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E29 sails for S.F. Bay cruising/racing

Evan,
When you are just showing a little bit of a roller furling jib in high winds, you won't be thinking about pointing as much as surviving. The best solution to conditions like that, really, is when they are forecast just stay home and watch TV. Rarely do people with much sailing experience go out in heavy weather just for the hell of it. Of course, people get caught out. But then pointing ability becomes secondary to keeping the boat on as even a keel as you can, because you're going to get beaten up by the weather.
Last summer, after seemingly weeks of zephyrs on Tampa Bay, a buddy and I took my E-27 out in heavy air intentionally. There were squalls coming through, lots of wind, terrible visibility and all that awful stuff. We sailed with the hanked-on working jib only. No main. We buried the rail, did about 10 knots on some boards, got soaked and had a great time. We stayed away from the shipping channel, knew where we were most of the time, and when all the heavy stuff passed through we had to motor home. It was hairy, but more challenging that three knots of wind.
My buddy has sailed with me for 20+ years and we sail well together. That kind of stuff is not for the inexperienced.
Morgan Stinemetz
 

Phil MacFarlane

Member III
I want to point out that it is critical to be able to sail your boat up wind in any wind and sea condition, sans a hurricane. Evan plans on racing in the SF area. He has aspirations of one day sailing to Hawaii. This means he will have to do the Farallones races and others outside the gate. These races are held in the early spring and the conditions can be brutal outside the Gate. History shows them to be the deadliest US yacht races. This is because late winter storms came up for race days making the north coast just outside the gate a lee shore. More than one boat and crew have been lost because they could not claw there way off this lee shore, and an engine wont help much in those conditions.
I am not trying to scare anyone, I just want people to be prepared and know before hand what the boat and the crew are capable of. On race day people go race no matter the conditions. Not saying this is right or wrong just a fact. It’s the people that were not prepared that don’t make it back.
If you plan on being a Bay Area racer and plan on racing outside the gate, you should go sailing inside the Bay when the weather is terrible. You want to experience 30 and 40 knot winds inside the Bay before you experience them outside where the same winds have a much more dramatic effect on the sea state. Practice practice pratice, it’s the only way to become experienced.

Phil
 

SFWindChaser

Member I
E29 sails for SF Bay

Thanks "Czech Mate" for the link; I may very well bid on that sail - I'll take measurments on my boat but so far it looks perfect and even made for an Ericson 29. Thanks you Morgan and Phil for your continued good advice. I respect your experience. I have to agree with Phil that in San Francisco Bay you want to be well prepared for heavy conditions that can pop up rather quickly and possibly unexpectedly, and that being able to point well could be important in a heavy current, etc. Also Morgan, you mentioned that in high winds pointing becomes secondary to keeping a boat on an even keel, but isn't pointing often critial to keeping an even keel so that waves are not coming broadside?

Evan
 

ChrisS

Member III
Structural enhancements?

Phil, what kinds of modifications have you done to your boat to make it stronger and more seaworthy, and blue water capable? There are many threads on this site about what people would do to make these boats into ocean cruisers, but not much reporting from those who have done longer open water passages.
 

SFWindChaser

Member I
Bottom Paint

Since you have all been so helpful in your answers to my sail inquiry, and some of you are local to the Bay Area, I thought I might pose another question about bottom painting. I need it done, and while I originally was going to do it myself, I think that now I'm just going to bite the bullet and have it done for me in the interest of time. Any recommendations on an honest yard? As of now I'm mainly considering Anderson's in Sausalito since I live in Marin, it's not too far from the boat slip, and their prices generally seem comparable to other yards. Any suggestions?

Evan
 

ChrisS

Member III
I have used both Anderson's and Berkeley Marine Center for bottom jobs and have had good results. I wouldn't ask a yard to do more than a bottom job or other routine work unless I knew they specialized in that department, and I could get a referral from a satisfied customer for that kind of work.

There's also a yard in San Rafael that is a DYI place, but there are subcontractors who work there. A number of years back I raced a seasons on a J105, and the owner used a sub who worked at the yard, but not for it. You might call the yard and see what the owner can tell you. The J boat owner paid less for the bottom job than a yard changed and was happy with the work. I wish I had a name and number.
 

Phil MacFarlane

Member III
Hi Chris,

That is a big question. Without going on forever here a list.
Remember I’ve had Sail a Vie for almost twenty years. Many of these projects have been done two or three times and I’m not quite done yet.

