E- 25's and E-23's Centerboard

Hey Guys- I removed my centerboard today. If anyone needs some pictures related to the board or trunk, now is the time. Just let me know what you need. Rob Hessenius

Go for it!

Hey Rob, With such a great "Search"-able title why not throw together a nice, little, photo essay! I think there's a few 25's that would be interested for sure. I'd like to "see" the difference!:nerd:

More Pics...

I'm on the verge of pulling my e-23 out of the water next weekend. I would be interested in your "views" of the centerboard. Any commentary on actually how you do the job would be really appreciated. Thanks,
Joe

Been There, Done That

Hey guys, I replaced the centerboard on my '77 E25. What do you guys need to know? I may be of limited help, but maybe some. Also, Bob, in VA with an E23 who is on this site knows more than me.

Steve Swann
E25 Seahorse
Boise, ID

I pulled my e25 centerboard today. Other than being dirty, it seems to be in reasonable condition. It is much heavier than I expected: I see from other posts on this forum that it actually weighs just 150lbs. Can someone tell me what part of the centerboard contributes this much weight?

Also, I attach a picture of the forward portion of the centerboard trunk - it seems a bit raggedy. One can see feint traces of some previous fiberglass repair work. I don't have an understanding of what this area should look like. Can anyone advise?

Thanks (as always).

I did mine in 89 (and am getting ready to do it again )
The inside of the trunk excepting the pivot pin bore should be a complete fiberglass pocket, not necessarily smooth but of continuous integrity.
Your trunk photo shows some chunks of mat and glass missing and /or cracked. this area needs to be totally dried, filled,glassed and faired (all without shrinking the length and width of the trunk cavity itself. If the board itself is structurally sound (no cracks allowing moisture to swell and delaminate the board internally.) than you can sand it smooth, build it up with epoxy, fair it with microbaloons if necessary, barrier coat it and bottom paint it. the bottom cavity should be coated/painted before rehanging the cb as well. I had mine slik and pretty with a damn sharp trailing edge back in the day, unfortunately it is no longer so The budgetary process for new foils and bottom paint is in process. Would be interested to see what other trunk cavities look like. I know my cb has started to swell and stick this season

John:

Thank you. When you say the front should be a complete fiberglass pocket, do you mean that the area I've outlined with green dots should be fiberglassed with a small sheet of glass (say 1/8" thick)? (the red dot-dashes show the centerboard edge position when installed).

What is the consequence of just rounding the edges of the trunk and omitting this piece of fiberglass? Turbulent water flow / drag?

Just behind the green dotted area is a thickened piece of horseshoe-shaped material: I've no idea what purpose this fulfills.

Good luck with your own project: when I removed the centerboard there were some scrape marks on the sides -- I'm hoping it wasn't caused by thickening but just trapped dirt.

Joe~ Do not alter the shape of the top of the board or the interior of the trunk, where the pivot and stops are. The shapes are instrumental for the retraction of the centerboard. The bottom tip of the board can easily be repaired with thickened epoxy and layers of glass.

Your board really doesnt look all that bad, its just dirty and needs some lovin!

As Rob said, you should not change the size/shape of the pocket or CB head at all or it will not extend/retract properly. The horse shoe strap serves several purposes, it reinforces the trunk assy (a little) against side loads or any torquing of the board and minimizes any "play" or working of the cB when it is extended. What initially concerned me in your pic was the area just above the curved part of your dotted line. ie the lower forward edge of that strap. On first glance it appeared missing and/or delaminated, that may not be the case. Just clean the area up as best you can (med grit sanding, do NOT use a grinder) and look for cracks/delamination. Seal/repair any you find. You prob will not need any glass cloth at all (1/8" would be too thick if you do, see above)
If your board was delaminating/swelling it would be obvious, again as Rob said, pic doesn't look too bad at all. Clean it, sand it smooth (NOT through the gel coat !) and fix what cracks you do find. If any are weeping rust, that will be an issue.

Are you the guy I talked to on the phone a couple weeks ago?

Rob I just realized we kinda hijacked your thread,
Sorry!

John

New centerboard

I made a new centerboard for my E23 using a piece of 3/8 SS core sandwiched between UHMW plastic which I shaped to match my original board. I would post some pictures but can't figure out how to (being techno challenged - can someone explain how?). If anyone is interested in seeing photos of this with some instructions I would be happy to e-mail them what I have.

