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How bad is it? (Part 1: Shaft Coupling)

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
...and don't start with the Johnny Carson routine, "It's so bad..."
:)

I have some issues to deal with: Shaft coupling, boom corrosion and stuffing box. I'm going to post these in three different threads so there aren't too many pictures in one thread.

The boat is coming out for bottom painting shortly and I'm going to have the yard look at these things as well, but I would like to get an opinion from anyone who has dealt any of these as to what kind of cost I may be looking at. I don't have the time or the tools to do this myself. First the shaft coupling:
 

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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Yikes

Looks worse than the coupler they removed by brute force and threw away after we bought our boat in '94.
From all the corrosion I would guess that a regular amount of sea water has been flying around from the area of the stuffing box. :esad:

When ours was replaced I also had PSS shaft seal system installed. No water around there since, so we are fans of the product.

One thing you might want to do before heading over to the $75./hour guys at the yard is to really wire brush off the rust and scrub and vacuum up all the dirt and rust flakes. Then put some good "liquid wrench" product on those old bolts and the shaft. Lots of sailors here seem to like "PB Blaster" but I have never tried it. I do know that this stuff needs some time to seep into the metal interface and do its work.

Like our boat when we bought it, yours has a lot of rust on the bracket that holds the throttle and shift cable. Give that metal bracket a good clean up, as well.

Best wishes,

Loren
 
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Cory B

Sustaining Member
If all else fails a sawz-all will make short work of that coupling, thats what we had to do shortly after buying our present boat.

Afterwords we cleaned up the shifter mounting bracket and everything else back there with a wire brush and repainted, installed new control cables, put in a new shaft, and installed a PSS - I didn't ever want to have to deal with this again.
 

Jarod

Member III
I just went through this same ordeal on my E27. I paid the guys in the yard one day labor to give it a try and it was a total loss (it took me 3 evenings after work but got it off myself). My advice is do all the work yourself. If you can get a sawzall at the coupling then cut a triangle inside the circumference of the coupling bolts. You want to cut almost to the mating surface of the coupling and the output flange and then finish the last bit off by hand so you don't score the output flange to deeply. My coupling looked pretty much like yours and I ended up having to cut the shaft to get it out as the coupling was still seized to the shaft after i cut the center of it out. If you do the work yourself then you will still be ahead of the game even after purchasing a new coupling, dripless shaft seal and shaft, plus you will have the security of knowing you have all new components. If you have the sawzall great if not get one and purchase at least 10 of the metal cutting blades (go for the short blades as I am sure your access is probably limited as mine was very tight). Once you have cut out that center piece (hub) on the coupling you will just have a bit of metal hanging on each remaining bolt and a pipe wrench will twist them out without too much trouble.


*** As always this advice is worth what you paid for it...but believe me this job is very fresh in my mind and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I had to.

jarod.
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
In an effort to minimize the amount of yard labor time I'm thinking of doing this:

Knocking as much rust as possible off of the coupler through the careful use of a cold chisel and wire brush.

Treating the rust that remains with Naval Jelly.

Finally treating with Kroil or PB Blaster, being careful of the output shaft seal.

Any thoughts?
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Rust and scale removal.

A 50/50 bath of a mix of muriatic acid and water will do wonders. You might be able to make a catchment vessel from the bottom of a 2 liter soda bottle placed under the coupling. Be careful not to directly breath the vapors, they're nasty. It's amazing what that stuff will do for rust like that and worse. Flush with fresh water and in combination with a wire brushing and small hammer, it'll look like new in short order. You can get the acid at any pool supply or big box store. I keep it at home for just such purposes, as a matter of fact it works magically on funky old bronze hardware that I buy for the boat, returning it to its virgin state in mere seconds. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
Muratic acid is kind of nasty. I used it recently to flush out my head plumbing and holding tank. (Actually, I think those directions may have been from one of your old posts.)

The Naval Jelly is phosphoric acid, and I like the fact that it is a gel medium which will stick to the coupling for several minutes while it works. I do have some muratic acid left over and may try a little of that on the stuffing box and the exposed part of the shaft.
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
Be careful with the muriatic acid as it will eventually eat through plastic, porcelain and many other substances. And run a fan if you do use it in such an enclosed space. Personally I would start with the less dangerous solutions first.

Besides, cleaning up all that rust will do nothing to help you seperate the coupling from the shaft and who cares if you break the bolts. They are readily available. You will need a few different sizes anyway to push the shaft through the coupler.
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
I agree with Jarod. Cut it off yourself, and allocate the money you might have spent on yard services to buy yourself a new shaft, seal, and coupling.

Three or four judicious cuts through the coupling with a Sawzall perpendicular to the shaft, or by cutting the heads of the bolts off with a Dremel tool (or grinder if there's room), will have the shaft off the engine. A nick or two on the engine coupling will not be disastrous. Remove the prop and pull the shaft out through the cabin. Take it home and maybe you'll be able to squeeze the shaft out of the remnant of the coupling, thereby saving the shaft. It might not be worth trying.

Any machine shop will be readily able to bore and broach a new coupling to the old shaft or to a new one.
 

Greg Ross

Not the newest member
If it ain't broke....

Granted that shaft flange looks pretty rough, but it really doesn't look any worse then the output flange on the transmission.
Rust bloom can really be quite deceiving, I would recommend whatever clean-up method you're comfortable with to descale and then a close inspection, if the bolts are wasted, replace them. A good rust inhibitor/ primer and a coat of paint would do wonders.
Is there any vibration or suspicion of misalignment, if not then paint it and deal with the source of the water. Replace the packing in the gland, adjust to a slo drip once you're back afloat, retire to the "Fiesta Deck" and think about all the work and money you just saved!
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
I can appreciate the "if it ain't broke" approach, but think I may just be postponing the inevitable.

There is no vibration and my bottom diver says there doesn't appear to be excessive play in the cutless bearing.

I think I'm going to clean it up as best I can first to get a better look at it.

One of the things I'm most concerned about is the integrity of the hose connecting the packing gland/stuffing box to the shaft log. The only way to replace that is to pull the shaft...
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I do understand the approach that you might not want to initiate a potentially expensive repair/upgrade to the hose on the old stuffing box. Given the age of all the hoses on the boat, this one being subject only to cool sea water should last a lot longer than the ones carrying hot engine coolant, and maybe a bit longer that the wire-reinforced ones that may have been used for original bilge and cockpit drains...
But still, if it cracks from old age and starts seeping, and you are trying to enjoy your sailing vacation, that's not the best time to consider the downside of deferred preventative maintenance.

Better to do this sooner at an off-season haulout when the travelift and blocking costs are already scheduled into your budget.
The '88 vintage hose on our original stuffing box looked OK when we replaced it and the stock box with a PSS shaft seal in '95, but we had to have a new coupler since the shaft was slipping out of the original one and the shaft had to be pulled anyway. "In for a penny, in for a pound" as they say.

Whatever you do, keep the water out and your family safe and dry.

Regards,
Loren
 
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