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E38-200 mid boom sheeting question

celtium

Member III
Question:
Is there any information within the ‘community’ regarding a mid boom main sheet? My previous boat, an E35 MKII had end boom sheeting with very trick hardware and very nice to operate. My ‘new boat’, an E38-200 has factory stock original mid boom sheeting. The end boom sheeting was really easy to use in any wind. The mid boom sheeting is almost impossible in almost any wind. No wind it operates easily, in 20 knots I have to winch it, and it ain’t easy!! I have replaced the sheet and lubricated the blocks (original Lewmar), still a hard situation.
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Is this simply an issue of mechanical advantage re cantilever load or is there something that can be done, maybe as simple as changing the blocks?
Comments would be most helpful!!
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Thanks,

Jay
Celtica, E38-200
 
Seems to me it's just a question of adding more mechanical advantage, i.e. more blocks. There was a time when I thought I was getting too old and weak to sail when I was having trouble with traveler movement. Seems that two 90-degree blocks had seized up. Got a second opinion. Harken replaced the blocks for free.

Morgan Stinemetz
 

e38 owner

Member III
Mid boom sheeting

My 38 has the orginal mid boom sheeting with the original travler. Although not perfect it seems to work ok. The sheet runs from the boom to the mast and back to a two speed cabin top winch. I have noticed that a great deal of friction is added on the run down the boom to the mast and along the cabin top. One change I made a few years ago was to add a harken rachet block with a cam cleat and becket between the traveler and the double block with a becket that used to hook to the traveler. It works great in light - meduim air, jibes, etc. The winch is still needed when pointing to get the leech right. Overall the system does not have much purchase.
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
I think Ted replaced all his original blocks with double garhauers... IIRC, he really likes it... check old posts for his discussion about how he did it. I always figure it's excersize I'm not getting anywhere else:egrin:
Chris
 

Mindscape

Member III
Ball Bearing Blocks

On my 32 (with mid boom sheeting) I replaced all the blocks with ball bearing blocks (vs. the original Schaffer (sp?) blocks) and noticed a huge improvement in sheeting. Looking at some of the pic's in the other thread I'd bet better blocks all around and/or using the doubles to help handle the biggrer loads on the 38 would help out a bunch. IMHO
 

celtium

Member III
Thanks...

Thanks for the input, which led me to the Harken site, duh...why didn't I think of that :egrin:, but now for a serious question:

http://www.harken.com/rigtips/mainsheet.php

Looking at this link...it would appear the 4:1/16:1 Gross/Fine would work great on the mid boom...ya think? Or is there a reason for the 'geometry' of the triangulation of the factory layout? I think it would be fine but would hate to go to the expense and then not have it work!

Maybe I was spoiled with my other set-up, but '2 gears' were really nice in heavy and or light wind.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Main Laments...

I realize that it would be "challenging" to put in an aft track and main sheet on an E-38, but I sure like the bridgedeck traveler on our Olson.
Our factory block system is Harken, and is just like this illustration from the URL above.

Having always liked the E-38, that is one of the few design changes I wish Ericson had made, at least as an option.

When you move the boom attachment aft, the sheeting effort goes down exponentially, and single handing gets a lot easier. (IMHO) Traveler controls are *much* easeier to reach, as well.

Loren
 

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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I replaced my traveler and stock 4-1 mainsheet system with Garhauer stuff. Works much better but still need the winch in most conditions. The Barient 19ST mainsheet winch is undersized IMHO and I am looking to upgrade it. The Garhauer blocks made a huge difference in effort and the price was better than half cheaper than anything else. All metal too. RT
 

celtium

Member III
Yup

Loren - I agree whole heartily with you. My E35 MKII had an 8:1, 2 speed at the end of the boom,what a sweetheart that was compared to the 4:1 mid boom.

Rob, I also agree with the point about the undersized winch and outdated hardware. My E35 didn't require a winch to handle the main though and it was sailed in some honkin winds, so I'd like to design this one the same way.

