• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

life span of a fiberglass hull?

ChrisS

Member III
Isn't it funny the conversations you hear take place at the docks?

Last weekend I was walking down the dock with my sliding hatch that I had just had rebuilt, and a guy I don't know too well about eight or ten boats away from mine--a late 80s Irwin, I think--enaged me in conversation. He asked which boat was mine, its age, and how many other projects I had lined up for the off season. He then said something like, "I can't ever figure out you guys with the old boats. You sink all this time and money into them, and they are just about at the end of their life spans."

I pointed out that my boat surveyed well, and that I try to take care of it because not only do I like sailing it, but that it's pretty, and well designed to boot. I also said that boats are a terrible financial investment, but I don't expect to get a monetary return out of mine.

He said that none of the upkeep I do mattered, since fiberglass has a finite life span, and that at some point in the not too distant future, hulls were going to be losing their keels all over the Bay. I laughed a bit, and said that while that things age, a failing hull would most likely show the things surveyors look for: stress cracks, a rig that won't hold tension, excessive blistering, etc. His reply was that fiberglass is a relatively new material and that time will tell, but he insisted the best thing to do is to trade up every so often to a newer boat so as not to be stuck with one that is about to come apart.

Since then I have been searching around the web and reading about the life span of fiberglass boats, but there seems to be--surprise--a variety of opinions.

While I know that hulls have opened up in big seas, and from hitting things, has anyone ever heard of a fiberglass hull, one that has been sailed in conditions that the designer intended, and hauled and inspected and maintained on a regular basis, crapping out due to old age? I have to walk past this guy's boat to get to mine, and I'm sure this discussion will be an ongoing one.
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
He is full of it. Most fiberglass boats that were laid up 30 or 40 years ago are just as strong now and may even be stronger as the resins have cured over time. Keels don't fall off because FG fails. They fall off because keels stubs on some boats were laid up with plywood core and water has gotten in and rotted it out. Or keel bolts have degraded to the point of failure. To his point, fg is not water resisitant and water can get in and rot the material but it takes a long time and will usually only happen in certain areas and not enough to ruin a hull(osmotic blistering).

The 1955 Rhodes 18 I restored a few years ago was a tank and showed absolutely no signs is weakening after 53 years. It even sat outside in the Maine weather for a few years with water in it. Go talk to the guys at the local boatyards. Better yet, talk to some surveyors.

Ask him what he bases his "theory" on.
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
The life expectancy of a glass hull.

Chris and all, More years ago than I care to or can remember, I read short piece in Practical Sailor on that very subject. They were comparing the usable life of a wooden boat to a glass one and as your dock mate observed, gave credit to the comparison by realizing that historically, glass hulls hadn't been around all that long. Anyway, they used some formula (maybe darts) and estimated that a wooden boat had a working life of 40 years. Hey, if you don't agree that's OK just remember it was their estimate, I'm just the messenger. They went on to say that their best guess as to the working life of a glass boat is close to 10,000 years. Take that for what it's worth. I just tried a Practical Sailor Magazine and Google search for the article, no dice so you'll have to trust me on this one. Regards, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

Bob in Va

Member III
Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up...

The first Chevrolet Corvettes were '53/'54 models and the body of a well-kept one looks today about the same as it did 40 years ago. Perhaps as you walk past that guy on the way to your boat you should just say, each time, "Well I'll be, she's still floating!"
 

CaptDan

Member III
so you'll have to trust me on this one.
Regards, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

And trust you I will, Glyn.

The late great Ernest Gann once wrote that 'dock admirals' are to be found at virtually every marina and port in the world. They're the ones who'll always give unrequested advice about anything nautically related, while they, themselves, have hardly set foot far off land.

I'd say Chris' marina neighbor falls squarely in that catagory; though I can't vouch for his seafaring skills, his 'ass'umptions about fiberglass are nowhere near the mark. "Keels falling off all over the Bay?" Yeah right. Excuse me, Mr 80s Irwin Owner, but if I were you, I'd be more concerned about delamination in that tub YOU'RE allegedly sailing, sir.

Sorry - he left himself open for that one; the guy's arrogance is exceeded only by his ignorance. On any given day, some of the oldest and most robust plastic classics - Columbias, Albergs, Tritons and yes - even our humble Ericsons - can be seen playing the waters of the Golden Gate. Maybe, at one point in their lives, they've suffered dismastings, shredded sails, broken rigging and rudders, but their hulls - some nearing the 1/2 century mark - are still going strong.

Hey Chris - unless your marina contract demands you pay attention to idiots - you might consider either ignoring that guy, or kindly suggesting that he go sailing and keeping his dumb ideas to himself.:egrin:

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 
Last edited:

ChrisS

Member III
I think this guy looks at boat ownership in a way that some people view owning cars--that it's best to "trade in" for a newer model every so often to avoid some sort of catastophic failure or large expense. How does he get to know his boat? I can't imagine buying a boat knowing that I'd only have it for a handful of years, dumping it to avoid making a repair. And the idea that a newer boat is a better one, regradless of design and manufacturer, is laughable. Dan, as you say, one of the neatest thing about going sailing is seeing all those classic fiberglass boats out there going strong, knowing all they've been through.

This morning I went down to my boat to air it out and tinker a bit, but my neighbor wasn't there. For the record, I've never seen his boat anywhere but the slip, nor have I seen the slip empty.
 

Skip Jim

Member II
Doesn't your dock buddy also own a fiberglass boat? Late 80's. Is he expecting it to fall apart soon?

Interesting ....

