Feeling fuelish

My E-27 diesel (Yanmar YSB-8) stalled this weekend. We got it started again and to the dock but narrowly before stalling again. After 2 yrs of dry dock storage, it ran pretty well over the last 9mos. of our ownership, slightly throttling up and down, notwithstanding. Inquiries to the local cronies have drawn a miriad of suggested solutions.
1. Fuel polishing- For $180, a guy comes and "polishes" the fuel and cleans the tank with a longhosed machine. Nice.
2. "a 30yr old aluminum fuel tank? Are you crazy? Replace it!" chimes another. A new permanant marine grade polyethylene tank "impervious to salt, alkalis and weathering-will not rust or corrode-complete with new sending unit" (Tempo) for the same $180ish. My Ericson friend Randy R once told me he had to cut up his old tank to get it thru the lazzarette. Do-able, but Whew.
3. Certified Marine Max Mechanic "Does your tank currently leak?" No. "Well, then why are you spending all this money either way? Wheel your Shop-Vac & Sears compressor to the dock, take out the sending unit in the aluminum tank-dump some solvent in- then, using the Shop-Vac,suck all the inevitable gunk out the tank with a gizmo you fashion out of bendable copper tubing. Then, dry out the tank using the compressor, then vac again. New Racor and engine mounted fuel filters, fresh fuel and GO! (This is the current top contender) Anybody else out there have any ideas?
I bumped into a friend at the grocery store last nite who, while grimacing, asked me what new cologne I might be using. Smiling sheepishly, I said "Diesel"

Shop Vac!

Desi, I'm amazed he's alive to tell the Shop-Vac story!:eek: Although diesel is "less" flammable than gasoline, when your sucking it through the vac your creating a dangerous "vapor" that's only looking for a ignition source. Shop-Vacs do not have "spark protected" motors! It seems to me that you'd be "on-the-brink" of re-inventing the TURBO-JET!:eek: Just My Opinion! Then there's the fact that your Shop-Vac will "always" smell like the aforementioned cologne!
Can WE watch(from a "safe" distance)?

Your better off spending a few bucks for a high-flow fuel pump and some hose!

Wow, Message duly NOTED- Thanks Steve!

A UTube video possibility?

Intuition (including mine, by the way...) to the contrary:
I found this at the Mythbusters site. I went looking because I kinda thought I remembered that episode...

___________
"A shop vacuum can act similar to a jet engine if it is used to suck up gasoline.
Busted !
Newer model vacuums have the air flow isolated from the engine; even if this were not the case, the only results would be a small fire."
___________

The lower flameability of diesel would seem to lower the risk quite a bit further, even. Still, I would not want to saturate my shop vac with diesel fumes and personally test the theory!


Best,
Loren

I'm a little confused by your post. Did you mean that the engine was in storage 2 years, and now you've been using it for 9 months and after 9 months of running OK, it now is stalling? Want to get the base line nailed down.

The answers so far all assume a fuel contamination issue. If you've been running 9 months, did you use the existing fuel or add fresh fuel to an empty tank? How much fuel is in the tank now? What type of filtration do you have?

What I am after here is trying to figure out if you sucked up a bunch of dirt, have inadequate filtration (if it's just the filter on the engine, you need one upstream first), or some other issue. This might be as simple as changing your filter elements (they are now clogged perhaps) and getting some clean fuel in it and bleeding the system and off you go. I would say if you are not leaking from your tank, keep your tank. I would address my own filtration before I spent big bucks on polishing. I can't tell you the number of times I've found engine issues are something simple.

Ok, Ok no Shop-Vac. To clarify, the whole boat sat blocked up for 2yrs. before we purchased it. The P.O. delivered the boat, and i'd be willing to bet he simply added fuel to tank. I don't know how much pre-existing fuel(if any) there was.
The filtration system is from tank, thru original fuel line to a Racor water separator, to what looks like a fuel pump("lift" pump?), to the engine mounted fuel filter with paper filter. This appears to be the original Ericson issue, whose judgement I trust. When I suggest simply replacing filters and fuel- the stories of bumpy conditons and engines refusing to start at the worst possible time due to jostled dirty fuel tanks and clogged filters, abound. For 7 pea-pickin' $ a day at the dock, I'll bide my time do some more research. The wealth of GREAT advice & input are part of the reason our site ROCKS!

