Racing an E28

We recently got a 1986 28 with the 5.5 ft keel. We are in the light winds of Southern California. Is any one club racing your e28. Can you provide any pointers. We do not have a spinnaker but use a jennaker. We have a PHRF rating in socal of 186.

Is anyone planning on during the 2010 Border Run (Newport to San Diego) next April?

We have 86 E28 up in SF

Spinnaker is a must! The boat does well with them. 186 is what I rate up here in SF with fixed 3blade and cruising asym.

Get the weight out of the ends of the boat ie empty all the crap out of the V-berth locker - all the crap out of the cockpit locker - keep all gear center. Only take the water you need vs full water tank. This will get you closer to the 186 rating. Main trim is cruicial. Light air the e28 does really well - heavy air it gets harder to sail to your rating. The boat does heavy air fine just doesn't sail to the rating as well.

Haven't really raced much we took ours on the Vallejo Race in 08 but were in party mode with BBQ on the back rail. I did remove the outboard on the stern bracket and the Avon stowed in the Vberth locker though .

We flew the asym cruising kite wing and wing much of the way at one point hitting 6 knots and digging a huge hole in the water- boat drove fine no issues but it was clear 6knots was about as fast as she's going to go no matter what the wind did. We also own a U20 which does 5.75 up wind and hits easy 12s going down hill - so our racing interest in the e28 is purely for fun and not to be competitive.

Having said that wife and I have found the lighter air the e28 is quick compared to similar performing boats. Ours is a 2nd home though and probably has 1000lbs of cushy cruisy crap on it.

Couple of things to check though

Make sure your furler is up to the task - ours was original 86 profurl on the list to be replaced - the Vallejo race confirmed that when the jib tore the shackle through the head fitting. 30knots on the nose.

The original 86 shafer travler gear which was in process of being replaced ie Garhauler was building the new one for me. Traveler cleat failed. This was the trip / race home on Sunday. We got a great start then the old stuff started breaking.

Also the original Kenyon booms with center sheeting are a bit on the light side some SF boats have broken theirs - ours I'm in process of building up a new beefier one right now. Original is bent three ways and probably would not last 5 min in 20+.

See E28 upgrades thread - I'll start pulling together some picts and posting them. Its been a long process but the boat is looking sharp.

Also replaced our 86 life lines too -- next biggie will be dropping the mast new rigging some mast clean up ie paint and an adjustable backstay. Guessing this fall time frame for that.

MS Regatta

A couple summers ago we raced my E28 three weeks after buying it. It was the MS Regatta in Casco Bay, ME. Gusts somewhere in the 40 kt range at times. Over a third of the fleet, around 30 dropped out if I recall correctly, did not race, a couple blew out sails and one went sails in the water. I had a lot of confidence in Nereus and we headed out with a double reefed main and the furling jib about 1/3 out. On a reach we hit 9+ kts per the GPS. It was a hell of a ride. I learned one thing important - trying to go to weather in high winds with small sail area on this boat was almost futile. We had more wind resistance on the hull than we had HP generated by the sails and we literally were going backwards. Took us 20 minutes to cross the finish line once we arrived since the wind was on our nose. We did better than the Sabre 28 that was there when we arrived and was still there when the horn sounded for our crossing.
I was very pleased with how she sailed. It is no speed demon under 'normal sailing' but is a strong boat. I have been in 25 kt winds since then and she rounds up in a gust, but is still sailable.

dpddj said:

A couple summers ago we raced my E28 three weeks after buying it. It was the MS Regatta in Casco Bay, ME. Gusts somewhere in the 40 kt range at times. Over a third of the fleet, around 30 dropped out if I recall correctly, did not race, a couple blew out sails and one went sails in the water. I had a lot of confidence in Nereus and we headed out with a double reefed main and the furling jib about 1/3 out. On a reach we hit 9+ kts per the GPS. It was a hell of a ride. I learned one thing important - trying to go to weather in high winds with small sail area on this boat was almost futile. We had more wind resistance on the hull than we had HP generated by the sails and we literally were going backwards. Took us 20 minutes to cross the finish line once we arrived since the wind was on our nose. We did better than the Sabre 28 that was there when we arrived and was still there when the horn sounded for our crossing.
I was very pleased with how she sailed. It is no speed demon under 'normal sailing' but is a strong boat. I have been in 25 kt winds since then and she rounds up in a gust, but is still sailable.