Jim
 

CaptDan

Member III
I think this guy looks at boat ownership in a way that some people view owning cars--that it's best to "trade in" for a newer model every so often to avoid some sort of catastophic failure or large expense. How does he get to know his boat? I can't imagine buying a boat knowing that I'd only have it for a handful of years, dumping it to avoid making a repair. And the idea that a newer boat is a better one, regradless of design and manufacturer, is laughable. Dan, as you say, one of the neatest thing about going sailing is seeing all those classic fiberglass boats out there going strong, knowing all they've been through.

This morning I went down to my boat to air it out and tinker a bit, but my neighbor wasn't there. For the record, I've never seen his boat anywhere but the slip, nor have I seen the slip empty.

Why am I not surprised?:)

The idea of trading in a boat to avoid expenses is akin to over drawing your bank account to keep it 'clean.' That thinking may benefit boat dealers and brokers, but the economic deficit likely more than compensates for any perceived gain to the owners.

It's one thing to move up or down in boat size for any number of reasons, but the notion of deliberately losing - say - $15,000 in depreciation - can hardly be called fiscally astute. All things being equal, even a blown engine would cost less to replace than merely changing boats to be on the 'safe side.'

In any event, I'm preaching to the choir. As Richard Spindler of 'Latitude 38' has often said, the 'best boat is the one you're having fun on right now.' :egrin:

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
His reply was that fiberglass is a relatively new material and that time will tell, but he insisted the best thing to do is to trade up every so often to a newer boat so as not to be stuck with one that is about to come apart.

Well your dockmate must be doing better than the rest of us poor
stiffs. Who can afford to "trade up" to a new boat every few years?
Yeah right, I'll take that new Hinckley 40 daysailer cause my Ericson
might self destruct right before my eyes, let me get my wallet. What
BS.

I had a conversation with my dad about this question of fiberglass
longevity. Best thing you can do is proper maintenance, ie. a properly
dried out laminate prior to barrier coating. The demise of a fiberglass
hull will come about from wet wood cores in hull and deck long before
the resins break down.

Martin
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Jeez, you all missed it. The fiberglass "expert" was on an Irwin...... That alone makes most anything he says suspect. :p RT
 

Dave Hussey

Member III
Would a question be inappropriate?

There seems to be a lot of discussion about blisters in FRP laminate, and I wonder how destructive that actually is? My understanding is that it is superficial, and only affects a layer under the gel coat...hardly structual...more of a cosmetic blemish to a cruiser. To a racer, well, thats another story, of course. Am I wrong in my understanding of the significance? Once, in another dimmension, I owned a motorboat that had delamination in the bilge due I believe to gasoline and oil exposure...it did soften the fiberglass reinforced plastic several laminations deep, but when struck by a hammer sounded solid. I am not an engineer, but I didnt feel like it was going to the bottom anytime soon. :rolleyes: please advise.
 

Bob Robertson

Member III
Hi Chris,
I had a couple of thoughts. First, I'm wondering if all of the good work you're doing might not be making the Irwin owner feel somewhat inadequate. If that's the case I think it would make sense to work harder on your boat and to try to schedule your work time to coincide with when he and his wife are around.
The other possibility, and I think this is more likely, is that he may have stopped taking his antipsychotic meds. It might make sense to ask him, in a sensitive concerned way, that you had heard that he was on antipsychotics and that he shouldn’t be embarrassed, but you just wanted to be sure he had taken his meds this morning.

Enjoy,
Bob
 
Last edited:

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
http://www.acmanet.org/CM/1006/feature_b1006.cfm

Here is a nice article on this subject.

Note that when talking about life span of the materials, this is a different discussion from the design, engineering and QC that the original builder put into the hull and deck.

Where, IMHO, we benefit compared to owners of old Irwins, Bayliner Buccaneers, Hunters, and Catalinas (and etc etc...) is that we start out with stronger construction and better use/application/engineering of the glass, resin, and coring. And, yes, a solid layup hull is "cored"; that is, the center layers of roving that separate the skins do act as the web in the proverbial I-beam to stiffen the section. Ericson, bless their little engineering hearts, chose to go with internal ribbing, in the form of the TAFG, to stiffen the majority of their hulls. Nothing wrong with balsa coring, BTW, except that constant care/checking is needed to keep water out of the core material.
:nerd:
There are some historic trends in FRP construction that benefit us also, like having boats mostly from the "middle period of modern production" that use roving for strength rather than all-chopper-gun layup like the early small runabouts and some early sailboats.

Interesting topic, and lots of insight available with a little searching.

Cheers,
Loren
 
Last edited:

Randy Rutledge

Sustaining Member
Glynn

You have me worried
I will only be 10,030 years old whem my hull fails. Guess i better start looking for a replacement.
 

Bob Robertson

Member III
Ok, I was trying to be extremely funny with my comments. It has been pointed out to me that a couple of my friends and I occasionally present a sense of humor that is a bit warped. Sorry.

Bob

Hi Chris,
I had a couple of thoughts. First, I'm wondering if all of the good work you're doing might not be making the Irwin owner feel somewhat inadequate. If that's the case I think it would make sense to work harder on your boat and to try to schedule your work time to coincide with when he and his wife are around.
The other possibility, and I think this is more likely, is that he may have stopped taking his antipsychotic meds. It might make sense to ask him, in a sensitive concerned way, that you had heard that he was on antipsychotics and that he shouldn’t be embarrassed, but you just wanted to be sure he had taken his meds this morning.

Enjoy,
Bob
 

Emerald

Moderator
I also laughed, but I happily admit I enjoy a nice twisted sense of humor - keeps me sane.

I couldn't help but think this guy's on an Irwin, obviously he suffers from helmet envy :egrin:
 
Top