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GSI "Safgas" oven (CNG)

Akavishon

Member III
Cruising Maine for 2+ weeks now ... currently in Rockland, ME.

Tried to use my CNG oven last night, for the first time since I bought my boat (>2 years ago). The pilot light comes on, but the oven burner never ignites, and I've waited 10+ minutes (instructions say 1min).

The stove top burners work just fine ... anyone has any ideas what to try?

thanks all - Zoran
 

WBurgner

Member III
Let's try the obvious first

Zoran,
I am not familiar with that specific stove, but on our LPG stove we must push and hold the temperature knob in for it to light and hold it in until the thermocouple on the safety valve heats up and allows the gas to continue flowing.

You make it sound like there is a pilot light rather than electric ignition, so if the pilot light is burning I would suggest checking the function of the thermocouple, if so equipped, and the burner jets for obstructions.

You mentioned instructions. Does the manual have a troubleshooting guide?

Good luck
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Is it that it won't light, or that it won't stay lit?

If it won't light, it could be that the electronic ignition is kaput. Our stove top igniters died, and we just made do with a butane lighter after that.

We did once have a time when the oven would light (its igniter still worked) but would not stay lit. In that case I found that moving the thermocouple over a fraction of an inch to put it more fully in the flame solved the trick.

Good luck!
 

Akavishon

Member III
sorry guys, I wasn't very precise in my description ... well, neither the oven nor the stove have electric ignition, and I use one of those little propane lighters to light the flames.

That works pretty well for the stove. The instructions for the oven (which are on a label on the oven door, I don't have the manual) says:
1. light the right stove burner for ~1min to burn off all the air in the system
2. turn the oven knob to 'pilot' and ignite the pilot flame
3. turn oven knob to desired temperature; oven burner should self-ignite in ~1min.

Except that it doesn't, even after 10mins, and no amount of playing with the propane lighter around the oven burner will make it happen. Seems to me that no gas is making it to the oven burner ... will need to dig in and find that thermocouple thing, what does it look like? :)

thank you, Zoran
 
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u079721

Contributing Partner
sorry guys, I wasn't very precise in my description ... well, neither the oven nor the stove have electric ignition, and I use one of those little propane lighters to light the flames.

That works pretty well for the stove. The instructions for the oven (which are on a label on the oven door, I don't have the manual) says:
1. light the right stove burner for ~1min to burn off all the air in the system
2. turn the oven knob to 'pilot' and ignite the pilot flame
3. turn oven knob to desired temperature; oven burner should self-ignite in ~1min.

Except that it doesn't, even after 10mins, and no amount of playing with the propane lighter around the oven burner will make it happen. Seems to me that no gas is making it to the oven burner ... will need to dig in and find that thermocouple thing, what does it look like? :)

thank you, Zoran

Well it could be that the thermocouple has gone bad, or is out of position. The good thing is that these are pretty standard, and you should be able to find a replacement locally - if necessary. It typically looks like a metal tube, maybe 2 to 3 mm in diameter, that may be coiled a bit, and should be located near the pilot light. My rather limited understanding of these things is that the gas will not flow completely unless the heat from the pilot light has sufficiently heated the thermocouple enough to tell the oven that it is safe to turn on the gas.

In my case I was on a cruise and had nothing to lose, so I bent the tip to be fully in the flame of the pilot light, and that did the trick.
 

Akavishon

Member III
Steve, thanks ... I don't see anything that looks as what you're describing. Could it be that the thermocoupler is built into the tube which is the main oven burner?

None of the parts look damaged or out of place ... :confused:
 

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Akavishon

Member III
but, there may be something missing ... I don't think this is supposed to look like this? Maybe this is where the thermocoupler should live, and is missing?

Also, I found a 'Mercury Control Valve' at safgas.com, don't see anything that looks like this in my oven ... :confused:

http://www.safgas.com/store/Boat-Stove-Parts.html
 

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bayhoss

Member III
thermocouple

Your first picture shows the location of the thermocouple, but not the thermocouple itself. The thermocouple has to get very hot in order for the chemical reaction to create the small electrical signal that allows the gas valve to know that it is ok to open and allow gas to enter the manifold. Without it gas would freely enter the oven and build to dangerous (toxic and ignition) levels. The shield that is present is used to shield the flame and to direct it to the thermocouple. Look to the inside of the shield and you should see the thermocouple. That is also the location that you should be lighting your pilot light.

Best,
Frank
E28+ Valinor
 

bayhoss

Member III
2nd picture

Your 2nd picture is the gas manifold/ burner. The pilot should be close enough to that to ignite gas from that manifold once the gas valve is open.
Best,
Frank
E28+ Valinor
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
This is what a typical thermostat looks like. In your first pic you can see the tip of the thermostat peeking out of the side of the flame guide.

