Looking at a 35-II, lots of maintenance questions.

sailor11767 · Feb 20, 2009

I thought about hijacking my thread about livability, since it's all about the same boat, but figured a thread in Maintenance was more appropriate. I'm looking at a 77 E35-II that I started off looking at because it was local, even though I didn't want that particular boat. It's insanely priced (down to $29K, worth under $10K), but I'm figuring it doesn't hurt me to put in a real low offer and let him decide. But, the more I look, the more I have questions.

* She's got the unfinished teak interior, so she clearly shows any water leaks. And there are many. The entire hull to deck joint shows signs of water leaking, (despite Jack Horner's comment that it is a good joint). Is this a problem? Or just clean and re-oil the teak? If it's a very slight nuisance leak with no damage to deck core, I can live with it.

* Every single port shows signs of leakage. The opening ports, I could understand. But the fixed ports as well. Is this an invitation to core rot?

* The chain plates are at least 95% intact. A bit of staining, but NO significant bulkhead rot. Do I have deck problems to go with it?

* There's a lot of information here on refurbishing the ports, and that makes sense on the fixed ports. But, the "opening ports" (they are in horrible shape, and slide rather than hinge) are likely candidates for replacement. Since Defender charges just over $100 each regardless of size, has anyone made them a little larger? How well does that work?

* The hatches seem to be in functional condition. They appear to be "home made" (by Ericson, but not commericial hatches). Do they respond well to a little TLC, or even a complete re-build of the hatch (should be an easy job)? Or, does someone make a drop-on replacement?

* The companionway hatch is very tired and rotten as well. There are discussions here on making a new one, and that is do-able. But, has anyone ever had a piece of 1/2" acrylic bent to the curve, and used that as a starting point? Looks like it might be a really good place to start, very low maintenance, and adds even more light below decks.

* The cockpit cubbies are rotten. Does that wood provide anything more than a flat surface to put things on? Or is that a bad sign? And, if I drill out all the plugs and remove the combings, does that make the replacment project easy?

* The mast is ugly as sin. Not damaged, just aesthetic. Somehow, the anodizing has been damaged. Looks like someone used some sort of cleaner on it, and it now shows all kinds of streaky, swirly marks on it. Any thoughts? I suspect "ignore it" is the best answer, followed by "remova mast and all hardware and have it painted."

* The rubrail inserts are damaged and partially removd. I see that Wafco still makes and sells the inserts, and that can be done for around $400 or less, which is an easy answer. But, has anyone ever removed the entire plastic system and replaced it with a wood (roughly 2x2, but with some shaping to it) and SS strip rubrail? It sure looks like an easy, relatively inexpensive, and high return project.

* Parts of the bottom of the keel has been repaired with fiberglass cloth, very poorly done. I suspect that they looked at some grounding damage, and tried to fix it. Can it be ignored? I'll be crusing. I'm sure that a week with the boat in the slings, laying on my back with a grinder, epoxy, and roving would make a bang-up repair job.

* The boat has bunches of plumbing for the head. I see a diverter valve, thru-hull, deck pump-out fitting, even a small diaphram pump to move things when there is no pump out station. Notice I did NOT mention a tank. The hoses that went to/from the tank just stop. Where is a good place to put a tank, and how big can be put in?

* I'm seeing small cracking around the perimeter of the transom. I'm thinking it's no big deal, but my G/F is nervous. Any thoughts?

* Has anyone done any removal/reinstallation of the headliner? There's a few small issues with that, and cleaning it up would be a good thing.

* The main is essentially TRASH. Maybe it's enough to let me get a few sails in for the first season, but it needs to be replaced. It has been uncovered on the boom for over a year. Add to this the fact that the boom is uncomfortably high. I can stand up in the cockpit, and my head clears -- but more importantly, I don't know how I'd ever get that high to furl it. So, since I need a new main, has anyone ever moved the boom down 2 feet, added 2 feet of main track (can you get it?) and made a 2 foot higher main? Sounds like a win-win situation.

* All the interior cushions are in sad shape. Anyone have a rough idea on the price for a wholesale replacement on a settee layout E-35/II?

Oh, and has anyone found a way to do a search here with multiple words? The more words I add (google makes more words a SMALLER search), the more respsonses I get. "Boom Height" gives many more responses than "Boom"

Everyone pick an item and answer, and this will be a great thread!