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We have a 99% jib which does well for much of the SF Bay conditions bit on the small side for the light days. But fantastic for the heavy days which generally out number the light days in SF. The double reef with the 99% works well up till the mid 30's with no rail meat but given the short length it does take a fine touch via main trim with helm to find that balance point where it goes to windward well. I actually have a 3rd reef which as you pointed out is probably less power than wind drag. Most short boats really hate heavy chop and we've beat through some pretty big stuff spray from bow to stern easily clearing the boat. For 28ft the E28 is very beefy which is a major reason why I liked it after checking them out. Plus the interior was a notch above the others except the Sabre's but those were near impossible to find at a decent price at the time we were looking.

With some practice and a fine touch on the main trim you can get it to go to windward in a pretty hard blow. A partially furled jib isn't the same as a small jib as it presents a pretty large profile and isn't as efficient so I could imagine it being pretty tough going to windward well with a partially furled jib.

I'm convinced that the 99% and maybe like a 120% would offer nice performance in a fairly wide range of conditions without getting crazy on the sail options.

Though I would be curious to see if anyone has used the full on max 160% in light air - I bet the boat would crush its rating in light conditions.

We have had lots of fun with our cruising Asymetric kite - we own a Ultimate 20 which we race so the cruising Asymetric is old hat for the wife and I. We have it rigged with a nice sock also - so I simple walk forward and sock it - wife gybes the boat and I swing it around to the new side and unsock it - walk back to the cockpit and trim it up and were good.

25knots on a fairly tight beam reach we saw 6.6 knots through water top speed that was with a full water tank - and a fair amount of cruising crap on board not in light mode at all. GPS speed in SF bay isn't much use given our currents. Could have been doing 9 knots over the bottom. I think flat out hauling quite a bit of nice cruisy stuff our E28 might hit 6.75 through the water but she'll be digging one hell of a big hole in the water at that speed.

On the other hand our U20 does 5.7 upwind and easily hits 12's on the down hill run but thats the difference between 1300lbs and 700sqft and almost 9000lbs and just a hair more sqft. Fun stuff we love both the boats and are looking forward to doing some more club cruises in the E28 this next year.

dpddj said:

[snip]double reefed main and the furling jib about 1/3 out. On a reach we hit 9+ kts per the GPS. It was a hell of a ride. I learned one thing important - trying to go to weather in high winds with small sail area on this boat was almost futile. [snip]

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I think with only a 1/3 of the jib out, you just didn't have a chance to go to weather as the shape/draft is just wrong at this point (or really non-existent). It'll work reaching though, as you found out.

Sounds like you had a great ride. If you do a lot of sailing in high wind and have a furler, I'd get a true storm jib with a luff tape for those extra windy days.

Racing the 28

Thanks everyone for the input. I grew up sailing on SF bay in that 20 knots of wind..SO Cal is so different. If there is 20 knots of wind they call the race. Since we cruise more than race the jenneker is fine. Doall the pratical things like wieght reduction. we got a new 155 dacron and ithelps the boat point quite well. I am trying to get the timing for coming out the tacks. WHile she might be the best racer she has an ok rating and we have fun in the middle of the pack.

spinnaker size for e28

What size and type of spinnaker do you fellow E28 sailors recommend? I am thinking of getting a spinnaker and I am leaning toward an asymetrical, but I am unsure about sizing. I would love to hear what you guys think.
Pete

Spinnaker

Special K said:

What size and type of spinnaker do you fellow E28 sailors recommend? I am thinking of getting a spinnaker and I am leaning toward an asymetrical, but I am unsure about sizing. I would love to hear what you guys think.
Pete

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an AP asymetrical will work fine but for racing I would go with a symetreical kite they work better at deeper angels.
Vincent

spinnaker sizes

PHRF allows a spinnaker of 180% SMW, and this is the size you want for either a Symetrical or AP A-Sail. If you wanted a dedicated reaching A sail you might go with 165-170%, but for most uses go full sized.

On the subject of deeper angles, a full sized A-sail designed for running is just as fast as a sym kite provided you have a pole or articulating sprit.

