Doyle "StackPack" Pro and Con

I was wondering if anyone out there can give me some feedback on their experience with the "StackPack" sail cover system from Doyle Sails.

I have a fully battened North main with Harken Lazy Jacks and am considering having the "StackPack" installed on my E-28. I'm hoping that if it is more convenient than the sail cover it will be encourage me to use my main sail more often.

I'm only 5'6 and find it really hard to reach the top of my sail cover where it wraps around the mast. I find myself wishing Sperry would come out with platform deck shoes! It is also a pain dealing with all the velcro around the lazy jack lines.

Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Sincerely,

Sam of "Nauti Jo"

I have never had a worse piece of gear on any boat

I had one on Aiki, and my opnion of it after having the Local Doyle rep come down to fix it four times, and never having it work right. Finally the rep for Doyle tried to sell me a new one!!!! (WTF?).

I have used a lot of marine gear, a lot of sailing gear, and my opnion of the Stack Pack can best be summed up by telling you what I did with it. I cut it off of the sail, jumped up and down on it, and then threw it into the dumpster. Had the environmental regulations been more favorable in California I would have burned it just to see it go up in flames!

Seriously if you can't reach the top of the main sail to put the cover on, you are never going to get the stack pack to close at all!

What you need is a real set of lazy jacks custom made to your boat, (Look up Boat US articles, Lazy Jacks, and my name and you should be able to find an article from Good Old Boat with detailed instructions to make them yourself). Then two folding mast steps mounted to the mast, and you should have something that really works. The stack pack is simply not it! I was told by the local doyle rep that they really don't work well on sails that you cant reach the top of the headboard on.... (What pray tell are they for then?)

I can't really explain to you on such a nice board as this one what I really think of them after trying to use them.

Seth on the boards here used to work for Doyle, and is a good guy, he even tried to get me some help but couldn't.

After having dealt with the local Doyle rep, I wouldn't buy anything from them if they were the last sail maker on the planet. They ended up with a couple of hundred dollars of my money to do nothing but make a mess that they would not clean up, and proved time and again that they could not read a tape measure.

Guy

Guy - Please don't baby us. Tell us what you really think.

I would also take a look at a dutchman flaking system. Here's a link to their website brochure:

http://www.mvbinfo.com/dp_03_SF_brochure.html

Stack Pack

I built a stack pack for a friends Catalina last summer, worked great. I wouldn't recomend one if you looking for a lot performance and I'm not sure how or if they would work with a loose footed main, as the bottom of the sail cover runs in the track with the foot of the sail. The outhaul may also be less efective. One thing however is that there is a zipper that runs the length of the cover at the top, would you be able to reach it?
Andy

good choice

Most sailmakers have an equivalent to the Stackpak, but IMHO it is the best engineered of the bunch. If your current main is in great shape, it is worth having the conversion done-otherwise you are better off to get the whole tamale with new mainsail included.

As for retro-fits-Loose footed mains do not pose any big problems-just a slightly different attachment method..
Enjoy!

S

Great for charters...

Hi there,

The contraption is really nice and good-looking. I was looking into it earlier this year and was ready to shell out some hard-earned dough for it.

But I have got quite an unexpected advice from the sailmaker who I asked to make it. He politely advised to avoid it. The advice was on the grounds of high cost and low life expectancy. Zipper on top of it gets a lot of UV exposure, and all the dust, soot and salt does not help it to live long as well. So, in 2 years it will need radical repairs, and in 4 years it will be unrepairable. Regular sail cover with lazy jacks will cost 1/3 of a price. If you use something like jiffy-jacks, you can even re-use your current cover.

Granted, those longtitudal battens in the StackPack make sail go down really nicely, but 1 boat unit is a lot of money for that convinience, and it does not last, apparently .


So, my sailmaker is a bad salesman but I like him for his honesty. And I am not telling his name .

StackPack is great for charters when that zipper gets daily workouts and the cover is rolled up at least 50% of the time. But with personal use, when it just sits on the sun 5 days a week or more, it may be not a good investment.


So, instead of spending money on it, we got ourselves a better main, new halyards, new sheaves and new boomvang.

Regards,
Stan

This is precisely the reason....

....I prefer the Doyle product over the others..... It does not suffer from these issues nearly as much as others, and offer a LOT nmore convenience than just lazy jacks and a regular cover..
You just need to decide how important this convenience is to you to justify the cost, but you will get 5 years without major maintenance if you do basic care and feeding (put it away for the off season in dry place)..


S

This is posted two places.

The same question by the same person is in two forums here.

