Wheel location -- aft or forward

The E35-II has the wheel way aft, behind a barrier. This gets the helmsman out of the way -- but isolated from the rest of the boat. It also makes access cumbersome.

Other boats, like the E39 (It t think) and the Pearson 35 put the wheel way forward -- right at the companionway. This gets the helmsman forward, in the way, and mixing it up with rest of the boat. It also makes access around the wheel easy. It looks like it makes access to the companionway awkward though.

Any thoughts or preferences on these two options? I'm starting to narrow down a boat purchase after many years of sailing on other peoples boats, and the E35-II is rather high on my list of candidates.

Thanks,

Harry
HarryK@Mochamail.Com

Hi Harry,

sailor11767 said:

The E35-II has the wheel way aft, behind a barrier. This gets the helmsman out of the way -- but isolated from the rest of the boat. It also makes access cumbersome.

Other boats, like the E39 (It t think) and the Pearson 35 put the wheel way forward -- right at the companionway. This gets the helmsman forward, in the way, and mixing it up with rest of the boat. It also makes access around the wheel easy. It looks like it makes access to the companionway awkward though.

Click to expand...

You've got the choice of boat family right

We have an E39-B with the aft wheel location. We're hardly experts since we just bought her a month ago, but I'll still offer some observations.

The helmsman can not handle the main sheet without leaving the helm. The foresail can be handled by the helmsman. This is the reverse of what I'm used to but other than not being able to spill the wind in the main from the helm I see no problem with it.

The helm position will not be very protected by the dodger (once we get one).

Neither I nor Nancy are very big (either dimension) but we have to really have to squeeze to get by the wheel ... or step over the winch islands.

We will figure out some way to raise the seat for the helmsman, probably by putting in one of those bulges you often see, just have to figure out how to keep it from restricting access to the lazarette.

The aft part of the cockpit is wonderfully uncluttered and so is the forward part, the only congestion is where you get by the wheel.

I love the aft wheel layout !



-Sven

Wheel Position

Harry,

I have a 35II and like Sven "love the aft wheel layout". Quite often I have people on board that are not thrilled about sailing so I will take them for a sight seeing motor cruise around the Los Angeles Harbor. The wheel position for this type of outing couldn't be better.
As for sailing--My Brother and I are both over 6feet and 200lbs and we have not experienced any difficulties getting around.
One last point--by being that far aft one is able to enjoy the incredible view of the most beautiful sailing vessel on water, the Ericson 35 II.

Instead of weighing the "lesser of two wheel evils" why not find a boat with a tiller?


These are well-designed boats that ( do not/should not ) need a complicated (and expensive) wheel system to cover up poor handling like quite a few boats we could name...

My .02 worth,
Loren

This discussion reminds me of one of my early sailing instructors talking about the fact that most aft cockpit sloops with wheel steering have the wheel at the extreme aft end of the cockpit. He said that steering these boats is like "driving a Ford F150... while standing on the rear bumper!". This has always bought a smile to my face, especially when trying to dock the boat, as the sensation can be exactly as he describes!

We have a 35 mkII with a wheel and really like the setup we have. The helm can access the genoa sheet winches AND the mainsheet and traveller from the aft "steering" cockpit. It's a great setup for short/single handing under sail or power.

One of the things I really like about the 39 is that cockpit. The forward
steering station allows the helmsman to sit protected under the dodger
facing forward. This really comes into play when cruising and on a rough passage. The flip side is this restricts access somewhat to the interior.
It's also one of the few cockpits that I think look good with a dodger.

<a href="http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/cruizin31/?action=view&current=cockpit.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/cruizin31/cockpit.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Martin King said:

One of the things I really like about the 39 is that cockpit....

Click to expand...

That cockpit <b>does</b> look very nice !

I assume when at the helm you sit on the side as if you were holding a tiller, except you are holding the wheel ?



BTW, want to do our varnish ? :xmas_grin



-Sven

Wow !

A "finely fitted yacht" from a craftsman, and beautifully photographed by him!

Double Wow.


Love the way the wheel guard gives the crew something to grab onto while entering or exiting the companionway, too. That's a solid improvement over our bridge deck traveler, which lets the mainsheet tackle provide a helpful hand hold as long as it's sheeted in tight.