You should be able to get one at any hardware store. You should just need to know the length.
 

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u079721

Contributing Partner
There does seem to be a consensus here that you don't seem to have a thermocouple - though why anyone would remove it is beyond me. Perhaps the original failed and it was removed to find a match and they never finished the job? The photo that Tom added is exactly what I was thinking of, and in every installation I have seen there is one of those rods next to the pilot light. The heat from the pilot light acting on the thermocouple is what tells the system that the pilot light is lit, so it is safe to cycle the gas on. If you don't have a thermocouple, then no wonder the thing won't light!

Can you get a manual some where? Thermocouples are indeed readily available, but I don't know whether they all have the same specs or fittings.
 

bayhoss

Member III
Thermocouple

As I stated earlier (or hoped to) the thermocouple does not seem to be there. As stated by myself and u079721, The thermocouple tells the gas valve when its safe to open. If it is not there, then it may have been removed for a reason. Have the oven checked out before you purchase a tc and install. In the hvac industry techs. are trained to remove the thermocouple if a system is questionable as in leaking carbon monoxide or a chamber that will not contain fire, to make the system inoperative. Better to error to the side of caution. That safety device didn't unscrew itself and swim away.
Best Regards,
Frank
E28+ Valinor
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
You guys don't think that the picture shows the tip of the thermocouple? I do.
 

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bayhoss

Member III
thremocouple

Without actually having my hands on the oven I can't say that it isnt there. But, in the 2nd picture it isn't what you do see - it's what you don't see. And, what you don't see is the capillary line leading from the thermocouple. It should be there. The line that is visible is the 1/4" gas line that feeds the pilot. There should be a threaded fitting on the gas valve for the thermocouple to attach, look there to see if its connected.

Best,
Frank
E28+Valinor
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
"Trouble Shooting"

Frank, now look what you've started! All over the world worried spouses of Ericson owners are dialing the emergency number to report that their husband/wife has fallen under the spell of some strange internet chat group and is now gone down to the boat to stick his/her head in the oven!
:rolleyes:
:devil:

LB
 

bayhoss

Member III
Thermocouple / Head in the oven!

Should I consider a pen name for future posts?:cool:

Frank (maybe... maybe not)
E28+ Valinor
 

Willpatten

Member II
Jumping in late...

Are you pushing and holding the oven dial in while you try to light the pilot? I didn't see that mentioned anywhere.
 

Akavishon

Member III
Guys, great discussion, sorry I dropped the ball on this, was up cruising in Maine for a month (gorgeous!), with very spotty internet access ...

Now back in my home port, I will dig in again to investigate and take more photos. It's safe to say that, thanks to your comments, I now have a much better understanding what to look for.

Stay tuned for updates ...

cheers, Zoran

ps - Will, I'm not - my oven does not have electric ignition. I light the pilot using a little propane lighter.
 
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treilley

Sustaining Partner
I just returned from 2 weeks cruising Maine and also used my GSI cng oven for the first time. Once the pilot light was lit I had to turn the gas up on the oven for it to ignite. Mine will automatically go out and re-ignite based on the oven temp.

Mmmmmm, warm sticky buns for breakfast!
 

edgesbyrohde

New Member
GSI oven

Your GSI oven has either a deffective thermostat or a deffective gas valve. I had the same problem. The thermocouple on this oven does not cut out the pilot flame. The pilot flame controls the main gas valve. When a correctly operating thermostat calls for heat will raise the pilot flame from a small one about the size of a jelly bean, to a normal pilot size. When the flame heats the thermocouple bulb sufficiently (it is filled with mercury) it opens the main gas valve and turns on the burner. When the thermostat says there is sufficient heat then it cuts the pilot flame down to idle and when the thermocouple cools it shuts it off. In a nutshell if the pilot flame "modulates" when you switch it from Pilot to a heat setting then the main valve is defective. If it doesn't then either the thermostatic valve is bad or both. In any case don't disassemble this valve. The problem is in the mercury bulb and this isn't serviceable without the right tools and knowledge. If you damage it you will eliminate the possibliity that it can be repaired. I believe that you will only get be able to get a rebuilt valve if you provide a rebuildable core. I found a rebuilt valve at my local appliance parts store Kenosha Appliance Parts located in Kenosha WI. Jerry is the guy.


Another place that has an excellent article on this is:
Sure Marine Service. This link shows excellent pictures and gives good diagnostic help. The fellow that answered the phone was helpful also.

http://www.suremarine.com/stove-repair.htm

I'm happy that I fixed ours!
 
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