With the newer style heat exchanger (3 inch diameter) installed on my m25 there is not enough clearance to remove the rigid transmission oil dipstick for checking fluid level. The heat exchanger has to be removed to get the dipstick out. So far the solution I have come up with is to take out the exchanger, then remove the rigid dipstick, cut off the rigid rod from the cap and make another flexible stick for checking the oil level. After reinstalling the heat exchanger I would simply use the flexible dipstick, without removing the exchanger, for monitering transmission oil level. Any suggestions or improvements to this idea would be appreciated.
Transmission Fluid Dipstick & New Heat Exchanger
Hmmm, there is no way to create a spacer to move the HX up, left or right out of the way enough to use the dipstick? Your solution will work but only YOU will know how to use it! That may present a problem in future, maybe. How about some pics to show the problem? RT
Or move the exchanger to another location - does it have to be where it is?...
//sse
//sse
Hidden Dip Sticks
Moving the heat exchanger would be a good idea if the engine compartment has room. Good luck on that...
We have the same problem on our '88 M25XP. I just remove the two bolts that hold the H.E. bracket down. Then remove both the large hose clamps that hold the H.E. to the bracket. With the bracket then removed and set aside -- and the H.E. free to slightly move to the rear, I can get at the hex bolt/cap that covers the fill hole and also has the dip stick on it.
Reading the lube level on that dip stick is a whole 'nother problem!
For added enjoyment I can remove the drain plug on the bottom with a stubby socket, while being unable to actually see it!
10 oz of ATF. Measure in a plastic beaker. Pour down an extended spout funnel. (It's no wonder that very few boat owners ever change their trans. oil as often as the manual sez to do so...)
Just went through this fun procedure a couple months ago.
Loren
Moving the heat exchanger would be a good idea if the engine compartment has room. Good luck on that...
We have the same problem on our '88 M25XP. I just remove the two bolts that hold the H.E. bracket down. Then remove both the large hose clamps that hold the H.E. to the bracket. With the bracket then removed and set aside -- and the H.E. free to slightly move to the rear, I can get at the hex bolt/cap that covers the fill hole and also has the dip stick on it.
Reading the lube level on that dip stick is a whole 'nother problem!
For added enjoyment I can remove the drain plug on the bottom with a stubby socket, while being unable to actually see it!
10 oz of ATF. Measure in a plastic beaker. Pour down an extended spout funnel. (It's no wonder that very few boat owners ever change their trans. oil as often as the manual sez to do so...)
Just went through this fun procedure a couple months ago.
Loren
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u079721
Contributing Partner
Not sure which task I hated more - changing the trans oil, or rebuilding the head.
What I came up with for filling the trans was a funnel with about three feet of tygon tubing attached to the end, which allowed to add a few oz at a time without spilling all over the place
As for being able to see the level on the dipstick, that oil is just about invisible on the stick! A trick I came up with to help visualize the fluid level was to remove the dipstick and quickly touch it to a clean paper towel, and roll it over once or twice. The oil would be visible where it stained the paper, and if you kept the stick aligned you could tell how far up the stick the level was.
What I came up with for filling the trans was a funnel with about three feet of tygon tubing attached to the end, which allowed to add a few oz at a time without spilling all over the place
As for being able to see the level on the dipstick, that oil is just about invisible on the stick! A trick I came up with to help visualize the fluid level was to remove the dipstick and quickly touch it to a clean paper towel, and roll it over once or twice. The oil would be visible where it stained the paper, and if you kept the stick aligned you could tell how far up the stick the level was.
Yeah, you basically have to figure out how much you can get out (measure that amount when you take it out) and then put the same amount back in - then check it with the paper towel as suggested.
Besides - humping over the engine is good for your flexibility!