When I bought her she had an atomic four that didn’t run. I didn’t have much money and didn’t know how to sail. I bought her because I needed a place to live plus I liked the idea of sailing away to exotic islands some day. I rebuilt the atomic and then about five years latter sold it and replaced it with a new Yanmar 3gm30 diesel.
The Yanmar is three inches taller than the Atomic and I wanted to keep the same look of the settee so I rebuilt the entire “U” shaped settee three inches higher giving me that much more storage.
I made a custom water lift muffler out of fiberglass that fits under the engine, settee version.
I had a custom 45-gallon fuel tank made that goes in the original area under the cockpit.
I removed the wheel, binical, quadrant and other steering gear and went back to the original tiller set up. The wind vane and autopilot have a much easier time not turning the wheel.
I replaced the rudder with a Carl Schumacher Cal 40 Rudder. I added gussets made of glass and pvc foam, fore and aft and on both sides of the rudder tube.
I replaced the old cracked wood spreaders with new wood spreaders I made.
I added inside track on the deck for my 101% and storm jib, boat points much higher.
I replaced the two main bulkheads that the chain plates are bolted to as well as the one in the head that the forward port side lower is bolted to. In order to remove the starboard main bulkhead I had to remove the starboard settee. Instead of putting back the same thing I built a much taller version out of pvc foam and glass, which is like a pilot berth now. I put wood veneer on it so it looks like the rest of the interior but is stronger, lighter and will never rot. This was a great thing because I now have 35 gallons of water and one eight D battery on the lower level of this area and a huge 6foot by three foot by two foot deep storage area with one large lid on a hinge. I keep tools, spares and supplies in there.
I lived aboard for seven years. As I sailed more and more and got into racing and bought more and more sails I needed a place to put them and I didn’t need a v berth anymore. Also as I would pound my way up the Bay from Redwood City in the afternoon chop I would look at the sides of the hull in the v berth flex in and out and wonder how long it could do that for.
I took my saws all and cut out the entire V berth. I ground down every inch of the entire v berth area and put in new bulkheads that I made out of pvc foam and glass and at the sides they go all the way up to the cubby compartments. I added eight more layers of glass on the centerline where the two hull haves are joined. And I added hull stiffeners made out of cardboard tubes cut in half lengthwise and glassed in place thought the v berth area.
After talking with Mr. King I re glassed the floor pan the hull everywhere possible. He said this should have been done at the factory but I guess they were skimping on the parts no one would ever see.
I added a single side band radio and tuner using the backstay as the primary antenna. I have an emergency antenna, which is a piece of ¾ pve pipe with copper wire wound around it and giant heat shrink over the whole thing. It works well, I tried it.
I have an apple lap top in a semi water proof case at the nav station with GPS NAVX program and AIS. Two VHF radios one in the cockpit one at the nav station. Three vhf antennas, one at the masthead, one on the transom and one on the stern rail.
Deck level running lights as well as a tri color and strobe at the masthead.
I built an “H” frame that holds a radar antenna and a 7-amp solar panel over the rear of the cockpit. The whole frame unit was built of aluminum scaffolding parts from Mc Master Car for under $300.00 it is only on the boat for long trips. Installs and uninstalls in about an hour including radar antenna and solar panel.
I replaced the wood hand rails on the cabin top with stainless tubing and mirrored the same thing below to act as a backing plate and give a hand hold below.
I rewired the entire boat. Every single wire except for the engine harness I put in. Every one. Every wire is a home run to the panel, which I put at the nav station. Every light every thing is a home run. There are only two splices on the entire boat; those are for the running lights at the bow.
I have a 135-amp alternator and a very sophisticated charging system. Two eight D batteries and an Optima Starting Battery all AGM. All Blue Seas Breakers.
A Monitor wind vane, which was the only self-steering for the first trips to Hawaii and Mexico and Back.
Later added an Alpha 3000 autopilot.
Replaced all the port lights with 3/8 lexan.
406 EPIRB
AVON four man offshore in a Valise kept below under the companionway ladder.

The list goes on but you get the idea. The boat has been a huge part of my life. It’s worth mentioning that I did everything my self. I have never paid anyone else to work on the boat although I’ve been lucky enough to have a lot of great friends lend a hand over the years.
If you were to see her in person you would think she was a piece of crap. She really looks bad theses days. She has 25-year-old LPU, which is well past its life. But she’s a sleeper. Everything works and works well.