Thanks,

Harry

Jarod · Feb 20, 2009

I will take a stab at a few of your questions. I have an E27 so went with the more general questions.

* The hatches seem to be in functional condition. They appear to be "home made" (by Ericson, but not commericial hatches). Do they respond well to a little TLC, or even a complete re-build of the hatch (should be an easy job)? Or, does someone make a drop-on replacement?

If the hatches are original they will be a teak frame with a piece of clear lexan inset. I refinished my forehatch and installed a new piece of tinted lexan and it looks as good as it ever did i suspect. It wasn't a big job from a time or cash standpoint so I wouldn't let that scare you off. I am pretty sure some of the E35 guys could point you towards a LEWMAR replacement if that is more to your liking.

* The companionway hatch is very tired and rotten as well. There are discussions here on making a new one, and that is do-able. But, has anyone ever had a piece of 1/2" acrylic bent to the curve, and used that as a starting point? Looks like it might be a really good place to start, very low maintenance, and adds even more light below decks.

The original companion way hatch will be pretty tired on a boat of your vintage unless it was very well maintained. In my case i had a teak frame done at a local woodworking shop and installed a flat piece of tinted lexan. It looks pretty decent to my eye, but others on this site have done a better job with "much better" woodworking skills than i posess. I like the look of an all teak hatch but do prefer the lexan for the additional light. I didnt go to the trouble of bending the lexan but i think this would have improved the asthetic for sure.

* The rubrail inserts are damaged and partially removd. I see that Wafco still makes and sells the inserts, and that can be done for around $400 or less, which is an easy answer. But, has anyone ever removed the entire plastic system and replaced it with a wood (roughly 2x2, but with some shaping to it) and SS strip rubrail? It sure looks like an easy, relatively inexpensive, and high return project.

I think i would go the Wafco route if you can stil get the profile for your boat; however, keep in mind that some have replaced the insert only to have issues with sun damage to the new insert within a couple of years. My boat is coming due for some work to the insert and if i can get some material I may replace. I live in Vancouver BC and likely the new rubber will hold up for some time. I know some of the Ericson owners have used a type of rubber paint to good effect at a much lower cost. I don't recall the name of the product but apparently it is used in the fishing industry to paint buoys and crab traps etc etc.

Sounds like you have a fair amt of water staining on some of the woodwork....if you have the skills and the time you could tackle this without a large expense....hopefully no deck delam, but that can be addressed as well...just money and time and then some more money and time.

Good Luck

Jarod

Loren Beach · Feb 20, 2009

sailor11767 said:
I thought about hijacking my thread about livability, since it's all about the same boat, but figured a thread in Maintenance was more appropriate. I'm looking at a 77 E35-II that I started off looking at because it was local, even though I didn't want that particular boat. It's insanely priced (down to $29K, worth under $10K), but I'm figuring it doesn't hurt me to put in a real low offer and let him decide. But, the more I look, the more I have questions.

* She's got the unfinished teak interior, so she clearly shows any water leaks. And there are many. The entire hull to deck joint shows signs of water leaking, (despite Jack Horner's comment that it is a good joint). Is this a problem? Or just clean and re-oil the teak? If it's a very slight nuisance leak with no damage to deck core, I can live with it.

* Every single port shows signs of leakage. The opening ports, I could understand. But the fixed ports as well. Is this an invitation to core rot?

* The chain plates are at least 95% intact. A bit of staining, but NO significant bulkhead rot. Do I have deck problems to go with it?

* There's a lot of information here on refurbishing the ports, and that makes sense on the fixed ports. But, the "opening ports" (they are in horrible shape, and slide rather than hinge) are likely candidates for replacement. Since Defender charges just over $100 each regardless of size, has anyone made them a little larger? How well does that work?

* The hatches seem to be in functional condition. They appear to be "home made" (by Ericson, but not commericial hatches). Do they respond well to a little TLC, or even a complete re-build of the hatch (should be an easy job)? Or, does someone make a drop-on replacement?

* The companionway hatch is very tired and rotten as well. There are discussions here on making a new one, and that is do-able. But, has anyone ever had a piece of 1/2" acrylic bent to the curve, and used that as a starting point? Looks like it might be a really good place to start, very low maintenance, and adds even more light below decks.

