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Voodoo stereo/speakers

Permenter59

Member II
Need some advise on Voodoo stereo/speaker/wiring.


Went to replace the fm/am marine cassette player in my E29 with a new out of the box JVC cd/mp3 fm/am. Thought it would be routine, have done this in cars going back decades ago to 8 track days.


Hooked up new unit and it “worked”, but after a increasing to a certain volume (a low volume) the speakers shut off. The unit didn’t shut off, just the speakers. The unit still was all lit up and the cd was still playing, but the speakers had no sound. Turned unit off, turned it back on and music happened again for a time, then sound shut off with the unit still powered and cd playing.
<O:p</O:p
Replaced old unit and speakers worked fine – regardless of volume.
Took the new unit home, opened the hood and hooked it up to my car battery, with old speakers. And it worked fine – really sounded good.
<O:p</O:p
Three more things. The new unit would keep playing as long as volume was really low, and seemed really hot to the touch. Also, the old system had the following quirk: when you turned on the accessory switch which powers the unit (and also powers the VHF, depth finder and the knot meter) sometimes the old unit and speakers wouldn’t power on. You had to turn the accessory switch back off and on again to kick in the stereo. After one time, the stereo/speakers came to live.
<O:p</O:p
Funny thing is I spend the day rebedding a stanchion, chain plates, Capt Tolleys on the toe rail, etc, etc getting ready for launch the next day. Saved this easy routine installation for the end of the day…
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
A hard to troubleshoot problem. But maybe

I think that you have a resistance in the speaker wire problem. Or that the speakers on the boat have bad voice coils. The old stereo probably handled that fine, but the new ones amp is being overloaded by the either too much resistance, or too little resistance.

Guy
:)
 

sleather

Sustaining Member
Need some advise on Voodoo stereo/speaker/wiring.

Took the new unit home, opened the hood and hooked it up to my car battery, with old speakers. And it worked fine – really sounded good. ............Saved this easy routine installation for the end of the day…

Check the "speaker specs" on the new stereo unit. It sounds like the new unit isn't capable of driving the existing speakers in the boat. There also should be a label on the speakers that give the ohmage(?) and compare that to the speakers you used at home, that worked. Make sure they're compatible, then go after the wiring(supply and speaker). I've had that problem in the past!

Electrical gremlins always take longer.:esad:
 

Cory B

Sustaining Member
I haven't played with speakers for a long time, but at least it used to be 8ohm resistance for your average home stereo system, but 4 ohms for your car system. They don't mix and match too well.
 

Permenter59

Member II
Thanks Guy sleather and Cory. It will be relatively easy to try new speakers. Will start there and then trouble shoot. [/COLOR]

Robert

Is rewiring a mater of just removing panel on E29 or worse?

Robert
 
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Maine Sail

Member III
How many..

How many speakers? What OHM or impedance are they? Are they wired in series? Do you have two four OHM speakers connected to say the front channel left and two to the front channel right? What was your input voltage at the time? What gauge wire is feeding this stereo?

With a little more info we may be able to help.

Please describe the wiring, speakers and speaker/configuration wiring as accurately as possible and hopefully this is something simple. It sounds like teh stereo is cutting of the amp due to thermal limits and it's being overloaded. Two four OHM speakers wired to one channel will give you a two OHM load that could certainly over load any car stereo..
 

Permenter59

Member II
Thanks <ST1:pMaine
</ST1:p<O:p</O:p
Not sure of the ohm of each speaker – will have to check when back at the boat.
<O:p</O:p
The speakers show the positive and negative hook up at the speaker (naturally), but only one wire exits by the unit (the positive I assume, but can’t be certain). To get the speakers to work, had to ground the negative speaker wires leading from the unit to each other.
<O:p</O:p
The unit is mounted on the ceiling of the starboard side near the companion way. One speaker to starboard, not to far from the unit, and the other speaker to port by the closet. My plan when I go back is to pull the starboard speaker out, run the speaker wires directly to the unit – pos. to pos. and neg. to neg. – to see if that helps.
<O:p</O:p
One more weird thing. The unit was making a noise over the speakers – about once a second. Hard to describe the noise. It wasn’t loud, but it was noticeable. Not a fuzzy sound or vibrating sound - more like a "thunk" if that makes any sense. Also, the unit dimmed the lights (12 volt lights) – just noticeably – when the speakers were working. When speakers shut off, lights increased. The unit allows you to adjust the amps (or volts, I cant remember which), which I did, but to no avail.
<O:p</O:p
Thanks for your help.
 

Permenter59

Member II
One more question. Is it difficult to run speaker wire to the port side? How would I do that? That is the direction I am leaning. Also thinking of running a pos and neg lines for the unit itself. Is that difficult? Haven't pulled off the main board switch yet:confused:

Thanks again. Will be out of town a few days and may not respond immediately.

