Cabin top hardware

Hello all,

I had some questions on installing cabin top hardware on an E27. I was going to lead some lines aft. So some padeyes, deckorganizers, rope clutches and a winch will be added to my cabin top.

I had questions about the molded headliner. I seems like there is some resin or something between the headliner and the cabin top in places and not in others ( but I'm not sure there ).

I was wondering if I had to cut out the headliner and put the backing plates against the cabin top.

Or can I just drill thru the cabin top and headliner and mount the backing plates against the headliner like the handrails.


Also, anyone have an opinion on what size padeyes and backing plates to use?

Thanks in advance for you opinions!

Ah,

I been given information that a mast step plate ( layline catalog page 41 ?? ) would be better than padeyes at the mast.


But I still have the headliner question for the rest of the hardware.

E27 Deck Hardware

I have a 1974 E27, and the "headliner" is a molded fiberglass part. Where the handrails and the traveler are bolted to it currently, there are cutouts in the headliner, and cosmetic plugs in the holes in the headliner.

Conceptually, I think it makes sense to try to bolt the headliner right to the deck, and the hardware being installed. Just like all of the places the headliner is attached now, I think every one of those makes the boat a little stronger as you tie all of the parts together. Very similar to the process of creating the deck with the balsa core.

I have yet to do this, but I have some hardware I will be installing. I plan to drill the first hole and then see what it looks like. The problem is that I think the headliner lies against the deck in some places, and has a sizable void in others. So, If they are close together and will just pull together when you bolt them up, I will paint a little epoxy between the layers before bolting them together. If there is a greater distance, a guy will have to fake it. Either put some kind of filler between them, or install it like was done with the handrails. I think the only risk of doing this is having crazing of the gel coat on the headliner around the fitting.

I am also still trying to assess the condition of the balsa core in my boat. I know some of it is damp, but I am not sure how extensive that problem is. I am waiting to install some of the hardware until I have addressed that problem. But, when you drill, this is a good opportunity to confirm you don't have a problem.

I like plywood as a backing plate. It is strong, yet has some give to it. I always coat it with epoxy before installing.

That's my advice. It's worth what you paid for it..........

Thanks Nick,

I glad I'm not the only one wondering about this problem.

I think if the gap betwwen the headliner and the cabintop is greater than 1/4 inch I'll have to cut it out. Less than that I'll inject some filler and make a nice thin stainless backing plate and finish it with acorn nuts. If I have to cut out some of the headliner I'll finish it off with a panel of thin plywood.

I really hope the balsa core is not damp. It does not feel spongy or delaminated. What do you do for that? Cut it open and replace!

Don't cut the headliner. I don't think that would look good no matter what. Epoxy is injected between the liner and the cabin top through small holes drilled through the top, (as you've already suggested.) If the gap is wider than 1/4", thicken the epoxy and make a paste, then push it in through larger holes. These holes are covered with your new hardware. Stainless or aluminum backing plates (where you can see them), would be the proffessional approach, (not painted plywood).

Most light hardware however, can simply be screwed to the cabin top without penetrating the liner. Think hard about it before poking a lot of holes in places. Also, there is no headliner inside those little compartment areas. That's the place where you can use nuts and bolts.

There is no balsa core between the headliner and the cabin top.
Spongey balsa core problems can also be fixed with injected epoxy if the areas are small.

Many older boats suffer from way to many holes and alterations from well-intentioned owners. (Like a grand old victorian home with new aluminum siding.) So be sure your ideas are good and try to do a proffessional job.

Thanks Jim,

I was hoping to get the winch on the cabin top above the little compartment. It is the biggest item to be mounted and possibly not as nice looking from the bottom. In the compartment there is a moonscape of resin on the underside of cabin top which has to leveled out.

As for the other hardware I strongly agree that in the number of holes, less is more! ( BTW: Ask a lot of questions, measure twice then drill ).