Gordon Robertson

Centerboard E23 & E25

Here's a few pictures of the board I made for my E 23. I have many more if anyone is interested.

Gordon

E25 centerboard repair

Dear Forum Members,

I recently purchased an E25 from an owner (non-forum member) near New Bern, North Carolina and discovered, upon having it hauled out two weeks ago in Oriental, NC, that it has a centerboard issue.

About a month ago, prior to the purchase, I paid not for a full survey, but for an in-water survey, as it would have been costly to have the boat hauled at the boatyard nearest to the owner's house in New Bern. To cover in some way for this lack of a haulout I instead paid a diver (independent of the surveyor) to inspect the bottom and confirm that there was a least a centerboard in place. The diver also confirmed that the bottom had been well cared for. The owner had apparently laid down quite a bit of money two years earlier when he opted to have the bottom painted with a heavy duty paint. This nice paint job had been worth the money for the bottom proved to be in excellent condition. The owner, at the time of the survey, reported that in the two years since he had had the bottom repainted he had never been able to drop the centerboard. He had not used the boat very much since that time, due to health issues. Both he and the diver speculated that the centerboard had in some way become stuck on account of a bond that had been made between uncured paint on the centerboard and uncured paint on the centerboard well. The diver banged and tugged on the centerboard to no avail. Despite the fact that the centerboard was never able to be freed during the survey I still went ahead with the purchase on account of the good price and good condition of the boat.

Having closed the deal a few weeks after the survey, a buddy and I sailed the boat from the owner's house near New Bern, down the Neuse River to the sailing town of Oriental near the Pamlico Sound. This proved to be a smart choice, for the people at Sailcraft Boatyard were very helpful with a number of things, including the adjusting of the new trailer that I had just purchased (see my posting E25 centerboard trailering weight). At any rate, upon having the boat hauled, the centerboard was discovered to split and swollen on its aft end. After much tugging on it with a crowbar, Allen, the owner of Sailcraft, suggested that the best thing for me to do would be to allow him to remove the pin so that he could extract the entire centerboard from the vessel. His argument was that a repair, or possibly a replacement, of the centerboard was necessary. I agreed to the extraction, and after quite a bit of tugging by a boatyard worker the centerboard at last broke free. Fortunately, Allen's assessment of the problem was that it would be unnecessary to replace the centerboard. He estimated that if his boatyard were to do the repair it would take about eight hours worth of labor and would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 to $600 total.

I opted to bring the centerboard back to Charleston and do the work myself. The only problem, or I should say challenge, is that I have not done any glasswork before. Given the curvature of the board I am wary of grinding it down to far and then not being able to build it back up properly. Likewise, I am wary of grinding it down not far enough and then having a problem with the layup becoming thicker than the original board. I'm thinking that maybe the best course of action is to grind it just enough to expose the rusted metal and then attempt to fill the void with epoxy. Here are explanations for the attached pictures:

001: Allen of Sailcraft Boatyard removes the pin
002: Boatyard worker tugs on centerboard with crowbard
003: Centerboard breaks free and hangs by pennant (needed replacing)
004: Centerboard with chunks of dried red paint visible (the culprit?)
005: The Crack

Thanks for any suggestions you may offer.

Best regards,

Roscoe Davis
Charleston, SC

E25, cb, Hull 226

So the question I asked in your other thread has been answered - You ARE in Oriental (or at least you boat is). So am I. Sailcraft is top notch yard, and Alan is an honest guy with a ton of knowledge. He is generally willing to give his advice, and I would defintely trust him.

If you are going to take on the work yourself, you definitely need to understand what you need to do to resolve the issue, otherwise, the issue will just come back. I don't know centerboards (so take my opinion for what it's worth, which is < $.02) , but expect it has a foam core and the foam is saturated given the crack, swelling, etc, and probably needs to be ground out and repoured. This means separating the two halves of the board to access the foam, and then after the foam is resolved, re-glassing the two halves back together as well as any necessary fairing, and finally finishing it for re-immersion. This is could be a big project, but with the right information and tools, you can certainly do it. Just make sure you know what needs doing.

I would also add that $500 seems a pretty reasonable price for this level of repair.

Good luck!

A grinder and West Systems and fiberglass cloth and a few tools and a few hours your board will be perfect.