My comments are more in detail on the other page.

Seth is a great guy, and if HE and HE alone were building one you might try it out.

Otherwise if a Doyle loft were the last sail loft on earth, and I had to sew a new spinnaker with my teeth, or chose to go with them, I would talk to my dentist about what to expect.

The stack pack I had was complete garbage, and it was 2 years old. It never worked would never work, and after spending a couple of hundred dollars with the local doyle loft, who could not read a tape measure let alone sew I cut it off threw it away and built my own traditional sail cover. I considered the lost money good tuition on the local sail maker scene.

The entire crew has told me how great the new cover is, and how well it works even without the lazy jacks. (The riggers boat is always the last to get rigging work isn't it?).

Save your money, make a good set of lazy jacks yourself, not the Harken one size fits none solution. A set that stows correctly and allows you to simply take the main sail cover off no Velcro needed, and keep the cover that you have without modification ( Or have someone sew up the Velcro flaps for you). You will be years ahead, with a lot less hassle.

Guy

And there you have it!

When someone with Guy's experience and credentials speaks, you have to listen....His experience with this product is just as valid as mine (actually more so since he is a consumer-I was the sailmaker), and it serves to point out the range of experiences we have in our industry, and sadly, how much quality can vary from one loft to another-even between lofts belonging to the same franchise.

If Guy says something hapened, I believe it-and just the way he says it did.

My opinion that the Doyle "design" is better than those of the other major players in the biz remains intact (and it is based both on using the product and seeing my customers' responses), but the best design is useless if it is poorly executed. What might arguably be considered a "lesser" design will perform wonderfully if it is built to the highest quality standard-even better than the "premier" design if that was built badly..Have I repeated myself enough ?

If you ask 10 experienced sailors advice on a topic, you will get at least 7 different answers-most of which will be correct-there are many ways to skin a cat..

Unless you have a lot of experience, the best you can do is seek advice from LOCAL experienced fellow sailors, and when considering any product from any local sailmaker, talk to as many of their customers as you can to find out their experiences with service and product quality-and try to speak with folks who have bought the specific product you are considering...even this is no guarantee of a good experience, but it will improve your odds!

And if you take advice from Guy, you can't go wrong!

Happy Trails!

S

stack pack

Well guys I know this probably won't get any attention. In 1996 I put a Doyle Stack Pack on my 36c. They gave me several options as to how it was made I'm not sure how they do it now,but had the option of an endless zipper, also an inner dacron membrane that was sewed to the sail. We went cruising in 1997 and are now in Trinadad. We've put on about 14,000 miles and it,s still working great. Have had to do some restiching but that that happens after 6 or 7 years. The the thing I like about it is, sail up in 2 min and packed in 2 min, also when you have to reef all that loose sail at the boom is contained in the pack, making for only a short time on deck. It also looks good. That's my Two cents.

Thanks!

If Sid and Seth and Guy visit portland and we all go for a sail, I will supply a case of local micro brew!

As our original sail cover wears out to the extent that further patching is probably futile...
something like the "stack pack" is looking better and better. I admit to some concern about the life of the UV-exposed zipper, also. One way or the other, some sort of lazy jack system is needed, anyway.

Like most things in life, the execution is just as important as the design. This dialog has given me much background to help me conduct a half-intelligent conversation with the sail/canvas loft.

Thanks very much to everyone. Having such a depth and breadth of real-world experience made available on a volunteer site like this is... priceless.

Cheers,
LB

Brew

Thanx for the invite but it just toooo )&^%$&# cold for me. Expand your horizons. Look for warmth.

UK version?

When I bought a new UK main in 2004 I went with their version of the Stack Pack, though I can't remember what they called it. It wasn't perfect, but I was generally pleased. Note however that their system is separate from the sail, and is essentially a sail cover with top battens in it and a zipper along the top, combined with lazy jacks.

I LOVED how quick and easy it made putting the main away. Disconnect the halyard, run the zipper forward, and that was it. If you were leaving the boat for any length of time you would also zip on the front panel that went around the front of the mast. And if the zipper were to wear out, it was easy to replace separate of the sail.

It is possible to rig these with a pulley system so you can run the zipper forward from the stern of the boom, but I never got around to that. It didn't really do away with the issue of boom height and access though, because you still had to get pretty high up to zip the front panel in place.

But if you are interested in the Stack Pack idea, I would at least give a UK loft a call. And from what I can tell from the photos, it looks as if North Sails has a "Quickcover" product that is essentially the same as the UK version.

StackPack info response

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my post for feedback on the Doyle StackPack.