* The cockpit cubbies are rotten. Does that wood provide anything more than a flat surface to put things on? Or is that a bad sign? And, if I drill out all the plugs and remove the combings, does that make the replacment project easy?

* The mast is ugly as sin. Not damaged, just aesthetic. Somehow, the anodizing has been damaged. Looks like someone used some sort of cleaner on it, and it now shows all kinds of streaky, swirly marks on it. Any thoughts? I suspect "ignore it" is the best answer, followed by "remova mast and all hardware and have it painted."

* The rubrail inserts are damaged and partially removd. I see that Wafco still makes and sells the inserts, and that can be done for around $400 or less, which is an easy answer. But, has anyone ever removed the entire plastic system and replaced it with a wood (roughly 2x2, but with some shaping to it) and SS strip rubrail? It sure looks like an easy, relatively inexpensive, and high return project.

* Parts of the bottom of the keel has been repaired with fiberglass cloth, very poorly done. I suspect that they looked at some grounding damage, and tried to fix it. Can it be ignored? I'll be crusing. I'm sure that a week with the boat in the slings, laying on my back with a grinder, epoxy, and roving would make a bang-up repair job.

* The boat has bunches of plumbing for the head. I see a diverter valve, thru-hull, deck pump-out fitting, even a small diaphram pump to move things when there is no pump out station. Notice I did NOT mention a tank. The hoses that went to/from the tank just stop. Where is a good place to put a tank, and how big can be put in?

* I'm seeing small cracking around the perimeter of the transom. I'm thinking it's no big deal, but my G/F is nervous. Any thoughts?

* Has anyone done any removal/reinstallation of the headliner? There's a few small issues with that, and cleaning it up would be a good thing.

* The main is essentially TRASH. Maybe it's enough to let me get a few sails in for the first season, but it needs to be replaced. It has been uncovered on the boom for over a year. Add to this the fact that the boom is uncomfortably high. I can stand up in the cockpit, and my head clears -- but more importantly, I don't know how I'd ever get that high to furl it. So, since I need a new main, has anyone ever moved the boom down 2 feet, added 2 feet of main track (can you get it?) and made a 2 foot higher main? Sounds like a win-win situation.

* All the interior cushions are in sad shape. Anyone have a rough idea on the price for a wholesale replacement on a settee layout E-35/II?

Oh, and has anyone found a way to do a search here with multiple words? The more words I add (google makes more words a SMALLER search), the more respsonses I get. "Boom Height" gives many more responses than "Boom"

Everyone pick an item and answer, and this will be a great thread!
Thanks,
Harry

_______________________
Interior: late 70's Ericsons seem to have either the "older style" Mahogany or the Teak interior. By the 80's they had switched to teak, as I understand things.
Ericson built good quality cabinetry. AFAIK the original finish was oil, with a varnish finish optional for more $$. If you have an interior that started out with an oiled surface, all those decades ago, it will look rather unfinished by now... over three decades later. Teak can be cleaned and bleached out with a product like Teaka A&B and then re-oiled or varnished. We completely got rid of old water stains where the sealing around the fixed ports had long ago failed on our '88. Now it all looks like "new", bleached, several coats of varnish later. We like it that way; others prefer oil. Surface appearance choices are all subjective.

Hatches and chainplates on that series have been covered extensively in other threads on this site. Lots of good narrative.

Ports: I would take a guess that they were cut into the cabin sides after the teak plywood interior panels (about a half inch thick) were glassed in. The "core" for your cabin walls therefore is solid plywood. Worst case would be removing the ports, finding some rot around the edges, filling in flush with thickened epoxy, and covering whole surface with new teak veneer. The inside of the plywood is totally exposed to air and, while discolored from water, is often structurally solid.

Ugly mast -- put a coat of wax on it while you have it down for any re-wiring. Live with it until you are ready to paint it.

Rub rail -- I would stick with the Wefco insert, but it's your choice. The changeover to wood has been done on occasional other boats of that era, and then has to be re-varnished every season or the wood looks like Heck.

Fixing the base of the keel properly will be just about as entertaining as you imagine. This will build character.

Head and tank -- Some good threads here on the total plumbing system for an E-35/2. Do not regret this job too much... unless buying for full price from a more meticulous owner all boats of this age will need to have most of the hoses, valves, and the pump pulled out & tossed.
Time for a new holding tank and plumbing system parts.

