E28+

E28+ setting up for chute

Hello Seth:

<HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffffb; COLOR: #fffffb" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->We are in the process of setting up an E28+ for racing but I am having trouble deciding how to keep the guy off the stanchions.
The boat is fairly beamy for a 28 footer, posing problems when reaching. I have considered a strut or a barber hauler, either one is not quite adequate. We could use both or double barber haulers??? Would the strut put too much stress on the mast considering the large 'chute (12ft.10in. J ). Any suggestions anyone ???
Wayne Foulds
White Rock, BC

A few options

With the right hardware, a reaching strut will work just fine. You need the mounting brackets which screw onto each side of the mast at a height which would put the strut a couple of inches above life line height when perpendicular to the mast. They come as a kit if you buy from Forespar or whoever you choose...

There are some other solutions-but please tell me if you are using single sheets on each side, or if you run separate sheets and guys on each side.

Either way, a lot of folks are running the guys INSIDE the life lines when reaching, and sometimes all the time.

Give me a rundown on your setup...

Where is the guy block, do you have tweakers (aka twings, and sometimes referred to as barber haulers since the same hardware can be used for this purpose)?

Give me the full picture of where all the sheet and guy blocks are located and what other hardware you are using-including how you have your foreguy (pole downhaul) rigged.

Once I see your setup I can give you more meaningful suggestions.

Happy Trails!

S

Hello Seth:
Thank you for your quick response.
So far we have raced only white sails with very satisfactory results, second in a major regatta finishing well ahead of boats with much better ratings than us. She has preformed well in a number of other races as well. As a result of that history we should like to fly a chute even though the boat is not set up for it, no pad eyes, no blocks, no foreguy. We are basically starting from scratch. The mast has two shives just above the fore stay where halyards would exit on the starboard side of the mast, needs cleats.
I thought of running the foreguy from a foredeck pad eye down either side of the cabin, on the deck, back to the cockpit with one continuous line.
The barber hauler blocks look like they should go abeam of were the bulk head is but I would also like them farther foreward to close the leech of the chute.
Finding a spot for the spin blocks is questionable. The toe rail doesn't work so just aft of the cleat which is behind the winch seems like a good spot.
We normally use two lines off the chute, one sheet/one guy on anything under 35ft., but I do like your mention of a guy running inside of the life lines. Would we then need a sheet on the outside to bring the pole back to the shrouds??
One other problem we have is there is no zipper in the v-berth making the installation of the D ring or pad eye for the fore guy rather difficult.
Looks like this is going to be fun. :- )
Wayne

Hi Wayne,
There are probably several "right" ways to rig your boat (and Seth will know what they are!).

While I have not sailed on an E-28+, I have done some crew time on the years on a fractional E-33RH. On that boat the "twings" are led thru swivel blocks on the rails and back to the cockpit area. this is helpful for reaches where the fore guy lead needs to be moved forward to the wide part of the boat and thereby kept off the stanchions and wires.

Then, I have a separate question about your fore guy. Since you have a smaller chute due to the fractional rig I wonder if you could get by with a "pole downhaul"? This line runs from the bridle down to a swivel block on the front base of the mast on the housetop. Then that line is led to one side or the other and aft 90 degrees thru a cheek block, back down the cabin top to a cleat. This lets the pole rotate freely in one plane for trimming the chute and avoids the constant readjusting required of a fore guy. Of course the flip side is that you can no longer "lock" the pole in one position with tension from the after guy and fore guy....
:nerd:
We used this classic "small boat" system on our prior 26 foot fractional rig boat for racing very successfully, but your size spinnaker might make it impractical.
Seth, any comment??

Another consideration is just where, for everyday use, to place the aft turning blocks for sheet and guy. I would, of course, experiment with locations from about the rail just forward of the primary winch and back a bit. Note that this position is seldom going to be all the way back to the transom corners like it would be for a mast head rig. (This is a situation where having a full perforated alum. toe rail is quite helpful.)

If you do decide on a pad eye in the center of fore deck, I could imagine taking down a section of the headliner and then re-stapling it. No fun, tedious, but not technically difficult at all. Our boat did come with a zipper in the centerline of the headliner. Sorry to hear that yours did not.