Martin, I followed your link to your professional photo work URL. You have some very interesting high-end clients!
Lots of great examples of composition, light, and framing. Very high on the Coolness Scale. (And I just barely know how to use some of those words in a sentence!)
:nerd:

Regards,
Loren

I assume when at the helm you sit on the side as if you were holding a tiller, except you are holding the wheel

Click to expand...

Exactly right. I can't really describe the feeling of steering this boat
from this position except to say you are more "ensconced" than say
an aft steering boat where you are more "perched".
You know I have not looked at these pics of my old boat in a long time. Sure brings back memories...

I kind of miss the old girl...

Loren Beach said:

Instead of weighing the "lesser of two wheel evils" why not find a boat with a tiller?


These are well-designed boats that ( do not/should not ) need a complicated (and expensive) wheel system to cover up poor handling like quite a few boats we could name...

My .02 worth,
Loren

Click to expand...

I have the tiller system, and I like the set up. I have always preferred the feedback from a tiller to that from a wheel, plus it keeps the helmsman clear of the winches, but close enough to get to them if you need to.

There is reasonable visibility forward sitting on the outer deck with a good tiller extension, but I think if you put a wheel in the forward cockpit, where it would have to be right behind the companionway to be clear of the winches and mainsheet, you would have to stand up permanently to see anything of where the boat was going.

The aft cockpit wheel is not a bad set up, although it does add extra weight where you do not want it in the stern.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

There is reasonable visibility forward sitting on the outer deck with a good tiller extension, but I think if you put a wheel in the forward cockpit, where it would have to be right behind the companionway to be clear of the winches and mainsheet, you would have to stand up permanently to see anything of where the boat was going.

Click to expand...

A reasonable assumption, but simply not the case. The footwell in the
39 is "y" shaped, allowing the helmsman to sit facing forward on the seats.
My preference was to sit to leeward to observe the sails where visibility
was as good as any aft steered boat. Keep in mind the vast majority
of 39's were ordered with this set up, and this boat had a long production
run of nearly 8 years. In fact this layout is so comfortable, my father
used it when designing Unicorn, his custom 41' ketch seen here.
Wish I knew what happened to the original wood wheel, it was a
beauty. Probably decorating someone's house somewhere.

<a href="http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/cruizin31/?action=view&current=unicorncockpit.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/cruizin31/unicorncockpit.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I've always liked the aft steering station but the pic of Martin's 39 makes me think there are a lot of good reasons for having it forward. What a beautiful boat.

My current yacht has a tiller. One of these days I'll launch her and see how it works...

Martin...I took a quick peek at your website. Do you happen to know David and Ann Hewitt?

A "finely fitted yacht" from a craftsman, and beautifully photographed by him!

Click to expand...

Loren thanks for the kind words.

Do you happen to know David and Ann Hewitt?

Click to expand...

Hi Lew,
No, I do not. What are you sailing these days?

Compromise

Like most things on our boats the location would seem to be a compromise between living aboard and sailing efficiency. I love having the wheel aft for spending time aboard while at anchor - well out of the way. And it wasn't really a problem for the majority of the time that my wife and I sailed the boat together. But the one season I singlehanded the boat I came to hate the location of the wheel. I couldn't get to any of the sail controls from back there, and wound up depending on the autopilot to steer whenever I had to do anything forward at all - even just a quick adjustment of the sheet.

gareth harris said:

I have the tiller system, and I like the set up. I have always preferred the feedback from a tiller to that from a wheel, plus it keeps the helmsman clear of the winches, but close enough to get to them if you need to.

There is reasonable visibility forward sitting on the outer deck with a good tiller extension, but I think if you put a wheel in the forward cockpit, where it would have to be right behind the companionway to be clear of the winches and mainsheet, you would have to stand up permanently to see anything of where the boat was going.

The aft cockpit wheel is not a bad set up, although it does add extra weight where you do not want it in the stern.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

Click to expand...

I'm a tiller feller myself on my 32--and hadn't realized that 35's even came with the option. Gareth, what kind of extension do you have, and do you have a tillerpilot with which you're satisfied? I have neither but would like to add both.

