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Bilge Pump Valve

Permenter59

Member II
Had a brain storm idea to clean the inside of the E29 in a new way that would avoid the fuss and time consumption of vacuuming etc. Remove throw rug and cushions and hose down the inside with soft scrub (bleach) and water. Purposely filled the bilge, then went to manually pump the bilge, which has worked perfectly since I have owned the boat…until now. Murphy picked the best time to tank my pump (sorry for the pun).:esad:
<O:p</O:p
Checked intake hose – not clogged.<O:p</O:p
Checked outflow hose outside of boat – felt air (while pumping).<O:p</O:p
Checked Diaphragm – not torn<O:p</O:p
Pulled intake hose off at the pump. Ran the pump and didn’t feel much suction. Reached in and could feel the valve. As I pumped, the valve didn’t seem to move much. <O:p</O:p
Pulled diaphragm off. Not torn, but couldn’t tell much as pump is in hard to see place. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Viewed several threads on this site, and have questions.

<O:p</O:pSuggestions on how to repair? Is this a kit, or just replace the valve? Way to tell if pump is original? Could it be the intake hose needs replacing? How do you know when it is time to get new pump?
<O:p</O:p
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Thanks,<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
 

Greg Ross

Not the newest member
Whale Gusher?

Appears you're talking about a "Whale" type manual pump?
Good function relies on just a couple of things;
Good suction-if in doubt, replace the suction hose with one continuous piece. Maintain the intake strainer to keep crud from getting to the pump valves.
-To test the suction hose, remove the strainer and fit a plug in the bottom end. Remove the line from the pump and fill it with water right back to the pump-if it holds water, it's fine and it must be a valve problem.
The pump is fitted with two valves, one inlet and one outlet and they both have to be seating properly. The pump is cast aluminum with a paint coating. I imagine even in a fresh water environment you can still have corrosion on the valve seat. Sediment can also wedge a valve open. You should remove the valves-two small screws, clean the flapper and the seat and apply a thin coat of wareproof grease to the seat.
If the pump diaphram is sound, that's it.
Like this perhaps?
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...L=true&storeNum=11&subdeptNum=75&classNum=168

Have a look in a Marine Catalog or two and match your model, best I can suggest.
 

Permenter59

Member II
Thanks Greg.
That is great information. It will help me eliminate the hose as a problem. (We did run water from the top of the hose down to the bilge to make sure hose wasn't blocked. But we didnt plug it. Will try that first.)

It did feel as though something was holding the inlet valve slightly open, but I couldn't determine that by feeling up in there (with the intake hose off).

"remove the valves-two small screws, clean the flapper and the seat and apply a thin coat of wareproof grease to the seat."

How do I remove the valves two small screws? I did remove the diaphragm, but couldnt see well below. The pump is buried beside a settie/locker in the stern. I can reach it and probably remove the entire thing (4 1/2" nuts I think.)

Do I remove the entire pump or is there a way to just get at the valve. I didn't notice a way to just dismount the valve.

Also, what is waterproof grease and where do I get it?

Thanks again
 

Greg Ross

Not the newest member
Sounds to me like you're going to have to definitely pull the pump. You need to be able to see what you're doing with the flappers and seats.
If you find corrosion on the valve seats sanding will be necessary and then it would be recommended to apply a swipe of grease. Winch grease or even vasaline would be fine as a waterproof coating-just a thin film though.
By the way, the strainer at the foot of the suction hose has a check valve built into it usually. Possible you could have some debris lodged in it. Take the screen off and have a look up in the neck, you should see a "sort of" four fingers profile that closes off to act as a foot valve/ check valve. You should be able to fill that line if that check valve is functioning properly. This feature basically keeps the pump primed.
The flappers could also have been wedged open with trash, if they sat that way for any extended period of time memory would keep them open. When you get the pump out, and get those flappers removed and reinstalled they just have to lay reasonably flat to the seat.
These type pumps are very simple and reliable as long as they don't have to injest too much debris. Depending on the model you've got you should have no problem with service parts-just be prepared for the price, a kit will include the diaphram, flappers and screws, etc. and will run at least $50.
 
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bbboat

Member II
Not to be a tree-hugger, but fish typically don't like bleach. It's toxic.

I've found a great cleaning solution is a mixture of white vinegar, lemon juice and a little water.

That said, my Whale pump was dismantled for a while during deck repainting. When I put it back together, I needed to pump out the bilge while the boat was still on the hard (no batteries on board). It took what seemed like FOREVER to get the thing primed and going (I too thought my pump had a leak or was broken in some way), but frustration and nothing better to do had me pumping until it finally started working.
 