//sse
Thanks for the responses. Having recently installed the new style H.E with all new plumbing I am reluctant to move it and be forced to spend for more hose. This past year I did unbolt and move the unit to get acess to the dipstick, and although it is a solution, it is a pain in the butt and lower back. I will attach a picture of the situation and see if a great idea comes up. I wonder if Torenson Marine sells a modified dipstick for this?
u079721
Contributing Partner
Just my $0.02 worth, but I would be WAY more worried about some jury rigged dipstick giving me the wrong reading for the trans oil level (with the possibility of running the tranny low on oil) than I would about the cost of a few feet of hose or elbows to reposition the heat exchanger.
By the way, just to state the obvious, you don't need complete vertical clearance above the tranny for the dipstick. Once you raise it about two inches you can angle it a bit and sort of slide it out at about a 45 degree angle. You might give that a try before being sure you really to jury rig something.
By the way, just to state the obvious, you don't need complete vertical clearance above the tranny for the dipstick. Once you raise it about two inches you can angle it a bit and sort of slide it out at about a 45 degree angle. You might give that a try before being sure you really to jury rig something.
Don't cut the dipstick!
If your transmission is a Hurth my strong advice is do not cut off the dipstick. The PO did this to mine for some unknown reason and the tranny always foamed oil out after it got hot, even if I knew the oil fill was correct. Take a careful look at a Hurth dipstick and you will see some small holes which are an elaborate venting scheme to vent expanding/contracting air without foaming out oil combined into the dipstick function. Cutting the dipstick destroys both functions. My vote would be raise the heat exchanger up a little or whatever.
If your transmission is a Hurth my strong advice is do not cut off the dipstick. The PO did this to mine for some unknown reason and the tranny always foamed oil out after it got hot, even if I knew the oil fill was correct. Take a careful look at a Hurth dipstick and you will see some small holes which are an elaborate venting scheme to vent expanding/contracting air without foaming out oil combined into the dipstick function. Cutting the dipstick destroys both functions. My vote would be raise the heat exchanger up a little or whatever.
I concur - you're just asking for it when you do that.
See if you cannot adjust it and move at an angle as suggested - if not, consider moving the exchanger - and go over your entire system first to see if there is anything else you need to do while the hoses are off, etc... :nerd:
//sse
Thanks for the valuable info regarding those vent holes, that kind of shoots down the most clever idea i have come up with for a long time! The exhaust riser is mounted directly above H.E. with barely any clearance. So going up isnt an option. However there maybe room else where to relocate. Thanks for the advice.
Rocinante33
Contributing Partner
OK. I did this yesterday on my M25 with a 3" exchanger. Loosen the hose clamp straps around the heat exchanger. The dipstick is on the port side. The mixing elbow is also port side directly above the exchanger, so you cannot lift the exchanger upwards. Instead, pull the heat exchanger aft (towards you). Then you have just enough room to pull the dipstick up between the heat exchanger and the aft end of the block. You can do this without removing the hoses if there is enough hose length. The hard part is to do it delicately without disturbing the ATF on the bottom of the dipstick. I measured two or three times to ensure a good reading. Remember; do not screw the dipstick down for the measurement.
All this done in the head down, feet up position, with a poor sight line and blood rushing to your head!
Unfortunately, it did not solve my transmission woes & I will have to pull & replace it.
$$$
All this done in the head down, feet up position, with a poor sight line and blood rushing to your head!
Unfortunately, it did not solve my transmission woes & I will have to pull & replace it.
$$$Too bad. I have pulled mine a couple of times and the last time installed a new Hurth ZF-10M, which I recommend vs. rebuilding. If your M25 is like the M25 in our 86 E32 you are in for a chore, the engine bell housing must removed. Somewhere I shared some details of the task on this site. Another thought - At the Seattle boat show The 20HP Beta Marine Engine I looked at is using a Kubota engine did not use a Hurth transmission. The Beta marine rep commented that the Hurths "did not hold up". I forget what they were using but that is an interesting comment. Be glad to share more gory details of a tranny swap if you like.
treilley
Sustaining Partner
Here is a thread on my tranny replacement.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3476
I highly recommend that you also replace the following while you have the tranny out.
