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e25 centerboard trailering weight

davisr

Member III
Dear E25 cb Owners,

I am in the process of buying and e25 centerboard version. At the same time I am also in the market for a good galvanized trailer that I can use to trailer launch the boat in salt water. Since there are no good used sailboat trailers of this kind that I can find on the market, I am looking at a new Road King, Trail n' Sail trailer.

I have read all the information I can find on this forum concerning the e25. From what others have said, it appears that their total trailering weight (gross vehichle weight) is somewhere around 7,000 lbs, or higher.

Here's how I am calculating my potential trailering weight:

Displacement: 5,400 lbs
Trailer Weight: 1,200 lbs.
Equipment (motor, fuel, water, equipment, etc): 600+ pounds

Total trailering weight (GVW): 7,200 lbs.


Based on everyone else's experience with the e25, do these calculations appear correct? I ask this because the new trailer that I am looking at has different tire size options. The smallest tire size is 14C. With this size tire, the trailer has a 6,200 lbs capacity and a 7,400 GVW. If my calculations are correct, the 14c tire will be enough, especially since I will be towing the boat only a short distance from my house. If my equipment weight calculation is, however, incorrect, then I might need to upgrade to the 15c radial tire, which would provide much more weight support. I would prefer to have the smaller, 14c tires, as this would save me hundreds of dollars.

Attached is a document with pictures of the trailer and specifications. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Roscoe Davis
Charleston, SC


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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Roscoe,
Not everyone can launch/translate a Word97 Document format here in 2009(for instance I have not budgeted for the $$ MS Office software in way over a decade), so I opened your file in Textedit and resaved it as a more-universal PDF.
This might perhaps help a few others view it.

I also agree that a heavy duty trailer is needed for what is, truly, a "small yacht" rather than a light-weight trailer sailer sort of boat. :)

Regards,
Loren
 

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Rob Hessenius

Inactive Member
Roscoe~
I would spend the extra $$$ and buy the "beefier" trailer. 7200lbs is about right as you described, but you will push 9k if you plan to go trailer-sailing with supplies. Its crazy, but stuff adds up and you will be amazed at you GVW when about. I also do not believe 5400 lbs is true. Im not sure as to what they had on or aboard when that figure was came to. I have also never needed the tongue extension to launch or retrieve my 25.
 

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davisr

Member III
Loren and Rob,

Many thanks for your help and suggestions. That is, as you say, Rob, really crazy, that the GVW would be in the neighborhood of 9000 lbs when the boat is fully loaded. If you don't mind, I have two follow up questions:

1. What do you think your estimates would be for the three weight categories I listed above: displacement, trailer weight, and equipment?

2. I notice that your trailer has screwpads as opposed to bunks. Do you find these to be good for trailer launching your Ericson 25? I ask because the trailer comes standard with adjustable bunks. Screwpads bring with them a higher price tag.

Thanks for your experienced advice,
Roscoe

P.S. Rob, I have learned much from your many postings on various E25 maintenance issues you have tackled. Great pictures too. Looks like you have really gotten her up to speed.
 

Rob Hessenius

Inactive Member
Roscoe~ Here is my Sunday morning guesstamation, which is really not a guess:)

1. What do you think your estimates would be for the three weight categories I listed above: displacement, trailer weight, and equipment?

Boat Weight 6500 lbs
including, anchor(s), chain and rode, safety equiptment, 2 group 90 batteries, charger, sails, furler, lifesling, electronics, boat cleaning supplies, tools, drill, extra boat parts, docking lines, fenders, carpet, ass wipe, whisker pole, swim ladder, buckets, deck brushes, tillerpilot, shorepower cable, lights, fans, cockpit cushions.

Trailer Weight 1500 lbs
including; spare tire, mast raising system, 8' ladder, hydraulic jack.

Trip Supplies 1000+ lbs
including;dinghy, ice coolers, ice, 12 gallons of gas, 11 gallons of water, beer, pop, boxes of wine, Jaegermeister, cloths, food, eating utensils, pots and pans, grill, propane, crap to clean the grill, snorkling equiptment, towels. laptop, dvd player, cigars.

My point being, It just adds up!!!:egrin:


2. I notice that your trailer has screwpads as opposed to bunks. Do you find these to be good for trailer launching your Ericson 25? I ask because the trailer comes standard with adjustable bunks. Screwpads bring with them a higher price tag.


I bought a trailer that was set up for a different brand of boat, so I cut of the existing bunks. My original plan was to modify the trailer to a bunk system for the 25, but I stubled on the screw jacks and thought why not just use pads. Its all the same bunks or pads. I do like that I can really tighten the boat on to the trailer. It also allows for me to apply bottom paint rather easily.