Is your tank uphill from the Racor? You might just try bleeding it down into a jerry can or something. Then a little solvent and drain again. Of course, replace the filters and maybe while you're at it, replace the lines. If they're rubber then they've deteriorated at this point...

Biodiesel, btw, is a pretty good solvent. You might not want to use it in your engine on a regular basis, but it will knock out all that gunk and send it into your filter(s). I'd also wait on a fuel line replacement until after cleaing the tank.

You might also want to add an inline filter that lets you see what kinda crud is building up. I'm not sure if people do this on boats, but I've got one on the Mercedes and its helpful. One of the more experienced diesel sailors feel free to correct me if I'm nuts.

If the tank is not leaking why mess with it? You can make your own "fuel polishing" setup using a fuel transfer pump and some large Racors but this will cost money. Easiest and fastest is to have the fuel polished and install another large Racor inline before the original Racor. Set that filter up with a 30 micron element. That will get the big chunks and the remaining two filters will get the rest. Having the fuel polished should take care of any residual crud in the tank so bumpy conditions will no longer be a problem.

RT

OK, a starting point to get you to a baseline with the new information - but I still want to know how many hours you think it ran before it tanked - are we talking 1 hour or 20? Really shot fuel should hit you right off. A bit of dirt in the system can get you slowly as things clog up, well, slowly.

Here's a possible game plan:

1) You just don't really know the past maintenance, so change out all your filters. When you do this, you'll get a chance to see how much dirt is in the bottom of the bowls. You will probably use something like a 20 or 30 micron in the Racor and a 5 or 10 micron on the engine

2) If you really think your tank is a disaster filled with dirt and foul fuel, pick up a little 3 gallon tank like you'd use for an outboard, one of the squeeze bulbs so you can pressurize the line, and appropriate barb(s) and a 3 or 4 foot length of fuel line, and plumb a test tank with clean fuel right to the Racor. While you're at it, make sure the line from the Racor onward is in good condition. I've seen lines collapse internally. Rare, but can happen.

3) Don't forget you need to bleed the system after installing the new filters

4) If it runs well with your test tank, connect back to your original and see what happens. Of note, I've got a friend with an E-27 and YSB8 who has been running off a little three gallon tank for several years now. He really likes it because these engines are highly economical, and he always has a fresh 3 gallons of fuel.

The above should get you to at least a baseline to work from before you start to worry about your fuel pump, the injection pump, and the injector. Hopefully, you've just got a load of stirred up dirt, and a few filter changes and you'll be OK.

When I had a simular problem I did this: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3799&referrerid=93

Thanks everybody. The engine ran well over 20hrs before faltering. I may have overreacted to a few stalls, so today is "rinse day" I'll run some fuel in thru the sending unit hole and rock the boat around, and using a cheap MANUAL pump I found designed to syphon without the mouthful of fuel, extract rinsing fuel about 1/2 gallon at a time , several times. I duct taped a dowel to the hose on the pump and find that I can get nearly all crevices in the tank. Yesterday I found a fairly minimal amount of gritty, sandy gunk in the tank using this method. Then an inspection and possible replacement of draw tube inside the tank. Blow out the metal (probably original) fuel line. Fresh Racor and engine fuel filters, bleed lines and hope she starts. We'll see.

Old Steel Tank

The 74 E35II had a Welded Steel Tank. The bottom corners were chaffed
and rusted. My fuel filter was full of RUST PARTICLES. Inspected the tank
through the access panel and found the ENTIRE inside of the tank rusted.
NO amount fuel polishing was going to repair the problem
As you have a rusting steel tank 20-30 Yrs old....replace it with a welded
alluminum tank and save yourself the future problems of clogged filters
and engine damage :nerd:

Happy Fuel Tank