If you have some photos, please append 'em to your threads to help us help you.

Regards,
Loren

Loren Beach said:

Hi Wayne,
There are probably several "right" ways to rig your boat (and Seth will know what they are!).

While I have not sailed on an E-28+, I have done some crew time on the years on a fractional E-33RH. On that boat the "twings" are led thru swivel blocks on the rails and back to the cockpit area. this is helpful for reaches where the fore guy lead needs to be moved forward to the wide part of the boat and thereby kept off the stanchions and wires.

Then, I have a separate question about your fore guy. Since you have a smaller chute due to the fractional rig I wonder if you could get by with a "pole downhaul"? This line runs from the bridle down to a swivel block on the front base of the mast on the housetop. Then that line is led to one side or the other and aft 90 degrees thru a cheek block, back down the cabin top to a cleat. This lets the pole rotate freely in one plane for trimming the chute and avoids the constant readjusting required of a fore guy. Of course the flip side is that you can no longer "lock" the pole in one position with tension from the after guy and fore guy....
:nerd:
We used this classic "small boat" system on our prior 26 foot fractional rig boat for racing very successfully, but your size spinnaker might make it impractical.
Seth, any comment??

Another consideration is just where, for everyday use, to place the aft turning blocks for sheet and guy. I would, of course, experiment with locations from about the rail just forward of the primary winch and back a bit. Note that this position is seldom going to be all the way back to the transom corners like it would be for a mast head rig. (This is a situation where having a full perforated alum. toe rail is quite helpful.)

If you do decide on a pad eye in the center of fore deck, I could imagine taking down a section of the headliner and then re-stapling it. No fun, tedious, but not technically difficult at all. Our boat did come with a zipper in the centerline of the headliner. Sorry to hear that yours did not.

If you have some photos, please append 'em to your threads to help us help you.

Regards,
Loren

Click to expand...

Hi ! off the subject, you have plenty of correct answers anyway. Question
When is your club regatta next summer or spring" Possibly Whitrock could be a good place to have our Rendezvous next year also do you have any invitational races.

Chas and Judi E 30+ Eden Lynn and John Hilda Harris E 28+

sv-eden@telus.net

Hello Seth & Loren:

Attached is the deck lay out for a E28 taken from the Ericson manuel
on the website.
Thanks so much for your responses.
Cheers,
Wayne

And here it is, rotated and re-saved with a screen-grabber app as a JPG so that anyone can d/l and add text and mark it up with suggested places to put blocks, twings, and whatever.
Now all we need is a hull and rig profile view....

LB

28+

This deck layout is a 28-2 not a 28+. At least I have not sean a 28+ with a T cockpit.
I'm not sure where you'll put the blocks for the spinnaker . I haven't found the right spot for them yet either.
The farther the pole is forward the worse it gets. So I only use the spinnaker with the wind aft of beam. The boat likes it better that way.

I thought the 28+ was a fractional rig. If so, this drawing from an ad for one on Yachtworld might be accurate enough.
Maybe?
FWIW, I have never seen one without the optional wheel steering.

Wayne, is this one like your boat?
Loren

28+

Both the 28-2 and the 28+ are fractional rigs, but the hulls are different. The 28+ is longer in water line and J also. Then the 28+ is also 6" wider. The 28-2 draws 6" more. The 28+ has an encapsulated keel the -2 an external one.
Both are very strong boats. Although I find my 28+ to be a little tinder and very lively.

28+

I found some photos in a file I keep for the my boat. Hope there helpful to some one else.

Spinny sheets

Sorry guys, I have been travelling non-stop and have not had time to catch up here..

For this boat, the best way to rig spinny sheets is to make a Dyneema (or similar) strop which is looped through the center (open) portion of the stern cleats. You can attached a block to this loop via the shackle (snap or "D"). Make the loop big (long) enough to get the block up and away from the cleat so that the sheet can have a fair lead to either a cckpit or cabin top winch.

You need to get the lead as far aft as you can, because with a full sized kite, a lead which is forward (at the aft end of the outboard track for example) will be too far forward and keep the leech of the kite closed down (SLOW)...

The other thing which has been done on the 28's is to mount a padeye on the coaming (outboard vertical face of the coaming), and attach a block to this padeye. It is hard to get a good lead from here, and it means drilling holes in the boat, so this is not my first choice..