My boat did not come with a trailer and I didnt care at the time anyway. After a year or so I realized this boat is awesome and would be great to go to different bodies of water. You might think that you might only trailer it a short distance now, but with a proper trailer you can go anywhere!! There are so many fantastic places that you can go sailiing with your OWN boat!!!
So you spend a few $$ more now, divide that by a lifetime of memories and smiles and its rather inexpensive.
 
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davisr

Member III
Rob,

Thanks for getting back in touch and providing these many details. I too would need to calculate for beer, boxes of wine, and maybe a little obligatory southern bourbon. In terms of trailering your boat, you indicate that you have done a good bit of travelling. I've not been to Oshkosh, but I see on the map that it is adjacent to Lake Winnebago and is not far from Lake Michigan. Lake Superior appears to be somewhat of a long haul away. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask yet two more follow-up questions (forgive me if you have stated this elsewhere and I am not recalling it).

1. What size truck do you use to haul this 9,000 lbs. load and what sort of gas mileage to do you get?

2. What's the farthest destination to which you have traveled?


I spoke with a fellow in Michigan on the phone about two weeks ago who had had his Ericson 25 cb up for sale about nine months ago. Although he had already sold the boat, he spoke with me for some time about his experiences. He lived in East Jordan, Michigan and usually trailered his E25 cb up to the North Channel of Lake Huron in the summer. He said that he had a one ton truck and never had and problems. He was of the opinion, however, that a 3/4 ton truck would handle a trip such as that just fine.

Likewise, I have spoken on the phone with a fellow in the mid-West (who contributes to this forum) who trailers is E25 cb but a short distance from his home. He uses a Jeep Cherokee and has been satisfied with its capabilities.

I guess everyone has seen the photos on the E25 cb brochure that is available as a download to members of ericsonyachts.org. Hard not to laugh when seeing what appears to be a mid-70s model lime green Cadillac pulling such a hefty load.

Thanks again for all your valuable input.

Best,
Roscoe
 

Rob Hessenius

Inactive Member
Roscoe~

I pull the boat with a 03' Ford F-150 FX4 with a trailer towing package 1/2 ton, 4X4. Pulls the boat like a champ! Tranny cooler and tranny temp guage is a must. Pulling the boat I get 7-9 mpg on flat interstates and highways at 60 mph. No mountains to climb, pretty level terrain here.

I have taken the boat up to Green Bay and have cruised Door County and Northern Lake Michigan and have sailed to Mackinac Island and Traverse Bay area. Great cruising grounds!!! It is alot of fun going to these places where the rich have paid thousands and thousands of $$ to own property and I come along and sail right up to the edge and then drop my anchor and enjoy it just as much at a fraction of the $$$ :egrin:

I have also gone up to Superior and cruised the Apostle Islands. It takes about 5 hours to trailer up there, but really just a "walk in the park".
This coming Feb or March I want to tow down to the Gulf Coast and thaw out from the fricking frozen tundra for 7-10 days of sailing. I have not worked out the logistics yet, but will after "real life" sailing seizes up nort!

I also want to cruise the North Channel and Georgian Bay, but want to spend 4-6 weeks doing this. Right now I cant get away that long and dont want to do it half arse.

Give me a call if you wont to chat, anytime 920.203.1876
 

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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
How much truck

1) Your boat is a lot heavier than the 2000# of trailerable sailboat I used to routinely tow.
2) No one here is going to advise you to use a questionable towing vehicle.
3) When it comes to vehicle tow capacity, bigger is better, i.e. safer too.

Having listed all the caveats and weasel words......

I have to to add that one would want to consider the trip frequency, distance, engine and trans cooling, and braking capacity of the package.

In '80/'81 I used a four cylinder Mazda two litre pickup for several years to deliver small sailboats, including several 20 footers that had a gross trailer weight of about 2K. The limitations were that I had to watch my spacing on the freeway because of brake limitations and that retrieving out of a launch ramp was *really* hard on the clutch.

It was, OTOH, the truck that I had, so, with the addition of a braced HD welded frame hitch, it did the job. Later I moved to a half ton dodge short-wide with HD cooling and auto trans. Interestingly enough, it also took a lotta feet to stop.

Then there was the time I helped deliver a 24 foot keel boat on a trailer (about 6K total weight) about 500+ miles including a trip over a mountain pass. His Olds only halted once on a long grade -- to let the auto trans cool down!

None of this exemplifies a "correct" way to move a boat.