Permenter59

Member II
Thanks Gregg and bbb<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Greg, I assume that<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

"the strainer at the foot of the suction hose has a check valve built into it usually"<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

is the part of the hose in the bilge. I pulled that hose up from the bilge and there was no strainer. Perhaps it fell off. I will check when I go back to the boat. (We are 3 hours away and average a trip every 10 days). We filled the hose with water (from the bilge end and from the pump end) reattached the hose and pumped and pumped and pumped. This could not have been a pretty sight for any observers on the dock. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

The flapper did feel wedged open slightly (intake side of the pump), but I felt around it and didn’t detect any debris.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

bbboat, thanks for the cleaning mixture idea. We don’t need to use soft scrub (which I think has bleach in it), just happened to have it. Also, I did pump on that thing for a while. At times it seemed to work for just a minute – my wife was watching the bilge hose and saw water leave at one point, but then it returned. As mentioned though, when I pulled the intake hose at the pump and put my hand next to the pump, it didn’t seem to be pulling much. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Thanks to both for the great info. I will print this stuff out, think through possible solutions and go armed to the boat. <O:p</O:p
 

Greg Ross

Not the newest member
Strainer/ Foot Valve

The foot valve is part of the strainer, picture an inverted "T" where the vertical leg is the part that the suction hose mates to. The valve is in that vertical leg.
Unless your bilge pump sits very low to the bilge level, ie; has virtually no lift then it must have a foot valve to perform properly. I'm pretty confident you're going to find your strainer in the bilge.
 

Permenter59

Member II
Thanks Greg

Do you think that is why it wasnt pumping the water? Getting the strainer out might be exciting...the bilge seems deep.
 
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I had a similar problem with my Whale Gusher pump on the trip home to Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario from Waukegan, Illinois, where I bought the boat last fall. The pump would prime ok, but would lose it's prime after a couple of strokes. We had that thing apart at least 7 or 8 times. It was always the same problem - a tiny piece of junk lodged in the outlet port -sometimes so small you couldn't see it easily. It would block it open so no suction was available. The strainer on the inlet was non-existent, so we knew what the fix was, but we were always pulling into port too late to get to a marine store or hardware store. We finally managed to reach Charlevoix, Michigan early enough that the service manager at the Irish Boat Shop could drive me to a nearby store to get some screen door screen, and we wrapped the pickup with that. It's worked perfectly every time since then (for about $3.00) :))
 

Permenter59

Member II
Thanks js

So the basic problem was just a screen to cover the intake? We are going to the boat tomorrow and I have been contemplating what to take to fix it. Sounds like I should just start with some screen. How did you attach it to the intake? Rubberband?
 
Hi Robert,
Basically I just wrapped the pickup with several wraps of the screen material, leaving enough past the end to fold back onto itself ,then folded the end over and put two stainless hose clamps over it. It's not too pretty :), but it works great!

Jeff
 

Greg Ross

Not the newest member
A couple of problems with this solution,

The link follows;
have a look.
Numero uno-No check valve-no anti-syphon device. ie; should your discharge fitting be below thew water or can be below the water while healed over, you can potentially sink the boat with reverse flow of water should you have the flappers in the Whale Pump stuck open!
And "duo" By screening the end of the hose the suction surface is an 1-1/2" in diameter vs the much larger intake surface on these "Whale" strainers. A bit of plastic or accumulation of grunge can put that pump out of commisssion, and most items like this I like to be able to rely on when I really need them.
I believe these pumps work better with the check/ foot valve as well. The liquid stays in the line and keeps the fluid at the pump/ primed.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...RL=true&storeNum=11&subdeptNum=70&classNum=71

For the sake of $23.00?????

Or;
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...RL=true&storeNum=11&subdeptNum=70&classNum=71

For $13.00 if the bilge sump it narrow.
 
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Excellent points

You make an excellent point Greg. I probably should have been clearer in my post. I didn't just wrap the hose, but the entire original strainer that was in the bilge, so the effective area of the strainer is still in use. I did find a small piece of what I assume was the original screen (a small piece of metal with holes in it) near the pickup. I'm going to put in a check valve as you suggest. It's a good idea. Thanks.
 

Permenter59

Member II
pump alive

Thanks for all who helped on this post. I got to the boat, dismantled the pump while underway, reassembled and pump my bloody arm off - all to the sound of water going overboard...sweet sound to me...sweet sound to my first mate...:egrin: Turned out to be fairly easy
 
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