All bolts between block and bell housing.
Damper plate.
Motor mounts.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3476
I highly recommend that you also replace the following while you have the tranny out.
All bolts between block and bell housing.
Damper plate.
Motor mounts.
Tranny Dipstick Related Question
I am having a bear of a time getting the hexnut/dipstick to loosen up on my Hurth tranny. PO probably never checked it.
Before I take the propane wrench to it, I would like to verify with you guys that it is a standard right-hand thread (can't imagine anything else on this). Have already soaked it with PB Blaster for weeks, used a couple of different rachet sets, even tried a manual impact driver but was concerned about hitting it too hard. Not much room and an odd angle for a breaker bar.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
I am having a bear of a time getting the hexnut/dipstick to loosen up on my Hurth tranny. PO probably never checked it.
Before I take the propane wrench to it, I would like to verify with you guys that it is a standard right-hand thread (can't imagine anything else on this). Have already soaked it with PB Blaster for weeks, used a couple of different rachet sets, even tried a manual impact driver but was concerned about hitting it too hard. Not much room and an odd angle for a breaker bar.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Dave, That might be a 17 mm socket. I will have to check next time I visit the boat...
It should turn - maybe with a firm tap on the end of the socket handle with the palm of the ol' Mk One Heavy Hand. to get room for that socket, I use an extension of about 6".
I believe that these are easy to over-tighten, FWIW. They use a metal washer "gasket" like an engine pan drain plug. Often we have trouble with how much more force to apply to the end of the socket handle once it snugs up.
Best of luck,
Loren
It should turn - maybe with a firm tap on the end of the socket handle with the palm of the ol' Mk One Heavy Hand. to get room for that socket, I use an extension of about 6".
I believe that these are easy to over-tighten, FWIW. They use a metal washer "gasket" like an engine pan drain plug. Often we have trouble with how much more force to apply to the end of the socket handle once it snugs up.
Best of luck,
Loren
treilley
Sustaining Partner
Dumb question Dave but are you sure you have the correct bolt? It is a left hand turn and it is a fairly large thread. It can also be fairly easy to crossthread so make sure you are not dealing with that. I think mine may be red. I have not been down there since the fall. The easiest way to get to mine is to remove the frame around the engine access and lay across the top of the engine with my head well behind the heat exchanger.
Dipstick
Thanks Loren and Tim. I have a full diagram of the transmission, so I know I am working on the right bolt. It is possible the PO cross-threaded it, which is why it is so stubborn.
Is the dipstick itself metal? I would not want to apply too much heat to it if there are any plastic parts attached.
Thanks,
Dave
E31 Independence
Thanks Loren and Tim. I have a full diagram of the transmission, so I know I am working on the right bolt. It is possible the PO cross-threaded it, which is why it is so stubborn.
Is the dipstick itself metal? I would not want to apply too much heat to it if there are any plastic parts attached.
Thanks,
Dave
E31 Independence
u079721
Contributing Partner
Mine (5432 - M40) was all metal. My nut was also a real bear at times to loosen, even though I made a point of not overtightening it. I never needed an extension or cheeter bar, but the hex part was only about 3 mm deep so the socket it not hold it very well, and I had to really pull for all I could a couple of times to get it free.
Taking a torch to it would scare the poo out of me. Maybe a real hot heat gun first?
Taking a torch to it would scare the poo out of me. Maybe a real hot heat gun first?
With the caveat of, don't hit it so hard as to crack the transmission case, have you tried a good solid blow right square on to the sucker? Many a stuck bolt etc. will free after a good sharp direct whack on the head to break corrosion. The hand impact driver on a nut won't give the same direct blow down on to it. If you were using the hand impact driver on a screw, then that force would be more like hitting it with a hammer directly - difference of a socket around the fastener versus a bit in the fastener. Hope I spit that out in a way that makes sense