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Mechanical Fuel Pump Universal 5432 Concerns/Questions:

Dan W

Member I
Experienced a fuel problem this past weekend --- engine stalled shortly after powering off the mooring. Looking at the primary filter (RACOR glass bowl type) it appeared air was entering the system - I traced back to the fuel tank where I found the dip tube had cracked right at the fitting. Replaced and everything seems ok for now... my questions:

- Right at my primary filter there is a shut off valve. I had inadvertently left this closed when I started the engine. I then noticed the fuel level in the bowl going down, and first I assumed I still had an air leak, then I noticed the valve closed, simply opened it and the filter filled (pump must have pulled a vacuum), engine ran fine after that. Can this in any way damage the mechanical fuel pump? I don't think it ever ran dry, but it was pulling against a closed valve...??

- Is there any way to bleed this engine without someone holding down the start key in the cockpit? Seems to always be a two person job? I hear some mechanical pumps have a manual handle?

- I'm assuming pump is original - 20+ years - how difficult a job to rebuild/replace?

Any advice tips would be appreciated...

Dan

-
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Are you sure you have a mechanical fuel pump and not a facet electric pump? What year E-38? On mine there is an electric pump which comes on when the key is on. To bleed there is a knob I open on the injector pump area of the motor. Its about 1/2" in diameter. My 5432 does not have a mechanical lift pump. To bleed I turn the key on, open the knob and listen to the pump. Once it is not pulling air I close it and the pump slows to a tick tick tick. Start engine then open knob once more a a little bit just to be sure its all bled.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Do a search with the word "facet" and get 11 threads...
Lots of good commentary in those, and some is bound to be related to this question, IMHO.

Loren
 

Dan W

Member I
Thanks for the responses --

My engine does not have an electric fuel pump --- I've traced the fuel system from the tank to the injectors - one mechanical pump (starboard side on the engine) after the primary Racor, before the secondary spin-on filter... Nothing but copper tubing back to the tank.

This is consistant with the owners manual which outlines the bleeding process as I described -- you have to crank the engine.

I ran downstairs and took another look at the manual. There is an index sheet which outlines the specs for 8 Universal diesels -- seems all had electric fuel pumps except for the 5432 and 5411, those 2 had mechanical ???.

I do wonder if installing an electric pump would be better? I helped my boatyard neighbor bleed his system once and the electric pump made life alot easier. However I have read that mechanical pumps are far more reliable??

Any experience with mechanical pumps would be appreciated. Curious about a rebuild/replacement or if I could have damaged mine by pulling against a closed valve:esad:

Thanks,

Dan W
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I have an E38 with a 5432 and a mechanical fuel pump. It works so I have no idea if there would be a reason to "upgrade" to an electric. Having owned terrestrial diesels with mechanical and electrical pumps the mechanical have proved more reliable. Yes, an electric pump can make bleeding much easier and an electric pump could be installed inline for just such a purpose provided it can flow fuel when shut off. That way you have the best of both worlds. Electric for priming and backup and mechanical for normal use. IMHO it is highly unlikely you did any damage to the mechanical pump by closing the supply line when it was running. I hate to admit it but I have never changed the fuel filter. The bowl is clean and clear as is the element so why mess with it? RT
 

Emerald

Moderator
Most mechanical fuel pumps I've seen have been a diaphragm type pump. Assuming yours is such, I would say it's very unlikly that you did any damage. It should not require fuel for lubrication and the diaphragm shouldn't care that it was pumping nothing - moving against air should have less load than against fuel - think about how a hand pump gets harder to pump once it's primed.
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Second starter switch

This topic came up in a marine diesel mechanics course I took, and the recommendation of the instructor was to install a remote starter switch inside the engine compartment. Sounds reasonable, though I wouldn't know how to go about it.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
This topic came up in a marine diesel mechanics course I took, and the recommendation of the instructor was to install a remote starter switch inside the engine compartment. Sounds reasonable, though I wouldn't know how to go about it.

A remote starter switch is very simple. You just run power to the small positive stud on the solenoid with a momentary switch in between. Now you can use the starter to spin the engine at will. Handy when adjusting valves to "bump" the engine over with quick taps on the switch. I actually have a mechanics version which is simply a thumbswitch with two leads and alligator clips on the ends. Works great. RT
 

Dan W

Member I
Wow! Thanks for all the responses...

Just a quick follow up in reviewing the thread:

A question was asked regarding what year 38? --- the hull number indicates '85, however all of the literature that came with the boat indicates '86 (close enough, I just assume she was built in '85 as an '86 model??). The engine is stamped as a 5432.

The suggestion to search on "facet" yielded allot of good information. Seems I'm not the only one who has to push the start button remotely to bleed the engine. I'm thinking my mechanical pump is fine, however I might just pursue a rebuild of the pump over the winter --- we'll see. On one hand it is working so why mess with it, on the hand it is 22 yrs old, so I don't want to push my luck.

I will need to trace out the starter wiring to determine if there is a solenoid involved --- I think the starter is a "direct" wired deal. On a couple of occasions where I ran a battery very low while sailing I got absolutely no response when pushing the starter button (however the buzzers and oil light went off when the key was turned), so I'm thinking there might be a solenoid in line somewhere that won't pick up on low voltage....??

I'll do some more research on the remote starter and solenoid as a possible winter project. For now I just want to enjoy the boat.....:egrin:

Thanks again everyone....
 

missalot

Member II
I replaced the original Atom-4 with a Universal M-30 (5424 I believe) in 1995 and it has been running great ever since. I do NOT have an electric or manual pump between the tank and the injector pump.

Here is my system: Tank - hose to filter - hose to outboard squeeze bulb (for priming) - hose to injection pump. Also, my fuel tank is below the floor boards making the pickup LOWER than the injection pump.

I prime it by cracking the bleeding bolt, hand squeezing the bulb - no cranking, no noise, no moving parts! (no pump to fail or replace)

Simple and has been in place for 13 years.
 

Kerry Kukucha

Member II
Like Ted, our 5432 (boat is a 1988 model year; built in 1987) has an electric supply/lift pump - before seeing the engine, our mechanic had assumed we had a mechanical supply pump; my guess is that sometime around 1987 , Universal must have changed over to the electric style supply. When we were working through a bunch of fuel system issues last year, we ended up replacing the supply pump as it was leaking air - the telltale sign was frequent "ticking" vs what should be slow spaced "ticks".
 
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