The confusion most folks have about A sails not being fast at deep angles comes from the fact that most sprit boats cannot square a pole back, so they cannot sail deep, which means the sails have to be designed for reaching, not running. Boats with normal poles or articulating sprits often use A-sils which are designed for running, and they do great.

I would fly it from the normal pole at deep angles, and without a pole for close reaching (if local rules permit).

Have a happy!

S

a-sail

Seth said:

PHRF allows a spinnaker of 180% SMW, and this is the size you want for either a Symetrical or AP A-Sail. If you wanted a dedicated reaching A sail you might go with 165-170%, but for most uses go full sized.

On the subject of deeper angles, a full sized A-sail designed for running is just as fast as a sym kite provided you have a pole or articulating sprit.

The confusion most folks have about A sails not being fast at deep angles comes from the fact that most sprit boats cannot square a pole back, so they cannot sail deep, which means the sails have to be designed for reaching, not running. Boats with normal poles or articulating sprits often use A-sils which are designed for running, and they do great.

I would fly it from the normal pole at deep angles, and without a pole for close reaching (if local rules permit).

Have a happy!

S

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Seth you are correct, but there is a penalty, (lower phrf) for a articulating sprit or sprit in general . Also it cost a bit more to set up.

Didn't care for on the pole that much and it wasn't as effective as I though it would be. I've sailed this arrangement and found it more difficult and needed more bodys to work it out.

Vincent

Poles

Sure. I guess I am curious: To get good VMG downwind, regardless of whether you have an A-sail or a sym kite, you need to use either a pole or an articulating sprit (unless you are sailing a boat designed only for sprits, whose polars will show optimal VMG by gybing back and forth at hotter angles).

All of the E-boats achieve of best VMG at angles deep enough to need one way or another of projecting the kite to windward..

I get not liking to sail with a pole, and not wanting to invest in a fancy articulating sprit-so how you do go downwind?

Just curious!

Not sure bout your local PHRF guys but here on the chesapeake you wont get a penalty unless you are using something other than a regular pole built to max J. I built a pole to the J measurement thinking it would allow me to sail deep easier with the A-sail. I bought a used pole from Bacons, cut it down and put new forspar composite ends on it. Rigged the nice internal triplines. Set up a dyneema snotter and nice guys and all. Low and behold the kite is cut so nicely that I can sail wicked deep with it just tacked off the anchor roller. Leave the pole at home. Only really find I miss it in chop and light air. Light air no chop not a problem. I have found the most important things with an assym are getting a good cut from a reputable sailmaker (one who will come sailing with you) and making sure the sheet leads are as far aft as absolutley possible.

ted_reshetiloff said:

I have found the most important things with an assym are getting a good cut from a reputable sailmaker (one who will come sailing with you) and making sure the sheet leads are as far aft as absolutley possible.

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Hi Ted,
On this one point, I have found that very few sym. chutes actually want the sheet leads as far aft as possible, even tho most folks rig them that way. I also was told by someone to do that when I was starting out. When I got into some sail selling in the late 70's the loft mgr told me to move the lead around and watch where the curl would start or break. I admit to little experience with A-sails but with the standard sym. kind it sometimes turns out that the turning block needs to come forward a ways -- sometimes, surprisingly, clear up to a winch. (How handy!)

Especially true for fractional rigs, but also works that way for the spinn that came with our boat.

Perhaps it's best, after sourcing the best cut sail that you can, to trim to the sail and not to some arbitrary point on the rail of the boat. So, you are certainly right most of the time, but sails vary.

Regards,
Loren

Seth said:

Sure. I guess I am curious: To get good VMG downwind, regardless of whether you have an A-sail or a sym kite, you need to use either a pole or an articulating sprit (unless you are sailing a boat designed only for sprits, whose polars will show optimal VMG by gybing back and forth at hotter angles).

All of the E-boats achieve of best VMG at angles deep enough to need one way or another of projecting the kite to windward..

I get not liking to sail with a pole, and not wanting to invest in a fancy articulating sprit-so how you do go downwind?

Just curious!

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I Do use a pole for the sym kite but not the a-sail just didn't make that clear, we have finished a race kite up looking good with a broken pole on the deck.
Vincent