I am not the most computer savey guy around and do not understand how a site like this is created but I must say it is truly an amazing tool as well as a lot of fun to visit.

Special thanks go to Guy and Seth who seem to be very active on the site and obviously have a great deal of knowledge and love for what they do. The humor in the comments is also a plus! I share the love and am proud of what knowledge I have gained over the last 35 years by reading and implementing the things I have learned.

Sincere thanks to all,

Sam of "Nauti Jo"

Doyle Stackpack Pro and Con

Thanks for all the ideas regaqrding the pros and cons of a stackpack mainsail cover. We are up in Salish Sea and don't sail as much as we would wish, seems we are always trying to make the time to cross through a narrows/rapids. I was wishing for a stackpack to replace my worn mainsail cover. My husband, my Captain, says NO. All your input makes sense. If I do one it would be a Sailrite Kit. I made all of our sails (main, furling jib, anchoring sail) and am looking at some kind of conversion for our main to a furling main. Any ideas on a furling main?

Walt and Marty Crichlow
Ericson 35-II, 1978
"Brigadoon"

Stackpak YES OR NO

There are several components to a Stackpack or Stackpack-ish system. Yes, the sailrite kit will allow you to convert an old mainsail and add the "new sailbag" for stowing the sail as it gets lowered. However, the lazyjack system needs to be well thought out and properly adjusted, and perhaps the most important aspect is the mainsail luff slides.

For these things to work well (IMHO), you need to upgrade the luff slides, and maybe add a new track ("Strong Track" by Tides Marine?), or even harken type luff track and cars.

Unless the sail will fall easily into the bag when you drop the halyard, the system is not nearly as useful. Most "stock" mainsail slides are not so great for this-they twist and bid on the way down, or are just plain worn out.

I only say this becuase there is more to it that just sewing on the pouch to stow the mainsail in..

Cheers!

Lazy Cradle

This thread has a few years on it, but the problem being addressed is as current as ever.
Our experience so far with the UK "Lazy Cradle" is very good. We had it put on while we were in Puget Sound last summer, and arranged a visit to the loft @ Sidney BC.

They had given me a great price on the whole kit, at the boat show in Seattle early in the year, and when they asked if I could extend the delivery date a bit while their new building was being finished I had cheerfully agreed. Then when they found that we were coming north with the boat in June for the Rendezvous they offered to do the whole install for no extra cost while we were in the neighborhood.
This worked out very well!

In use, we unzip and remove first the small front cover/flap. Then use the pull line to open the humongous-size zipper pull all the way back. Then attach the halyard and hoist. There are three straps and buckles inside to act "sail ties" but they are seldom needed. The sail drops back down inside with some pulling out of folds to be done but that goes quickly.

An unexpected benefit is the the whole sail in now enclosed on TOP of the boom. This will finally let us design a dodger that will not chafe on the skirt of the sail cover all the time. There is a lot less windage at anchor or the dock with this tighter and tidier sail enclosure.

Another pleasant surprise is a waterproof piece of shaped fabric that goes inside the cover, and covers all of the sail so that any incidental rain that drips thru the zipper will not puddle and mold. This is their "winter cover piece" and not visible on the outside.

If you look at my personal photo album here you will see that the newest pix show this cover in place.

As far as whether one brand/implementation of this idea is better than another, I just do not have enough experience to know.

Regards,
Loren

I just made a stack pack from the Sailrite kit, and it works just super. The main sail on my 87 E34 is quite heavy, SF Bay area needs a heavy weight cloth, and it was difficult and time consuming to flake the main and put on the standard sail cover. Add the extra work to accommodate the lazy jacks and it was all just too much. I have both front and rear reef lines coming back to the cockpit so I use them to help lower the main. I have a full battened main so there is a lot of friction pulling down the main but even without using the reef lines as a down haul, the sail would drop pretty much all the way into the stack pack. With the reef lines, I can lower the sail into the stack pack with the exception of about two feet at the top, but good enough to get in. The long zipper makes quick work on stowing the main.

Stack Pack

Since I'm 6'5", I've been thinking along Loren's line of thought that this type of system would allow for a taller dodger.

I approached my friend who is a rep for Neil Pryde, who also has a similar product.
Any chance someone has tried their system?

Although he also softly chided me for drifting away from racing towards cruising!
Unless I took the time to take this thing off during our Thursday night beer can racing, I'm guessing it's not the best thing for undisturbed air flow.

Seth, any thoughts regarding performance issues?

Guess I'm getting old, but when it's just myself and wife, at least I'd put the main up!

Still torn on this aspect.