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Fresh Water Puzzle

gulfcoaster

Member III
:confused:My fresh water pump burps and approx. 2 oz. of water runs from the fresh water vent on the galley sink about every 30 sec. or so when I have the fresh water pump on. Any idea what could be causing this? Also, when I open a faucet, the pump cycles on and off every second or so until I turn off the faucet. I do have an accumulator under the galley sink about the size of a fire extinguisher. Any feedback would be appreciated!
 

Sven

Seglare
Don't know about the burping but it sounds like you need to drain your accumulator tank to stop the rapid cycling.


-Sven
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Veeerrry Interesting !

Per the owner bio, this boat is an E-32-3 model. That's an 80's boat and the one I have been aboard has a foot pump for fresh and also has pressure water. There may be an accumulator, but some sistership owners will have to chime in on that. The factory did not put in an accumulator in our '88 boat, and I added one later.
There is a vent at one end at the top of each water tank (or maybe on the top surface... and that vent is plumbed to a spout on the counter for discharge into a sink or basin.

No way should any of those vent ever spout any water unless you are filling via the deck fill pipe and put in the maximum amount to the overflow point, IMHO. Now I remember reading here somewhere that some of these models have several water tanks and may have more than one vent hose T-ed together and thence run to one overflow tap.

The easy answer would be to say that running the pressure pump cannot cause what is being described... but since the symptom is real... there's gotta be a reason. Time for some exploration under the counters and following that vent hose all the way back to the top of the tank.

As to the constant pump cycling, ours did that too until I added the accumulator.

Keep us posted, and you other sistership owners can join in any time!
:rolleyes:

LB

ps: do a site search on the word "accumulator." Some good threads here already.
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Are you sure that the outlet at the galley sink is a vent, and not a water supply from the galley foot pump? Our only vent is in a similar looking vent in the sink in the head, so you may be assuming that the galley one is also a vent, when it may be a water outlet for the galley foot pump. We also have a normal galley faucet in addition to this galley foot pump outlet.

If I'm right, then I think Sven is accurate in suggesting that you empty your accumulator tank to reduce the cycling as a first step.

Keep us posted.

Frank
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
Burp the Baby...

Is it possible you could have a goofy air bubble somewhere in your system that can move some amount - but not enough to work it's way out of the system? When running, the bubble would move up - then you shut it off, it burps, drops out the bit of water, then retires to it's resting position, etc?


//sse
 

gulfcoaster

Member III
Good Suggestions guys!

Sven said empty the accumulator. How do I do this. Should the pump be turned off or does it matter. The galley has two foot pumps. One for salt and one for fresh. We adjust a valve under the sink to pump the cooler out. This valve had no bearing on altering the symptoms described above. The galley has a regular faucet as well. 20 gal. tank under the starboard setee. 12 gal under the port setee. I did fill the tanks to max. yesterday morning. I will also trace the vent hoses as well. We've owned this boat for nine years and it's a constant learning experience. Any additional info on the accumulator would be appreciated.
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
Start at your tanks (actually, I guess - start at your vent lines, then the tanks) and trace the lines to your foot pump and your water pressurization pump, then to your accumulator tank (can be smaller like a water filter, or larger (mine) about 2 gallons), then to your valved water faucets.

You should know where this stuff is (and how it's laid out) anyhow - for when it begins to leak all over your cabin sole and sail locker.... :)

Then draw up a map of the entire thing - and check the connections, how the hoses are laid out (any opportunity for a bubble to get stuck?) and any leaks or corrosion.

Then shut it off, open a sink valve to de-pressure the system, and take it apart (you want to ensure that your accumulator is pre-pressured, and will hold pressure without a slow leak. I used a bicycle pump and pressure gauge for this....

