (in the same way mast bend does). More vang also induces more mast bend down low, which is also desirable when overpowered...You will get the most benefit from this provided you have the proper foot tension (outhaul) for the conditions, of course.

To recap: the boom bending will flatten the foot of the sail, and the vang tension adds mast bend which further flattens the sail along the lower part of the luff.

Have I covered everything?
S, out.
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
When I bought a new main in 2004 for our 38 the advice from the loft was (1) to go with a loose foot, and (2) to not even think about single line reefing (which had been on my wish list).

Aside from the issue of sail shape that Seth mentions above, they felt that for anything over a 30 footer the friction of single line reefing was just too much.
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
One thought on Seth's comments. Boom bending on a loose footed main will not flatten the lower part of the sail I would think. Boom bending on an attached foot I would agree though. Am I missing something?
 

Sven

Seglare
One thought on Seth's comments. Boom bending on a loose footed main will not flatten the lower part of the sail I would think. Boom bending on an attached foot I would agree though. Am I missing something?

I was wondering when someone would point that out.


-Sven
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I was wondering when someone would point that out.
-Sven

This always gets me to pondering ( potentially unsafe activity for my aged brain :) )
about the foot on mains and how much "support" they give the boom. I was racing a small keel boat in the late 70's when the shelf foot became popular. This let the main have its designed-in foil shape all the way to the bottom, and the flat part of the bottom was sewn out of "bag cloth" as I recall the nomenclature from the sailmaker. My point, and I may have one, is that with the general acceptance of that particular sail improvement the length of the boom no longer received any "support" from the foot of the main sail.

I honestly do not recall if our boom displayed any visible bend on windy beats in those days when heavily loaded.... our boat had the main sheet attachment about 2/3 of the way back, and thence straight down to a traveler on a bridge deck. No one ever bent a boom though.

I recall that when I bought a new main for the Olson and asked the sail maker about his recommendation for a loose foot and putting, IMO, "all the pull back to the clew and the slider at the end," he reminded me that the end of the boom carried all of the force when reefed in really heavy air. I had one of those "Duh" moments at that point. In past threads about this topic here, Seth has already provided excellent commentary, and some site searching might be helpful.

Best,
Loren
 
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bayhoss

Member III
Tightning the vang

This is one heck of an interesting topic. I wondered the same for the boom bending when I started using a loose footed main. If the sheeting is in the center of the boom, the sail is attached at either end of the boom, does not the boom take the shape of a smile when it flexes? If so, it would seem that the distance between boom end and point of attachment would be shortened thus slacking the foot. But, if the vang is brought up snug and the mast flexes at the lower point, does this not bring the boom forward again causing the boom to become more linear to flatten the sail?

Best,
Frank
 

Sven

Seglare
In past threads about this topic here, Seth has already provided excellent commentary

For everything except flattening when the boom bends which occurs only if the boom can pull down on the sail as it bends. With a loose footed main you get the opposite effect as the boom bends.

'Elementary geometry my dear Watson'



-Sven
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
For everything except flattening when the boom bends which occurs only if the boom can pull down on the sail as it bends. With a loose footed main you get the opposite effect as the boom bends.
'Elementary geometry my dear Watson'
-Sven

My intuition is that you're right -- and some geometry may provide an answer. My hunch is that a 2 or 3 inch deflection in a, say, 14 foot span produces little in length reduction of the span. We need some calculations......
:nerd:

After all, when I change the outhaul, this involves movements of up to 5 or 6 inches.

Loren
 
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