Also, install a shiny new high-quality head like a Raritan PH2 or equivalent. Your girl friend love you for doing this. Her happiness is very important to this project.

Transom -- other owners of sisterships should have some cogent input.
Headliner -- if it's the vinyl beige headliner, you may have to pull out all 200+ staples for the part that needs replacing. Then mark out where you would really like to have new zippers. Take it to a good upholstery shop that is used to doing boats and custom cars to have a new one cut out to your existing pattern. Staple it back in with rust-resistant staples and put back the teak strips that should be there to cover the staples.... and.... as the say in the UK, "bob's your uncle."

Boom -- hard to know, sitting here far away at a keyboard, if it's standard for that model. Nice to have an experienced rigger and/or sailmaker have a look. You really need to post some pictures here.

Sails -- usually toast on any boat that you are buying for 30 cents on the dollar. No matter what make of boat.

Cushions: Any brand of boat of that age will need new foam about... 15 years ago (!). As to those labor-intensive covers, you have my sympathy. I am sure that you and GF are about to buy a sewing machine and start learning, or plan to pay someone else to do this tedious work. I personally know of one couple that wanted to make their own cushions. They build a new quarter berth cushion first, and, while it looked quite adequate to me, they decided to have a professional build the rest.

Another E-35/2 owner on this very site coined the wonderful phrase that goes something like: Time, Money, Skill : the golden triangle of boat ownership... you must have two out of the three!

Searching with this site software: I wish (!) there was a way to make searches by phrase.

Cheers,
Loren
:cheers:

Brisdon · Feb 20, 2009

With the boat out of the water, you should knock on the keel. The forward section should sound hollow. If it's not, if it sounds solid, than it's breached and there is water inside, which indicates a sizable repair. The hull is laid up in two halves, and that seam can be split in a hard grounding. As far a core delamination, You will want to walk the decks out to check for popping and squeeking and areas that wiggle under foot. Also you need to look for visual signs of cabin deformation from the mast load. For instance if the latch for the head door is way out of line with the strike plate in the compression post, if you see hogging in the sides of the boat where the main bulk head is tabbed in to the hull, wide gaps where the cabin sole meets the cabin furniture, etc. You have to make sure the health of the basic hull warrants all the improvements you imagine making.

sailor11767 · Feb 20, 2009

Brisdon -- good idea on the keel. She's been on the hard all winter and may have drained out, but that's still a good thing to try.

Loren -- As usual, a quick and thoughtful reply. Thanks. Just a few clarifications:
* I expect the sails to need replacement, and it's a big part of my potential lowball offer. Bacon Sails makes new as well as their used line, and they have quoted something that sounds pretty good at around $4K for a main and jib. Hard to believe, but it almost seems you'd rather get a boat with good sails and no engine, than this boat's good engine and shot sails. The real question to address at the time of sail replacement is the possibility of moving the boom down from it's factory location -- gain 20 SF of sail (usefull on our Chesapeake summers!), and make the boom reachable for sail furling. Another possiblity is putting the gooseneck on a track so it drops a bit when the sail comes down.
* Your discussion on the cabin construction is obvious -- of course, I completely missed it! Somehow, I was thinking of the construction as the typical sandwich, and I was imagining a potentially rotted interior core. With the construction as an "open face sandwich" it makes it real easy to assess the extent of any rot. Now I need to go back and look with my new enlightenment.
* The teak is currently oiled. My personal preference would be varnished blond mahogany, but the teak works and certainly is an easy material to maintain and restore. The boat I grew up on was a veritable teak farm. My real concern about the water staining on the teak "ceiling" is the source of the water -- if it's the hull to deck joint, what does this mean?
* The holding tank is a concern. I'm not sure where it used to be, so I'm not sure where to put one in. Also, regardless of where it USED to be, I'd like to know the BEST place to put it.
* A new item to discuss -- waterline height. The boat has a few barnacles on the boot stripe, and I see evidence that it has been raised from the factory location. Does this mean that the boat had been loaded with gear, or does it mean that it spent a lot of its time with a foot of water in the bilge? Best answer I guess is to just sail it for a year and watch it, but I'm wondering if people have history with this issue.

Thanks all for reading and commenting. Maybe I'll offer him a price *I* can't refuse (but he probably will.....)

Harry

tenders · Feb 20, 2009

* The cockpit cubbies are rotten. Does that wood provide anything more than a flat surface to put things on? Or is that a bad sign? And, if I drill out all the plugs and remove the combings, does that make the replacment project easy?