I would love to get the main sheet to the ease of use of end boom sheeting but that may be futile. My 8:1 had a continuous sheet thus the 'two speed gearing', I wonder if I could do the same with mid boom sheeting? Instead of a single block, each would have to be a dbl block, hmmmmmm
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I used Lewmar Racing High Load 60mm blocks. Upped purchase from 5:1 to 7:1 and am happy. Still need winch in breeze but getting rid of the old lewmar ocean sheave blocks made a big difference. With a 7/16 mainsheet it sometimes gets a little stiff in super light air but inmost conditions it is pretty good. The unfortunate part is the location of the tackle on the boom. The 38's mid boom sheeting is really more like 1/3 boom sheeting. That makes the load a lot higher than end boom. But you can have full shade in the cockpit which took priority for me on the chesapeake. I also added purchase to the traveler to make it 6:1 from 4:1. Big help there.
 

celtium

Member III
Hi Ted,

Can you give me the part #'s for the Lewmar set-up? Can't quite get the geometry in my head for the 7:1, I would assume you have added one or more double blocks? Do you have an opinion on the Harken 4:1/16:1 arrangement I linked previously?

http://www.harken.com/rigtips/main3a.gif

My traveler seems to operate OK for the moment. I just added new sheets and dry lubed the blocks, so they may have to wait. $$$$$:esad:

Thanks - Jay
 
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erobitaille

Member II
Mid Boom Sheets

Jay,

I too change my purchase from 4:1 to 6:1 with Garhaur roller blocks made a big differnce. Anoth quick trick if you have not cleaned your line in the last few years throw them in the washer. Wash once and rinse 3 or 4 times your stiff (full of salt) lines will be much more supple and I think it reduces friction ie they bend easier around the sheaves.
 

celtium

Member III
Hi Pat,

Interesting, I assume you noticed a big difference? I installed new sheets as mine were probably original as the PO didn't do a whole lot to the boat.

Do you have the part #'s as well. I think I would like the 7:1 purchase better than the 6:1 I think.

Where in Richmond are you? I'm in Marina Bay, went out Sunday and had a heck of a ride in the slot, that is when I decided I needed to address the main sheet.

Thanks - Jay
 

erobitaille

Member II
Mid Boom Sheeting

Jay,

The invoice is on the boat. I have the catalog in front of me with my notes. I moved the fiddle Block from the travler to the boom which you have to do to increase the Purchase. I used a 50-02 US Fiddel with Becket. I put a 50-27US triple block on the traveler and took them to the 3 single blocks (50-13 US) on the boom down to another 50-13 US at the mast base. I'm also thinking about changing the traveler at some point.

Best thing is to call Garhauer at 909-985-9993 they will help you with what ever lay out you want. Great people I happened to be in SoCal so I picked up my blocks at the factory and got a tour, pretty cool.

We are also at Marina Bay on D dock. Come over some time right now we have the boat pretty torn up putting a new fuel tank, and cabin sole then port lights etc. it never ends.
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I used a triple with becket at the traveler car. On the boom is a double in the aft most hoop, with singles on the two forward, then goes to a mast base block and through the organizer. I ditched the extra single near the gooseneck. Try searching for the old thread where there should be pics. I was working on a rigid vang and multiple purchase outhaul about the same time but IIRC the thread is midboom sheeting or e-38 midboom sheeting or something to that effect. Just personal opinion but I have not been crazy about garhauer stuff. Others love it and I cant really find specific faults just not a big fan personally. They will make custom fiddles which can be useful in this application.
 

celtium

Member III
Thank you all, what a great resource this site is!

Hi Ted,

That picture is pretty close to the 'cartoons' I was drawing last night. I agree that there doesn't seem to be much need for the block at the mast boom intersect. Great picture.

Pat - I am also on D dock in slip 186, I'd love to look at your set-up. Sometimes I mindlessly walk the dock, sic, never saw your boat, what slip are you in?

Thank you all again - Jay
 

erobitaille

Member II
Jay,

Don't remeber the slip number off hand. We are on the last left hand finger down near the Robert Grey (large survey ship)

Ed
 

celtium

Member III
I'll be darned!

Hi Ed,

I was across from you for 3 years or so in my E35 MKII in D-106, how long have you been there?

I'll stop by and say hello next week.

Jay
 
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