32-200 Rigging wire size

Getting ready to replace the standing rigging on Aegir.

I "measured" the wire size and it looked like 1/4". Can anyone verify this size?

Also, does anyone have the linear feet of wire required?

Looks to me like I might save money by using no-swag style fittings and doing it myself. Since I havn't priced things out yet, I'm not sure. Since the no-wag fittings are more expensive.

The fore stay is 9/32", the back stay and uppers are 1/4", and the rest are 7/32" according to page 56 of the owner's manual on this site.

Check there for a starting point for lengths, end fittings, and size.

Tom, thanks for the info *and* the pointer that this site has the owner's manual.

A class that you might be interested in if going this route

Brion Toss and I will be giving a workshop on "Rigging Your Boat".

Although this might seem a little commercial since I am one of the presenters at the class, learning from the pros how to do the job before you start could save you a lot of time money, and worry. The class is in Alameda in February.

www.realworldcruising.com

Sorry if the slightly commercial nature of the post offends anyone.

Guy

Is there an owners manual available specifically for the 32-200? Or is the manual for the 32 the only thing available?

Light on the Wire

Verify your Rigging Wire sizes with your local Riggers. I replaced an UPPER recently and my Rigging Supplier indicated that the 74' Ericson Specs are light for heavy weather and OffShore Cruising. Moving up a wire size NOW will be negligible in Cost to Benefit. SF Bay is not a Weekend Sail to Catalina.
Ericsons were designed as stoutly built hulls and minimal cruising hardware for OnShore Sailing in SoCal. ANY Ericson can be upgraded to a fine OffShore Cruising Sailboat with the right hardware and rigging.

Another thing to be aware of is that older boats (and hence the manuals you're reading) are probably using/refering to 304 stainless, and 316 has become quite popular as a more corrosion resistant flavor used more often than not in today's rigging (from what I can tell - Guy, please correct me if I'm off here). Due to the alloy differences, you generally upsize by one when going from 304 to 316. Not all riggers seem to be on top of this. I stumbled into this the hard way when I did the rigging on Emerald

For some examples of what I mean on strength differences, check this from the Loos Company (http://loosco.com/):

304 Stainless Steel Wire Rope, 1x19

7/32" 6300 lbs
1/4" 8200 lbs

and the page you can find this and more sizes in 304:

http://loosco.stage.thomasnet.com/v...and-non-flexible-type-302-304-1792?&forward=1

316 Stainless Steel Wire Rope, 1x19

7/32" 5350 lbs
1/4" 6900 lbs

and the source page:

http://loosco.stage.thomasnet.com/v...ype-316-extra-corrosion-resistant-?&forward=1


Just one more potential gotcha

316 Upgrade

316 stainless sounds important. So, upsizing is likely in order.

Originally I thought about upgrading to E34 rigging sizes, but I did notice that the headstay and intermediates were the same on bothe boats: 9/32" and 7/32" respectively. I guess I can increase the intermediates' size to 1/4", but not sure how upgrading the headstay might affect the existing roller furler.

Also, is it worth replacing the Deck Tie-down?

Condition more than size

The rigging is not really undersized-as long as it is in good condition I would not worry too much. You are right about the headstay-depending on what model furler you have, it may not handle a bigger diameter HS. If I were bent on upsizing anything, I would do the uppers-but nothing which impacts pin sizes or chainplates..

Certainly the deck tie downs are more than ample-nothing to be gained there..

The only possible justification (IMHO) would be if you race and use hydraulics aggresively, but if I were doing that, I would go with Rod or Carbon Fibre rigging-rather than bigger wire...

As long as things are in good condition, there are other areas to spend $$ which will yield tangible benefits..

Cheers,
S, sailing:nerd:

Rig Size thoughts

Seth said:

The rigging is not really undersized-as long as it is in good condition I would not worry too much. You are right about the headstay-depending on what model furler you have, it may not handle a bigger diameter HS. If I were bent on upsizing anything, I would do the uppers-but nothing which impacts pin sizes or chainplates..

Click to expand...

On the part about head stays, I immediately thought of the comment from a retired sailmaker friend of mine: "Most boats with furling only get the head stay replaced when the owner dies or maybe if the boat is sold someday." This was in reply to my question about whether I should replace that wire when installing a new furler on an existing rig.

So, when we put the Harken on, we did replace the stay.

As to "correct" wire sizing, I also note that Brion Toss advises against generally increasing the diameter just because of an assumption that More is Better.
In his book he talks about actually calculating the load over the whole rigging system, looked at as a closed circle of forces, from spar to wires, to hull and back to base of spar.

Best,
Loren

Seth said:

The rigging is not really undersized-as long as it is in good condition I would not worry too much. You are right about the headstay-depending on what model furler you have, it may not handle a bigger diameter HS. If I were bent on upsizing anything, I would do the uppers-but nothing which impacts pin sizes or chainplates..

Click to expand...