Use the opportunity to replace hose if needed, the accumlator if needed, etc. I once had a crack in my pump head that permitted the system to slowly de-pressurize.... Made me nuts until I found the tiny thing and fixed it... :nerd:

//sse
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I had assumed (oops, there's that word...) that the vent outlet referred to was the tank vent. I forgot that Ericson uses the same chrome brass "spout" countertop fitting for both the vent outflow and the foot pump-supplied drinking water.
:rolleyes:
In a pressure water system, you should either have a separate tank outlet for the non-pressure foot pump or... a check valve in the line to the foot pump. to prevent problems with the foot pump diaphragm. At least that's what a live-aboard friend told me after putting in duel systems on his 40 footer.

As to the accumulator tank, ours has an internal diaphragm and the air space cannot saturate and be lost... I believe that this feature has been present in accumulators for several decades, but then I sometimes believe things that are not so.
;)

Best,
LB
 
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WBurgner

Member III
Plumbing Diagram

To get a general idea of Ericson's plumbing layouts you can refer to my E381 plumbing diagram in the Resources/Documents section of this site. There will be variations by boat model and who knows what a PO might have changed, but it might provide you with some ideas.
 

Sven

Seglare
Sven said empty the accumulator. How do I do this.

From memory, subject to defects:
- Turn off the pump
- Open the lowest faucet to drain any remaining pressure
- Open the valve (plug) on top of the accumulator
- Open a valve or fitting connected to the acc., lower than the acc. and let it drain.
- Close the valve or fitting
- Close the valve (plug) on top of the accumulator (air tight !)
- Close the faucet
- Turn on the pump and test

I know it by heart because the first few times I did it I got the plug on top of the acc. water tight (I thought) but since it only leaks air you couldn't tell that it was still leaking very slowly.



-Sven
 

Bill Sanborn

Member III
Fresh Water

IMHO you have a small leak somewhere in the FW system. Even if the accumulator tank needs draining or not the FW pump shouldn't cycle that often. I would find the leak first. It may be as simple as a hose clamp needs to be tightened. One of the handier tools is a nut driver that fits the head of hose clamp screws. One cycle per 30 min or better seems about right.

My fresh water foot pump spout will discharge water every time the FW pump cycles. I tried putting a check valve in to stop it - no help. However once you stop the cycling the water loss is negligible.

The rapid cycling when a faucet is on may mean the the pump is supplying water faster than the faucet can discharge it causing causing intermittent pressure buildup. Try turning all faucets wide open and see if the pump runs constantly.
 

chaco

Member III
Check the Accumulator

Accumulators are Tanks with an internal bladder. The bladder needs to be pressurized to the ON pressure setting on your Pump (20-30 psi). The bladders eventually leak and the Accumulator will need to be replaced. The function of the Accumulator is to provide a pressure cushion to keep your pump from operating OFF/ON irratically as indicated. http://www.jabsco.com/products/marine/index.htm is a good source for Accumulator info.

What is up with that Burping ? ? :egrin: :egrin:
 

Sven

Seglare
Accumulators are Tanks with an internal bladder.

Not all of them. The ones that specify that they have to be upright do not have a bladder, that is why they have to be upright or the air goes into the rest of the system. Over time the bladderless ones lose air into the system even if they are upright, that's when you have to bleed them as per the instructions.


-Sven
 

gulfcoaster

Member III
Thanks for all the feedback.

Hey guys. Thank you for all the good info. I will go to the marina on 9/19 to investigate. Today is our 1 year anniversary of Hurricane Ike. PARTY TIME!!
 

gulfcoaster

Member III
Fresh Water Pump Still Burping!

Finally got around to tracing my fresh water pressure leak. I opened the faucets, turned off the system, opened the bleed plug on the top. Momentarily activated system (water blew out the top). Turned it off then proceeded to tighten all hose clamps. No visible water leaks but still burping. I do notice one difference. If I open the cold faucet, the pump cycles constantly. When I open the hot water, it cycles about every 3 seconds. Can the system lose pressure w/o leaking water?
 
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