Thanks again
 

Maine Sail

Member III
Thanks <st1>:pMaine</st1>
:p<o>:p</o>:p
Not sure of the ohm of each speaker – will have to check when back at the boat.
<o>:p</o>:p
The speakers show the positive and negative hook up at the speaker (naturally), but only one wire exits by the unit (the positive I assume, but can’t be certain). To get the speakers to work, had to ground the negative speaker wires leading from the unit to each other.
<o>:p</o>:p
The unit is mounted on the ceiling of the starboard side near the companion way. One speaker to starboard, not to far from the unit, and the other speaker to port by the closet. My plan when I go back is to pull the starboard speaker out, run the speaker wires directly to the unit – pos. to pos. and neg. to neg. – to see if that helps.
<o>:p</o>:p
One more weird thing. The unit was making a noise over the speakers – about once a second. Hard to describe the noise. It wasn’t loud, but it was noticeable. Not a fuzzy sound or vibrating sound - more like a "thunk" if that makes any sense. Also, the unit dimmed the lights (12 volt lights) – just noticeably – when the speakers were working. When speakers shut off, lights increased. The unit allows you to adjust the amps (or volts, I cant remember which), which I did, but to no avail.
<o>:p</o>:p
Thanks for your help.

It sounds like from the description you have created a very low impedance load by connecting grounds together or in a sense running the speakers in series.

You must wire the decks "Left Front Pos" & "Left Front Neg" wires to the left front speakers pos and neg terminals only and so on.

There should ONLY be ONE speaker per channel!!!!

Doing other wise and you are daisy chaining the speakers and overloading the amp by creating low impedance...

Make sure the speakers are wired correctly then try it and get back to us..
 
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Randy Rutledge

Sustaining Member
You should be able to run wires down behind the settee liners and on through the bilge. I believe you told me you do not have storage behind the seat back cushions so this will make threading the wire a bit harder. To run the DC you will have to come off the back of the DC panel which is accessible through the port lazarette. Wiring can be routed forward on port by way of the channel covering the hull joint by removing the wood paneling and then routed to starboard by the above mentioned path or behind the engine and below the quarter birth liner and the upward and forward.

Hope the weekend went well.
 

Permenter59

Member II
Thanks Randy and Maine.

I go to the boat again this weekend and plan to try the unit again. Will let you know how it goes. We have a five hour ride from winter birth to marina slip, so while 1st mate pilots, I will be down in the galley earning my keep. Hopefully will be enjoying some tunes sometime this weekend:).

Robert
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
All good advice here but there is something else you need to know: If you keep messing with wiring up a low impedance load, which is what it sounds like you are doing, you are going to KILL the output transistors in your new head unit. Thats abuse and they won't likely warranty it either. If you are not sure of the wiring then confirm that positive and negative leads exist and are continuous with a continuity tester. Or run new wires. RT
 

Permenter59

Member II
Thanks Rob.

confirm that positive and negative leads exist and are continuous with a continuity tester

That makes lots of sense. I suspected the problem was systemic. Two questions, when you say confirm positive and negative leads, I assume that these are from the battery? Also, what is a "continutiy tester"

Thanks

Robert
 
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cruis-n

Member II
Similar problem

I had a similar problem when I tried to install outside speakers several years ago. I mounted the left and right channel jacks using 1/4" phone plugs in a piece of aluminum angle. The "grounds" were connected because of the type jack used. Audio level was low and the stereo got very hot while running. When I split the aluminum mount into two individual mounts, the low audio and heat problems went away. I suspect you are seeing the same problem.

Many stereo systems have protection circuitry to protect the final amplifier transistors by shutting down when a problem is detected. Power cycling is resetting the protection circuit.

Since then I went to RCA phono jacks on the end of each duplex cable. Problem solved.

My $0.02.

Paul
 

Permenter59

Member II
Thanks Paul. I am leaving to go to the boat today, wont be back till Sat eve. The symptoms sound exactly the same as mine. I will trying rewiring and see if that helps. If not, I will contact you again...may need a pic of what you are describing as some of it is vague.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Nope, when I say confirm positive and negative I mean the speaker wires themselves. Make sure they are connected to ONLY the speakers and each speaker independently. RT
 

Permenter59

Member II
Problem Solved

Thanks Rob

This info has really helped. Found out that wiring didn't bring both positives and negatives to the unit. Was able to rewire the speakers and it worked beautifully. No voodoo now.

Also, there was a silver lining in all this. My plan was to toss the old unit -a marine am/fm cassette player. Turned out, I took the casing apart and was able to use the casing off the old unit for my new CD MP3 unit. It took minor reworking the casing so the wires could exit the back, but it looks really good and fit perfectly. Otherwise I was going to mount the new unit with brackets which would have looked like an indash unit hung up with brackets..not too pretty. Result is the captain, she is happy, and the kid will have a line for her ipod tunes..crew happy means I am happy.

Thanks again

Robert
 
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