If you go with single sheets, you should install twings to get the guys dwon and forward. Use a sliding padeye on the outboard track, and set it at or just fwd of max beam. This can be a simple block on the end (which the sheet runs through) on a 3:1 purchase. The tail of the twing can be run to a simple cam cleat somewhere in the cockpit or cabin top (you will have to play with this to get it optimized).

If you use sheets and guys, I would not bother with twings simply because the boat and especially the cockpit is so small and cramped..

Always remember to release the twings for the sheet side of the boat-or the lead will be too far forward and you will close the leech down, which is slow and can create excessive heeling on a reach. The twings are primarily to create a proper lead for the GUY-not the sheet.


In this case, attach a block to the sliding padeye (at the same location as you would for the twings), and run the guys through this block. For reaching, run the guy inside the lifelines to keep the guy from pressing against the lifelines when the pole is forward). Most of the time this should be fine. When you will be sailing with then pole squared way back, you will want to run the guy outboard of the lifelines between the block and the pole.

The ONLY times you want to pull down on the twings for the sheets is when sailing at fairly deep angles in big waves and moderate-big breeze when the kite is ocillating back and forth-causing the boat to roll, or in lightish air and choppy water when you might want the lead forward (as you would with a genoa in these conditions)-but be careful-it might look better and appear to settle things down, but is is rarely faster to choke down the spinnaker. Remember it is a 180% sail, so the lead HAS to be aft most of the time.

If you feel the urge to choke down the sheet in anything but ocillating conditions, check your speed first, and see what the effect is. If slower, go back to the normal lead.

If you do decide to use a reaching strut, you could leave everything outside the lifelines, but again, with such a small boat this adds a lot of clutter and weight with marginal return. You will only need the strut when reaching with the pole way forward.

The foreguy can be rigged as Loren says PROVIDED you have some way (either twings or guy blocks) of securing the guy near max beam. The reason you want the guy forward like this is apply some downward load on the pole and to steady it down in puffs and waves.

Having the foreguy rigged as a simple downhaul like this does add simplicity and eliminates the need to adjust the foreguy whenever you adjust the pole position, but it is not nearly as effective in steadying the pole and is not as powerful, so you need the additional help of the twings or forward guy blocks.

Hope this makes some sense-I am still a bit thrashed from the week. Let me know and I will try to answer any specific questions or comments.

Cheers,
S

spin sheet

Thanks for the feed back
That is What I came up with on my 28+ so I wouldn't have to drill any wholes.
It works and the lead is fair to the winch. No outside tracks on my boat. Using the stanchion base for twings for now at 1 to 1 not enough power.
I keep the pole of the forestay far enough to keep the sheets off the stanchions. I'm ok with that
Thanks
Vince

Sounds good

No rail tracks? OK. You can use the stanchion base for the twings, but for sure you need 3:1 minimum purchase for them to be useful.

If this is the case you have 2 choices: stay with single sheets using twings for the "guy" side, or put a padeye on the deck at max beam just inside the toe rail for an afterguy block. You really have no other way to secure a block for the afterguys, and I would not use the stanchion bases for this. My choice would be single sheets. I assume you are set up for end to end gybes with your pole, right (instead of dip pole)? The way to tell is if both ends of the pole are the same, and I bet they are..

The only problem with keeping the pole this far away from the headstay is that you are not able to reach as close to the wind with your spinnaker as you would by easing it right to the headstay. I am sure you are giving up 10-15% AWA. With the pole an inch off the HS you can easily sail inside of 80 degrees AWA(assuming your spinnker is in good shape and is designed to be an All-Purpose shape, rather than shaped purely as a Runner), but at 12-18" from the HS you may not get inside of 90-95 degrees.

Granted in any breeze the 28 is not great a close reaching with a kite due to the tenderness, but in light air you will have to go a genoa while other boats can carry the kites at closer angles.

I say all this assuming you are using symmetrical kites. If you have an A-sail, you can just tack it to the stem fitting without a pole for very close reaching, and use the pole when the breeze gets aft of 110 degrees or so...

Sounds like you have it pretty well sorted though- enjoy!

Cheers,
S