Sorry for the hijack

Phil
 
Evan,
You'll sacrifice pointing ability without the main, but you'd be surprised at how much power you can get out of a small sail in a lot of wind. Truthfully, I don't "think" a lot if I am out in heavy weather. I just do what I know works, but I have 30+ years on the same boat. What I have come to like is using my working job all alone in a lot of wind.
To answer your question, close reaching works well for me in heavy weather as long as I don't have up too much sail.
Morgan
 

SFWindChaser

Member I
E29 sails

Morgan, I really appreciate your advice. You obviously have a lot of experience, and you have provoked me to think more about options in heavy weather. I have not yet been out in weather heavy enough to require the equivalent of only one sail up on my Ericson 29. But next time I am out in pretty high winds, I will experiment with different sail configurations to see what works best for me and the boat. Roughly how much pointing ability do you think you have lost using only a headsail, and why do you prefer it to using only a double-reefed main or some main and a storm jib?

Evan
 

CaptDan

Member III
I
I wish I had a name and number.

San Rafael Boat Works - Matt Butler: 456-1600 (not current info but might still be valid)

Great DIY yard to save money in. Matt's a colorful character, but you have to come prepared; he'll pull you out and put you in. Other than that you're on your own.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 
Evan,

You asked about loss of pointing ability with just a working jib up. The reason I was using a working job was because, given the circumstances, it was the only sane choice. There was enough wind to bury the rail with just the working jib and get the boat speed up to about 10 knots at times. My theoretical boat speed is closer to six knots. The reason that I didn't use the main--never even took the cover off--is because I was getting all I wanted out of the jib. I was just sailing, not racing. I suppose that I could have pointed higher, but there was no need to. Sailing in heavy weather with just the working jib gives you a lot less to do and precludes breaking stuff with accidental jibes.
With just a working jib, your center of effort moves foreward. It doesn't seem to make much difference on my boat. This is one guy's opinion. There are better minds than mine on this forum--Loren Beach and Seth come to mind--and I'd touch their pulses on this issue. A second opinion is always worthy.
Morgan
 

Emerald

Moderator
I know this doesn't apply directly to most of the Ericsons, but just as part of the general high wind conditions and performance discussion, I can't help but think about some of what I like so much about the Independence 31 is the cutter rig. Fully aware that I don't have the sheeting angles for pointing as high as the boats with a second set of inside tracks, but having the two headsails has proven to be a real plus as the wind pipes up. I've found that the yankee (genoa) in any state of "furled" really sucks, as others have pointed out. So this sail just gets rolled up and I sail with the staysail and main, reefed if needed. The boat balances beautifully with this setup, and the self tacking staysail is a boon in high winds for being easy to manage, especially if caught in shifting gusting winds. I find the addition of the staysail makes a huge improvement in pointing performance versus saling with the main alone. The balance also improves greatly. At some point, I need to seek out a windier day for some staysail only sailing to see how she does.
 

FullTilt E28

Member III
Might be pretty hard to find good used sails

Best thing to do - if your working the budget - measure all three lengths of your main - and see if any active onedesign mains fall within that range your chances of finding a nice used Express 27 sail etc are much greater than rounding up an old beat E29 sail. Same goes for the jib. Pineapple sail loft Kami carries used sails they might have something that will fit your sizes.

Wife and I picked up an 86 E28 couple years back - new life lines went on this past winter (note Richie over at RYC does nice work and has fair prices he did our life lines) - new clutches deck organizers and a dodger went on 1st year we had it. We also blew out the old furler replaced it with a used but current model Harken. Traveler was also shot - Garhauler built us a new one - went with their clutches too - new clutches - and custom built traveler $750 and I can't tell you how worth it that was!!! Easom rigging over at Brickyard had the slightly used harken furler and installed it for me for 1/2 the cost of a new one. Great guys over there I called all the local riggers and asked what used furlers they had they all had various used furlers Easom had just taken this one off a boat doing an upgrade to a twin foil system - easy deal for me and him.

I have a broken section of an Express 27 mast I'm building a new boom out of - the kenyon booms center sheeted were on the light side our original looks like a bannana soon to be replaced!

Next on the list is standing rigging- then we will venture beyond the GG on normal days vs abnormal calm days :) Been racing in SF and beyond for a long time - make sure your boat is ready for the outside conditions before you go solo. Personal EPIRB is worth it also if you plan on doing outside sailing.

Great boats!! HAve fun with it - so far the biggest update thats been the big winner (dodger!) also the biggest cost so far. We also have a cruising Asym with sock - easy beans two of us sail with it up and boat is great with it.

Our jib is a 99% at first I thought it was way too small - if I did get another sail it would be a 125% and I'll simply shop around for the best local loft price. I know pretty much all the local sailbuilders they move to the loft that pays the best and builds the best stuff every few years they change it up but for the most part its all the same folks building the local sails. Sylvia is great! I have her do work on my race sails for our U20. Long time friend good person to talk too if your thinking new.
 
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