Nope, that wood is just a surface. Ugly, but an easy fix as these things go. I scraped out delaminated plywood in my 32, poured in epoxy, and painted. Years later I also removed the coaming boards just as you mention. The cubby bases were not much more accessible with the boards off.

ChrisS · Feb 21, 2009

Harry--

In the almost three years I've owned my 32-2, I have done many of the projects you would be looking at doing if you bought the boat you are looking at, including the head and holding tank system, which I just finished yesterday. All of these projects are do-able, but they cost time and money, usually more of both than you will initially estimate.

How are the other things on the boat that aren't cosmetic, like the steering system, and the wiring? My boat's PO did a lot of work in this area--he had the skill sets and time to tackle the big ones--but I still have put a great deal of my own dollars and sweat to get her the way I want her.

I don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but wait and look at as many boats as you can before you make a commitment. The 35-2 is a beautiful boat, and you might find one that is in sailaway shape for a decent price; in the end, you will spend more time sailing her and less money than you would if you had gotten the fixer. Any boat of this vintage is going to require maintanance, but dealing with a long list of problems on top of the normal repairs will be costly and frustrating.

Just my $.02, but in the end, you can't go wrong with an Ericson.

chaco · Feb 22, 2009

Diesel or Gas ?

Is the engine diesel or gas ? As it is gas (atomic 4) she's worth around $5K.
Replacement to diesel ($10K-20K) is not a GOOD financial option. The gas boats are salvaged out of the Harbor for their Slip Value here

The Holding Tank is located under the Settee on the wall next to the Head.
Max volume is 15 GA. This sounds like a huge Project Boat. You would do better to spend $30-$40K and spend your time Sailing a boat without so many ISSUES.

Good Luck to you :egrin:

Loren Beach · Feb 22, 2009

"What Dan and Chris said."

And, to add a more optimistic Opinion: Time is the one factor that will change this situation, however.

If you buy a boat that needs a lot of work, do the work, and then enjoy that boat for at least another decade, your investment will amortize out in enjoyment, if not all of your labor or much of the money.

When we bought a fixer-upper in '94, we knew we would have to own it for at least a decade, and we still have it.

While we have a lot of hours invested in it, and also quite a bit of money, it indeed proved to be the right boat for the long haul, for us. We would have liked to have a boat this nice in 1994, but no way could we afford such a boat then. Sweat equity works really well as an ownership scheme... as long as you do not mind applying that "sweat" in large pails at times...

If you can visualize yourself sailing that boat and still being in love with it in 2019, then it might indeed be the right deal... and if not... back to the boating version of the dating scene!

Cheers,
LB

chaco · Feb 22, 2009

Now is theTime

Thank you Loren for putting things in perspective. Boat values have obviously plummeted with our Economy. That Weekend Hobby Boat has become a Mortgage Payment. Now is the Time for Boat Bargains...and they will even get Cheaper over the next 2-5 years....just like Real Estate. I shop on CraigsList just for FUN these days. I have seen 30'-35' Ericsons go for as little as $5K-$10K WITH THE SLIP....whoa ! My advice is to SHOP SHOP SHOP for that DreamBoat....they are out there

sailor11767 · Feb 24, 2009

The good, informative replies keep coming in! What a site.

The boat has a very good condition replacement Yanmar, which is a plus.

The math on the boat is this:

Asking price -- $29K -- what a joke.

Going price for decent 35/II is someplace south of $20K

Price for "mandatory" upgrades and repairs for this boat (like new sails, autopilot, roller furling, holding tank, etc) -- $10K

Discount for sad condition and non-mandatory upgrades (stained formica, factory original cushions, dirt, finishes needing redoing, etc) and the "headache factor" for not buying one of those $20K boats -- $5K.

Likely offer from me -- $5K

Likely counter from him -- PTHHHHHTTTTTT!

But hey, I know what his boat is worth to me, he knows what it is worth to him.

Now, with regard to the time (time is a big factor in boats, for sure!), the time needed to get her sailing is measured in days, not weeks. She'll need:
* Bottom paint
* New main
* A weekend of scrubbing, cleaning, and more scrubbing.
* I'm sure I'll get grief for this, but I'd put the holding tank as first on the list AFTER the above three items and going out sailing.
After that, the rest of the list begins.