However, our present truck -- owned for a decade and over 150K trouble free miles -- is rated, in print in the owners manual, for about 5950 # gross trailer weight total. (!) Would I do this without electric trailer brakes? No way!
:rolleyes:
My truck is a '98 Mazda B4000 2wd with factory tow package and a class three hitch. Five speed HD automatic. It's my daily driver and gets 20 mpg on regular gas around the city. Ironically, I have never towed anything heavy with it at all.

I would certainly prefer something like a Ford F250 SuperDuty diesel for your application, but distance and hills to climb are factors also.... and then there's the rest of the year when that truck is just a daily driver.

Good luck on your trailering choices. We always enjoyed summer vacations with the smaller boat in far-away cruising waters. Those were good times!
:cool:

Loren
ps: edit to add a picture of my mighty Mazda two litre 5-speed, 1981, with a 1600# Ranger 20 launching from a trailer...
 

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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Driving with an underpowered tow vehicle.

Loren, Years ago we owned a 25 foot Mac Gregor that we kept in mast up storage here in Marina del Rey. My trusty little 1970 Volvo wagon (4 cylinder) was all I had to launch and retrieve the boat and it did it with great aplomb. The secret to hauling out was based on memories of when a kid biking up a steep hill and riding from one curb to the other to make the climb less steep. Hey, that's what roadway switch backs are all about, right? So by turning the car wheels hard left or right immediately upon gaining the merest of forward momentum on the ramp, I was then able to easily pull the boat out without slipping the clutch at all. Actually if I can say so myself, it was a pretty cool little method. Glyn
 

Rob Hessenius

Inactive Member
Glyn~
So youre saying there is a way to tow my boat with my 73' Volvo, 4 cylinder,wagon?:esad: lololol
 

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davisr

Member III
Fellas,

Attached is my personal favorite undersized tow vehicle - the one I mentioned from the Ericson 25 brochure. Rear wheel panels do an okay job of hiding that excessive tongue weight. Or maybe not.

Best,
Roscoe
 

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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Little tow vehicles.

Rob, She's beautiful. Now that's what I'm talking about!!! If I even hear of you using your lovely P1800es to haul a boat, I'll personally come up there and take it away from you. My Volvo was a blue 1970 145 that I inherited from my dad after he passed away. I converted it from automatic to stick and put in a sport clutch (not really necessary it turned out). I hated those SU's but it worked just fine for launching & hauling out. Glyn
 

wolly bugger

Member II
back to the trailer

Here are a few close ups of my trailer. In making up your mind about the tire size, think about the peace of mind you will have the day you take your boat on a longer haul and not feel like you're pulling an overloaded trailer. Like Rob said, It just adds up fast.

If you are only going to launch in fresh water, you don't really need to worry about a tongue extension, But for salt water I like to use one. I rig one for my trailer that work nice and cost me about 200$.
 

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davisr

Member III
Stephan,

Thanks for providing this advice and these pictures of your trailer setup. I hear what you are saying about the tongue extension. I might just go ahead and pay for one (just to be safe), especially since I have experienced some salt water problems down here in the South Carolina Low Country with my powerboat set-up. There are some shallow ramps in the area that require you to back a considerable distance into the water in order to float a boat. Just a dash of salt water on the muffler can lead to problems.

Take care,
Roscoe
 

John Cyr

Member II
Tow vehicles/wts

I think Rob and Loren are pd close on their estimates above. Like George Carlin said: STUFF expands to fill available space. and we always have too much STUFF. 7.5/8K BOAT/MOTOR/TRAILER IS Prob a safe assumption. And then comses the stuff!

Upon purchase in 1985, I towed Asylum my E25cb from Pensacola, Fl To Meridian Ms. about 200 miles half freeway half 2 lane with a then new Chevy S10 Blazer. Upon arrival I immediatly traded the baby blazer on a full size 1/2 ton GMC p/U with the SM465 MANUAL TRANS. I used this combination back and forth for several years before towing the boat to San Diego with it.
65 mpn average speed for most of the trip and down to 35 or so through the mountain passes. Got about 8.4 mpg avg that trip with no overheeting issues (dont think I'd a been that lucky with an auto trans) One year or so later I lunched the rear differential bringing the boat up the ramp for a bottom Job.
(GM warranteed the repair tho it took them awhile)