My complaint with the tiller is that the legs of people sitting behind the helmsman become resentful obstacles during larger maneuvers, and the ranks of dual amputees willing to be crewmembers or family members are rather thin.

The tiller extension came with the boat when I bought her, I do not know whether it was original. I can measure it when I am next at the boat in a month or two if you like.

As for tiller pilot, one came with the boat, added by a previous owner, one of the lower end Raytheon models. It was rated for a boat smaller than the E35, the previous owner told me it worked well, but he also told me a lot of other things about the boat that turned out to be a bit inaccurate. I never used it, primarily because I was too busy with boat overhauls to figure it out, also because I rarely had any real nead of it, so I sold it.

I will install a below decks autopilot before I make any ocean trips after my rebuild, but that is still one for the future.

As for the tiller getting in the way, I guess it is pros and cons. I tend to sit the guests who do not play an active part in the sailing in the aft cockpit, where they are out of the way of everything.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

Martin King said:

A reasonable assumption, but simply not the case. The footwell in the
39 is "y" shaped, allowing the helmsman to sit facing forward on the seats.

Click to expand...

Is that also true on the E35? From the picture it looks as though the E39 has a cabin that is not as high above the cockpit seat as the E35, allowing somewhat better view.

BTW, whenever you show pictures of your work, I can not help but look at my work as rather amateur by comparison.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

From the picture it looks as though the E39 has a cabin that is not as high above the cockpit seat as the E35, allowing somewhat better view.

Click to expand...

The 39 was flush decked with higher freeboard than a comparable
boat with a dog house. One of the benefits of this is a nearly
unobstructed view from the helm. If you look carefully in my picture,
you will see a notch along the top of the cockpit seat. This was for
a removable seat allowing the helmsman to sit on centerline and
was useful when motorsailing.

Marty's boat(s).

Gareth and all, OK I can't remain silent any longer. You might rightly think his E39 was/is lovely but you really need to see what he's done with his E31 hull #22. She's a little jewel perfect in every way. It's been a few weeks since we've spoken but I'd wager that while he recently had the Yanmar 3GM30F out for a rebuild, I'll bet he restored the engine pan and adjoining areas. Mind you probably not just with Bilge Coat gray enamel, my money's on his fairing the entire area and then gel coating it. Let's all see what his answer is. In any event, I'm sure that any of us visiting when the engine was out, could have eaten a meal on that engine pan. C'mon Marty, fess up, what did you do in there? We want photos and we want them now!! Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

Mike.Gritten said:

This discussion reminds me of one of my early sailing instructors talking about the fact that most aft cockpit sloops with wheel steering have the wheel at the extreme aft end of the cockpit. He said that steering these boats is like "driving a Ford F150... while standing on the rear bumper!". This has always bought a smile to my face, especially when trying to dock the boat, as the sensation can be exactly as he describes!

We have a 35 mkII with a wheel and really like the setup we have. The helm can access the genoa sheet winches AND the mainsheet and traveller from the aft "steering" cockpit. It's a great setup for short/single handing under sail or power.

Click to expand...

Sounds like your old sailing instructor was a compact car fan.

Among the many reasons I chose the E35II was exactly BECAUSE of the wheel placement and T-cockpit. That provides a good view over the cabin, a nice perspective on the jib trim, while keeping crew and guests forward where I can keep on eye on 'em.

Also, the E35II was originally designed for racing, where the helmsman sat forward, tiller in hand, and 'afterguard' - aft. Anyone preferring that arrangement can simply remove the wheel, attach the emergency tiller and tuck themselves beneath their new dodger, hugging the aft cabin bulkhead. (The aft placement of engine controls makes motoring a challenge however.)

All that said, I had the pleasure of driving an E39 at a Northwest Rendevouz a couple years ago. After about 10 minutes, I became accustomed to the forward helm placement, though I got a bit of crinkle in my neck from turning to speak with our esteemed moderator, Sean, who was smiling along with the rest of the happy Vikings on that terrific yacht.

So, whatever floats your boat - forward, aft wheel or tiller - these are great boats no matter how ya steer 'em.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"