The point is that I think she is able to go weekend cruising quickly, although there are many things I'll want to be working on. The real thing is that I can start to enjoy her for a minimum investment of time and money, and if the enjoyment justifies it, the time and money becomes easier to invest.

My cruising group is sponsoring a get together and then a field trip to members boats with a surveyor early next month. Based upon what I learn, I am hoping to put in an offer before March 10. Of course, on March 11, I'll be looking for the next dream.

Thanks all, keep the thoughts rolling!

Harry
Wannabe 35/II owner
Current Lightning owner

Brisdon · Feb 24, 2009

I bought my E-35 about ten years ago. They were asking 27K. I ended up paying 14K after a lot of back and forth. They laughed at my offers for months and then finally caved in and sold it to me. If it really feels right, and the basic shell of the boat isn't dweebed and demented beyond the realm of your skills and a reasonable amount of cash, then go for it. Just keep getting back to them to reaffirm your low but persistent offer. In this market, you have a real chance that it will sit there until they cave in for your price. The E-35 is a great boat. When they designed them and built them, I don't think they were shooting for a boat half this good. They miscalculated terribly. Good luck.

Loren Beach · Feb 24, 2009

Pricing -- Oh My!

sailor11767 said:
The good, informative replies keep coming in! What a site.

The boat has a very good condition replacement Yanmar, which is a plus.

The math on the boat is this:

Asking price -- $29K -- what a joke.

Going price for decent 35/II is someplace south of $20K

Price for "mandatory" upgrades and repairs for this boat (like new sails, autopilot, roller furling, holding tank, etc) -- $10K

Discount for sad condition and non-mandatory upgrades (stained formica, factory original cushions, dirt, finishes needing redoing, etc) and the "headache factor" for not buying one of those $20K boats -- $5K.

Likely offer from me -- $5K
Likely counter from him -- PTHHHHHTTTTTT!
But hey, I know what his boat is worth to me, he knows what it is worth to him.

This reminds of some advice we got from a friend who went from being a skilled boat builder to a marine surveyor. Back in the day, we were boat shopping, getting a bit depressed by the condition vs the price of most of what we were being shown. His advice was to list out the features and level of maintenance that would command top "turn key" dollar in our market. Then, list out the work needed, at normal yard rates, to bring the specific boat being offered up that level. Subtract the needed investment in $ from the top "turn key" value. Offer the seller the amount under that subtraction. I quickly found that quite a few used boats would require that the owner pay US thousands of dollars to take their accumulated repair list of a neglected boat!

At that time we had more time than money, and so kept shopping until we found a reasonably good deal on a boat that we could invest a bunch of our own labor into. We bought it in '94 and of course still have it.

The truly sad thing is that a lot of sellers really seem to have no idea how their lack of any maintenance, coupled with constant exposure to sea air, has depleted the once-higher value of their old boat. It's kind of like some sort of "stubborn ignorance." As JImmy Buffet might say, these people need some "mental floss."
I had more than one broker agree with my pricing/offering strategy, and then just sigh and say that the seller in question was not realistic and might never change.

Now that more sellers are being "motivated" by the financial times, it might get easier to find a deal.... but I cannot help but wonder if the best "dime on a dollar" deals are going to originate with those overextended owners that never spent a frickin' nickel on maintenance for the last decade, or two.... and that even in these times the really nice boats will be the very last to sell substantially under their normal value...

So, you might end up with a deal, but if the boat is really a good example, it will never be one of the cheaper ones out there.

One engine note, having a late model diesel installed should add about 7K to the value it might have otherwise.

Just some ruminations on a rainy morning.

Best,
Loren

sailor11767 · Feb 24, 2009

Gads, what have I done???! I just got an email from the broker, asking what's up? So I sat down, reiterated much of what I've been saying here, and told him to draft up a $5K offer. Conditioned on a survey, statement that the boat is free of liens, and a clear title.

I guess at $5K the most I can loose is $15K ($5K for the boat, $5K for a year's storage and such, and $5K to dispose of it).

I'll keep you all posted!

Harry

Brisdon · Feb 24, 2009

A salvage bid on that boat would be around 9K to 10K, and it's a lot easier to sell it to someone who is going to part it out than sail it, so I'm not thinking a 5K offer is going to fly, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. What region are you in?

sailor11767 · Feb 25, 2009

Well, the short answer (very short...) was $14K. No explanation, and frankly, it isn't even somewhat supported by the market. It's clearly what he wants for it, not what it will sell for. Sad, because it's not too far gone to save - YET.