If you anticipate lots of highway trailering, get the tallest wheel/tire conbo you can, the shorter ones spin way too fast and turn light trailer wheel bearing fires into a common roadside attraction. If its only around town, not so critical, Good Luck
 

davisr

Member III
more ericson 25 cb trailering info

John,

Many thanks for adding your experience and wisdom on this subject. In the time that has passed since last wrote I have made a deposit on a Road King Trail n' Sail trailer. Following everyone's advice, I decided to upgrade to the version that uses the 15D radial tires (Gross Vehicle Weight of 9990 lbs). Future buyers might be interested in the research I conducted concerning the four different versions available, since I had to find this out myself by consulting the parts and accessories section of the the Road King Trail n' Sail page, and then consulting the dealer (who then had to consult with Road King and then get back in touch with me). Sort of a headache. At any rate, if you look at my original posting at the top of this thread you will see the attachment, "Trailer Appropriate for Ericson 25 Centerboard." This attachment shows a picture of the trailer and lists the four different versions available with this particular model. The list gives the impression that the only difference between one version and the next is the tire size. Notice, though, that weight of the trailer itself (GVW number minus Towing Capacity number) increases considerably when moving from the lowest weight trailer (with 7,400 GTW and the 14C tires) to the next size up (8,600 lbs GTW with the 15C radials). The reason for this jump in trailer weight is that the move up to 15C radials requires an upgrade from two 3,700 lbs capacity axles (2 axles = 7,400) to two 6,000 lbs axles (2 axles = 12,000 lbs). Once this upgrade is made, then it is relatively inexpensive to upgrade to the next version of the trailer (9,990 lbs GTW with 15D radial tires), since this version also requires the 6,000 lbs axles. I should mention as well that upgrade to the 8,600 lbs GTW (with the 15C radials) and the upgrade to the 9,000 lbs GTW (with the 15D radials) both require upgrading from 5 lug hubs used by the 7,400 lbs GTW (with the 14C tires) to 6 lug hubs.

Executive Summary:

7,400 lbs GTW version (with 14C tires): not hearty enough for this boat

8,600 lbs GTW version (with 15C radials): better

9,900 lbs GTW version (with 15D radials): best

Why is 9,000 lbs GTW version best?

If you're going to invest the extra money to upgrade to the heavy duty axles and 6 lug hubs that are required both by the 8,600 lbs GTW version and the 9,000 lbs GTW version, it is worth it to pay a little bit more for the 15D radials as opposed to 15C radials, since it gives you 1300 more pounds to work with.

Price of the upgrade from 7,400 GTW version to 9,900 GTW version:

about $600

More Peace of Mind

priceless


Thank you again John (and everyone else) for pointing me in the right direction. If all goes as planned, I will be receiving the trailer next week. I hope at some point in the near future to contribute some pictures to the forum so that others will have a better idea of what this particular version of the trailer has to offer.

Until then . . .

Roscoe Davis
Charleston, SC
 

davisr

Member III
pictures of E25 cb road king sail n'trail trailer

Dear Forum Members,

Well, two weeks ago my buddy and I traveled from Charleston, SC to Oriental, NC for the purpose of transporting my new E25 cb back to Charleston. So . . . after many months of research, many discussions with forum members, and two initial trips to Oriental for personal and professional surveys, I am, at last, an Ericson owner.

I would have written sooner, but I have been busy the past two weeks with some initial projects on the boat, the first being the construction of four new saw horses for the storing of the mast (during this renovation), the second being the removal of stanchions for rebedding. I plan to remove other deckhardware this weekend for rebedding.

As I mentioned in my last posting, I think it would be helpful if I shared with forum members some pictures of the boat and trailer I have been discussing. Here are some explanations of the attached images:

Image 1: Haulout at Sailcraft Boatyard, Oriental, NC
Image 2: Preparing to Place Her on the Trailer
Image 3: Bunks Fully Loosened and Lowered, Ready for Adjustments
Image 4: Boatyard Workers with Wooden Lever and Fulcrum
Image 5: Ready for the Road

By the way, my buddy's truck was an F250 Super Duty Diesel. It did a fine job pulling her back to Charleston. We took our time and made numerous stops to tighten the straps - a necessity. Normally, this would be a six hour drive. We did it in eight to be safe. Back in Charleston, my lighter duty, yet still beefy Toyota Sequoia V8 4.7 liter had no problem pulling her down the street and backing her in my driveway. I have planned all along to tow her no more than a couple of miles to a deep water boat ramp on Charleston Harbor. For any journeys, by road, out of the local area that I may make in future years, I will definitely want to upgrade to heavier duty truck. Until then, I believe the Sequoia will do well.

Many thanks for all of your suggestions along the way.

Roscoe Davis
Charleston, SC

E25, cb, Hull#226
 

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