I'm liking the idea just drilling and bolting thru the cabin top and the headliner. Of course over drilling and sealing the balsa core in the cabin top and adding some epoxy to the cabin top / headliner gap.

Here's one solution...

Our prior boat had a cabin headliner of molded frp, like the E-27. I added some clutch stoppers aft, relocated housetop winches to the rear of the housetop, and added halyard organizers on each side of the mid-point of the cabin roof to direct halyards and control lines aft to the clutches.
Since I had an air gap of about a half inch (varying, somewhat) between the frp liner and the bottom of the balsa core in the cabin top, I decided to locate the new hardware on the outside first. Then I would mark where each throughbolt would go. Then I drilled a tiny pilot hole down with a very small drill. I reasoned that a small hole that turned out to be slightly in the wrong place could be easily gel-coated over...
Since I had measured several times before drilling, I had no problem with general location. With the "pilot" holes in place, I could then drill down from the top with the required quarter-inch or 5/16 drill for the thru bolt, stopping short of penetrating the headliner. Next, I would drill up, from the inside, throught the frp headliner only, with an inch or or inch-and-a-quarter holesaw bit. This way I could put a fender washer under each bolt (note that the load is virtually all in shear, anyway, which is good). Note that no seallant goes on the inside, only on the outside, under the fitting... You never want to have a leak that forces water into the balsa core. If you want it "done really right", you could over-drill the top hole, fill with epoxy, and re-drill to size.
And what about those neat inch-plus holes in the headliner? Plastic press-in plugs from the hardware store! I had some holes where I did have to use metal plugs -- had to paint 'em to match. I looked "just like factory" when I got done.
The hardest part was figuring out ways to hold the fender washer in place while starting the nut.... and the nut was wedged into the socket with paper scraps or a dab of sealant...


Was it worth the time/engery to solve the problem? Idonno.... I did enjoy the challenge, the boat was much easier to sail, and it brought top-dollar when I finally sold it.


Good luck on your project,

Loren in Portland, OR

Good idea

That is also a neat and proffessional approach and the same way that the main-sheet traveler brackets are installed. Those little plastic or plated caps come in different sizes, so they're very handy. You do have to drill neat and accurate size holes. (The plated ones will rust-up quick.)

If the cabin roof and headliner have little or no gap, then there won't be room for washer, nut and cap. If the cabin depresses against the liner when you walk on it, the cap will be pushed off and fall to the floor, (again and again.) Then you have to go back to through-bolts. Plan it right because there may be space for a cap on the port side but not the starboard and you'll want them to be the same. (Yes, that happened to me).

And last... Get a helper because your arms aren't that long. (And not your spouse because he/she already has an opinion about the time and money you have put into "this old bucket."

Hi Jim

My first question is the traveler is only backed by fender washers? If this is so then fender washers are good enough for the deck organizers and rope clutches. This is better than getting custom backing plates out of stainless or alumimnum.

I think the name for caps are "Finishing Plugs" I found them on the www.mcmastercarr.com web site. They are in sizes up to 2 in. ( I love that place for fasteners. When I look up a fastener in stainless they have a choice of stainless alloy! )

BTW Spouse said that since I'm going though this much trouble I should look at putting the traveler mid ship. To run when the bimini is up. ( use end boom sheet when bimini down ) She likes her shade. I said maybe sometime later......

fenders

Hey Rico,

Yea, stainless fender washers are just fine. They bend a little or you can double them up if you want. I can't imagine any loads pulling them through. I also can't imagine why Ericson didn't use them in the first place. Most all the hardare, including the winches and even the lifeline stansions just have these little washers and nothing more. (What a crime.) I guess I have replaced just about all of them by now. I always keep a supply of shiney new fenders in the tool box.

Where could you possibly relocate the mainsheet traveler? I am still trying to figure out how to get to the mainsheet if I were to buy that pretty blue cockpit dodger that I want.