Brisdon,

I'm in Annapolis on the Chesapeake. You guessed the answer, but your comment has me curious. I've often wondered, especially as I look at the occasional "worthless" project boat (never seriously in person, I am not that desperate!), what happens to those boats. Storage in most populated areas is a killer, even on land, and so a person who gets a free boat, and starts into a renovation (thereby making it even MORE of a project boat!) ends up with a boat worth less than zero and a monthly storage bill. How do you salvage a boat for more than a loss? I know the mast is worth scrap, the engine if it runs (this one was a very recent Yanmar) is worth some dough, and some hardware like winches (but these were not self tailer's, so I'm not sure who the target market is) can be sold, but then you end up with 6 tons or so of fiberglass and lead. How do you get rid of that for a reasonable price? I know it's done, but I've always wondered what happens to old fiberglass derelics, and how much that ends up costing. Any thoughts?

Harry
Still a Wannabe E35/II owner......

Brisdon · Feb 25, 2009

Well, the fiberglass goes to a land fill, the 5000 lbs of lead gets melted and goes back into circulation, and everything else gets parted out. They made about 500 E-35's, so there is a good market for all the bits and pieces. If it's worth restoring, keep at him with slightly higher offers until you meet somewhere in the middle. :egrin:

"rejection is gods protection" In the end, if he doesn't except the highest offer that you are comfortable with, then it's not meant to be. That's the way I see it. Nothing worse then fighting the universe to step into a mistake. But the season is a part of it. Owners don't usually cave in the middle of winter because the market picks up when the season kicks in. If he hasn't sold it by September or October, you have a really good chance.

sailor11767 · Feb 25, 2009

Thanks for the thoughts on salvaging. I'm not doing it, but it always seemed to me it was a very low-profit game with a lot of labor. I figured that explained all the relics that couldn't be given away. But it is good to know that there is a way to get rid of truly "dead" boats. Thanks again,

Harry

chaco · Feb 27, 2009

The SoCal Boogie

Here in SoCal the Boats are bought by the Brokerage to FLIP the SLIP for wealthy PowerBoaters. The Old Ericsons and Islanders are Salvaged to Long Beach or Costa Mesa for Parting Out or just Move to available Slips in Undesireable Harbors.....like Chula Vista
As you have time and money you can rebuild the Classic's back to their Original Glory. The real Show Stopper is usually the Engine.
Wait till you find that DreamBoat that is Less Project and more Fun Sailing.

gareth harris · Mar 8, 2009

I will start with your initial questions:

In the absence of major collision / hurricane damage, the hull / deck join will not leak, as it is glassed on the inside. Most likely the leakage from the portlights is running down the headliner and appearing at the edge, as there is a void between the exterior and headliner for the leakage to enter. There is no core there, unlike Loren's set up.

There is also no danger of that leakage entering the deck core, as they are glassed separately. However, judging by your description, it is quite possible that every piece of deck hardware has been leaking into the core for a long time, so give the entire deck a very thorough tap test with the handle of a big screwdriver, listening for any area that does not ring properly, or any sound of cracking.

The main hatches can be replaced with Lewmars if you glass in new frames for them; it is a big job, but I have pictures if you ever attempt it.

Rotten wood on the bottom of the cockpit cubby holes is a very bad sign, as that wood is also the core of the deck in that section of boat, so you will most likely have delamination requiring, ultimately, a very large repair. Again, though, it is doable - fibreglass can generally be repaired with the time and effort.

The original holding tank was a 9 gallon tank under the forward bench seat of the dining area. A larger tank can be fit in there, the two usual sources are:

http://www.ronco-plastics.net/

http://www.kracor.com/pages/marineindustry.html

My overall feeling reading your description is that the boat has suffered long neglect, and will be a huge project. If you are someone who enjoys building things, and you are someone who wants to make your boat uniquely to your desires, you may be looking at the right boat; although the scale of the job will test your patience to the extreme.

E-35s come onto the market fairly frequently. You seem to have a good grasp of sizing up the value, which is just as well - as others have said above, many owners who do not lift a finger to look after their boats try to sell them with no concept of how much they have let their value disintegrate.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

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