Rob,

I appreciate the phone call and the details you offered for the repairing of the crack in the centerboard. You mentioned the collar or sleeve that you installed as reinforcing material over the pivot point at the top of the board. Looks great in the pictures. What to ask more on the phone but sounded like you needed to run. What sort of material did you use? Is that aluminum? I'm wanting to make the board as strong as possible before paying to have the boat hauled up on slings for reinstallment of the board.

John . . in response to your question about the boat being in Oriental . . . the boat is actually down here in Charleston. My buddy and I trailered it down here a couple of weeks ago (I descibe this in the thread "E25 centerboard trailering weight" Included are some pictures of Sailcraft Boatyard).

Thanks for all the help fellas,
Roscoe

Today I took the centerboard from my E25 over to a buddy's house to get started on some repairs. He has recently, in his spare time, taken a course on fiberglass repair at a local technical college. With his two inch grinder (with 30 grit paper) connected to his air compressor he took off a thin layer of bottom paint near the top of the trunk and along the blade of the board. We stopped with this.

He thinks that the board is in nice condition overall, but that before going any farther it would be a good idea for me to strip the bottom paint off of the rest of the board myself, or pay a yard to blast it off with soda. His thinking is that with 35 years worth of bottom paint built up on the board, it would be good to start with a clean slate. There are two reasons: 1.) because it is clear that there was at least one earlier repair on the board; thus stripping the paint will allow us to see where this earlier repair begins and ends, 2.) because stripping the paint will give us more space to work with in laying up the cloth along the blade (he thinks that while we are at it, it would be a good idea to strengthen the entire length of the blade with cloth since foam is visible along most of its length (see pictures in posting above)

I asked him if it would be better to just sand/grind off the old paint instead of stripping it or having it soda-blasted off. He thought not. He believes that sanding will ruin the gel coat and will thus leave the board unprotected. He says it would be expensive to re-gelcoat the entire board.

What has everyone else's experience been? It seems, from what I can tell from reading around that it is common to grind off the old paint and old junk, glass and grind the problem area, then recoat the entire board with bottom paint. Is there gelcoat involved when it comes to centerboards?

Many thanks for any suggestions,
Roscoe

Roscoe Davis
Charleston, SC
E25, cb, Hull 226

Get a scraper at your local hardware store and have at it. A basically flat surface is very easy and fast to scrape.

Roscoe~ There is no "bottom paint" on your board. the red is just plain ole paint. You are over engineering this simple fix.

Rob,

You're the goto man when it comes to the E25 and I have learned a ton from your many postings and from speaking with you on the phone. On this one, I gotta say that my board appears to depart from the norm. The former owner (second owner) took good care of the bottom and had it repainted every two years from the time he bought the boat in 1983. Part of the bottom paint job included the centerboard, since it sat in the water year round at his personal dock in NC. Over the years the paint layers built up -so much so that the last bottom paint job on the centerboard essentially glued the board up inside of the centerboard pocket. The boatyard must have pulled it up into the pocket before it had fully cured. At any rate, now that I own it, and the board is out, you can see hugh gunked-up globs of paint on either side of the board. This is one of the reasons - if not the primary reason - why boatyard worker had to pull the board down with a crowbar when I had the boat hauled out. It took a lot of tugging, even after the cracked part came out. That's what makes me think it was not really the crack that was causing the jam.

So . . . the owner told me about bottom painting the board, but what he didn't tell me was that at some point in the past he ran hard aground while the centerboard was in the up (retracted position). Allen, the owner of Sailcraft Boatyard in Oriental, NC, showed me the evidence of the fiberglass repair work that someone had done on the hull of the boat (on either side of centerboard pocket) to remedy the damage. This hard-aground event also essentially power-sanded all the fiberglass off the blade of centerboard, since the entire blade, in the retracted position, was fully exposed when the boat ran aground. As a result, there is nothing but foam core along much of the blade.

My fiberglass buddy here in Charleston thinks that if we don't lay cloth along the blade, then we'll have to do another repair job before too much longer. In fact, there is already a hairline crack visible in this foam area - separate from the big rusted crack.

This afternoon I followed Tom's advice and scraped off the big chunks of paint. I then used a finishing-grade pad (looks like a floor buffing pad) on my grinder to gently remove the remaining layers. Hopefully we will get epoxy and cloth on it next weekend and then get her prettied up the weekend after that.

Will send some pictures when there is more to show.

Best,
Roscoe

E25, cb, Hull 226