Loren Beach said:

As to "correct" wire sizing, I also note that Brion Toss advises against generally increasing the diameter just because of an assumption that More is Better.
In his book he talks about actually calculating the load over the whole rigging system, looked at as a closed circle of forces, from spar to wires, to hull and back to base of spar.

Best,
Loren

Click to expand...

And this somewhat ties into the solution to the problem when I redid Emerald's rigging. In a nut shell, original 304 was replaced with 316 of the same size throughout by the rigger. The rated strength differences were pointed out to me by several 3rd parties resulting in lengthy discussions with the rigger and ultimately the very generous aid of Bruce King to guide me on what should be done to achieve the right remedy. In the end, the rigger redid the uppers, forestay, backstay, bob and whiskers on the bow sprit in upsized 316 wire rope, and we left the lowers, intermediate backstays and staysail stay at the original size in the 316. Basically the guidance from Bruce King was the masthead and bowsprit components did need the size increase for proper strength, but that it was OK to leave the lower items slightly down from where they started- plenty of margin already there for real life loads. If I had it to do from scratch, I'd go all the way up by one just because it would make me feel more warm and fuzzy, but in alll reality, I have probably landed at a pretty optimum mix of strength and weight, especially for the use of the Chesapeake Bay and perhaps some coastal trips. Hope that makes sense :nerd:

Almost Complete

Thanks for all the discussion and info.

I have replaced all the shrouds a pair at a time by removing, dropping at Svensens in Alameda, them duplicating, and me reinstalling.

As soon as I find u-toggle replacements for the aft lower shrouds to connect the chainplate deck fitting to the turnbuckle, I'll be ready to tune the mast and go for a test sail.

Apparently these u-toggles are not easy to find. The guys at Svensen's Rig Shop suggested that there was a discussion w/solution on this forum, but haven't located it yet.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=7436&referrerid=28

U-Toggle or Chain Plate, this might be the thread you seek.

Loren

Answer to Brian K's question?

"Is there an owners manual available specifically for the 32-200? Or is the manual for the 32 the only thing available?"

Brian: That question has popped up once or twice in previous posts but no sooner is it asked, than there seems to be radio silence about it. In all the looking I've done on this site and elsewhere, I've been unable to find any owner's manual specifically tailored to the 32-200 itself. This seems more than a little odd for a boat in the price range it was in during its production. If someone does have a definitive answer about whether a 32-200 owner's manual ever existed, please speak up. Sorry to divert the thread to a bit of a side issue.
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Thanks for the reply Mike. I think I'll give it one more try with a new post.

Toggle - Chainplate Rod to Turnbuckle Eye

Loren Beach said:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=7436&referrerid=28

U-Toggle or Chain Plate, this might be the thread you seek.

Loren

Click to expand...

That link does point to the problem from the chain plate viewpoint.

This link refers to the toggle itself: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=4939&highlight=u-toggle

I talked with Furling and Rigging guys and they have no parts. They even went to Minny's Yacht Salvage to look and no luck.

It looks like the chainplate fitting and the toggle were special made. My concern (beyond not being able to sail the boat without a toggle) is that if I need to replace the chainplate fitting, then I will need a completely different pair of chainplate fitting and matching toggle.

Ballengerspars.com suggested installing the new split end toggle having the 7/16" opening and then tightening the rigging and going sailing to reform the end around the chainplate fitting rod. As an alternatate, he suggested simply putting in a vice and reforming around a 1/2" rod.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Bent New Toggle

Since the new toggle fit the chainplate fitting when positioned parallel to the deck (over the chamfered top-bottom edges of the chainplate), I slid the toggle on and used a screwdriver to pry up from the bottom while my handy vicegrip turned the toggle upward in position.

Result is a slight bend in the toggle radius and a *better* fit of the chainplate bar into the toggle radius at the bottom. Still have *some* gap at the bottom of the toggle, but much less.

Reinstalled and tightened the lower shrouds (only the port side has a new toggle) and as soon as I do some preliminary rig tuning, I'm ready for a test sail.

Not 100% comfortable with that new toggle gap, but I'll keep a close watch.

Also, I wonder about the soundness and replacement candidates for the chainplates. I'll take another look at Loren's link: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...&referrerid=28

Update

Just thought I'd update this.

Couldn't find the utoggle or chainplate deck bolt anywhere, so I substituted a standard utoggle and Forced it to fit with a little bending.

Project done.

Now, if I can find the size of the mainsheet, I'm ready to replace that. Looks like 7/16" maybe, but I'd like to be sure.

Owner' Manual

"Is there an owners manual available specifically for the 32-200? Or is the manual for the 32 the only thing available?"

FWIW I have a 1988 E32-200 bought in 2007. The orniginal owner's manual, based on illustrations of plumbing, wiring and so forth is clearly meant to apply to a 32 not a 32-200.

Larry Lee
Savannah, GA
Annabel Lee E32-200