Steering system replacement E35-2

Im looking at replacing the steering system in my E35-2. It seems that the two metal plates that are glassed in to the haul are getting ready to let me down at a very bad moment. The plates are very rusted out at the bottom and port side plate has a lot of play in it when you are steering the boat. I have anchoured the plate to stop the movement but this is just a band-aid that I had ot apply on a trip last spring. Anyways, does anybody have any suggestions for replacement systems? Maybe even a good upgrade system. Thanks for your time. Chris

You might want to have this thread and the previous one combined, maybe.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=2392

Loren

Im having the same problems with my 33 year old rusted out, glassed in plates as a few of you are having. Has anyone ever replaced their rusted out steering systems with something new and inproved? My partner wants to reinforce the rusted out stuff with wood and fiberglass, I want to replace it all. Any suggestions on this subject? Searches haven't come up with much.

I did not replace mine after removing it (as described in the post Loren linked to) as I have tiller steering.

Reinforcing with wood and fibreglass does not sound like a permanent fix, although if done right it might last a while. Cutting out the rusted metal at the fibreglass, and glassing in a new structure on top of the old glass, is the way I would go about it; having it fabricated out of stainless steel would probably be within reasonable budgetry limitations for the work involved. Loren may know of some gucci carbon fibre material that would work even better.

But, as I stated in my previous post, your biggest problem is access to the site. I had already removed my original fuel tank, which had significant corrosion at the aft end. Even if you can reach the area lying on the tank, if your weight on the tank opens a pinhole leak, and the fumes are escaping just as you start running the disc cutter, or you slip and the wheel hits the tank, EYOA could be mourning the loss of a member and her owner.
So either you will have to render the tank inert (the subject of past threads, may not be too hard if you have diesel), or remove it (also the subject of past threads, it involves cutting out the deck above it or one of the plywood panels around it).

How old is your fuel tank? Could it use replacing anyway? That question may determine how you should proceed.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

Consult Edson for new steering system. They have systems that can fit just about any application and replacement parts are available. Their customer support I have found to be excellent and in the past they have given me small parts for free. As for your fuel tank removal is it gas or deisel? If its diesel simply pump it as dry and you can and cut it out. No risk of explosion there. Gas is a whole different story. Drain the tank then fill with water. Repeat several times to remove fumes.

Plan B?

Speaking of Edson...
If your present steering system is both old and infirm...
You really ought to take a look at the "drag link" systems that have come along in the last 20 years.
Edson call theirs the CD-i Geared Steering Pedistal. I have helmed a boat with one of these and it was more like the feel of a tiller system. Nice.
This would eliminate all the cables and blocks and stuff glassed to various parts of the hull aft.

No more chain-cable connection, either.

FWIW.

Best,
Loren

Cutting up a gasoline tank.

Ted and all, I remember attending a fire safety demonstration at work about a hundred years ago. A fireman from the company fire department poured an ounce of gasoline into a GLASS milk bottle (see what I mean about a hundred years ago?), swished it around and poured it out. He then poured soapy water into the bottle, dumped it, poured and dumped again and again and again. After pouring the last of the soapy water out, he tipped the bottle neck downward and held a match under it. A blue flame surged out with expected woosh. He did that again and again and again, telling us that he could do that for hours and the vapors would still be present enough to flame. That lasting memory branded into my mind suggests to me that a couple of water rinses in a gas tank might not be enough to render it safe enough to go at with a saw. Sorry, I don't have a suggestion except that I seem to recall hearing of using nitrogen gas in the tank to prevent fire and explosion but can't attest to the validity of that. Can someone far wiser on the subject than me chime in here? Regards, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

We had that problem with our steering on our 32-2. The steel support for the steering that was glassed to the hull broke free on the port side during some particularly challenging off-wind racing on our way to puerto vallarta. Thereafter, whenever we put it through stress, you could hear and feel the 'clunk' as it lifted away from the hull and then bounced back down.

Before we could repair that, we had our s/s cable break -- again, this happened in a race under spinnaker in 25 knots at 2 am. NOT a good time for that to happen. The new s/s cables and chain were a piece of cake to replace compared to the support structure.

We thought about replacing it, but it is in the basic support structure ... which is not something normally replaced. It seems to be a custom build.

We fixed it though, instead of replacing it, and it works great.

First, the area around the anchor point was cleaned real well, with a wire brush, vacuum and solvent (Don't remember what kind but it was something from west marine)

Second, we used Marine Tex to form a dam. Around the outer edges and in the gap between the two anchor points.

Third, we took West System epoxy, mixing it in batches, and pouring it into the resevoir formed by the Marine Tex dams. We layered the WS in over several days. What resulted is the anchor points are now epoxied in with about 3/4 of an inch of cover. It is as firm a hold as it has ever been.

Hope this helps.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

Loren Beach said:

Edson call theirs the CD-i Geared Steering Pedistal. I have helmed a boat with one of these and it was more like the feel of a tiller system. Nice.
This would eliminate all the cables and blocks and stuff glassed to various parts of the hull aft.

No more chain-cable connection, either.

Best,
Loren

Click to expand...

I am picturing a system that would connect directly from the pedestal to the rudder (I am not very familiar with wheel steering systems). Since the deck in that portion of the 35-2 is reinforced with 3/4" plywood glassed underneath, and should be able to take any associated loads, that might work quite well. If so, it would save an awful lot of work.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

Edson CD-i steering info

Here is a copy of the Edson PFD doc concerning this type of steering. The diagrams might be helpful to picture how it works.

Loren

Chris--

The PO of my boat replaced the steel plates with wood and fiberglass. He glassed ( what I think is spruce) 2x6's vertically from the hull, bolted to the engine compartment sides of the cockpit walls, and then anchored the pulleys for the steering cables to the 2x6's. It's hard to explain, but when I bought the boat, the surveyor commented on the ingenuity of the design and quality of the work. The steering is tight and responsive. I'm not too worried about corrosion since this part of the bildge is dry, and the wood is sealed. I'm not sure if it's a lifetime fix, but the new system is five years old and shows no sign of failure.

I can take photos the next time I am down on the boat, and I will post them.

Glyn Judson said:

[snip] Sorry, I don't have a suggestion except that I seem to recall hearing of using nitrogen gas in the tank to prevent fire and explosion but can't attest to the validity of that. Can someone far wiser on the subject than me chime in here? Regards, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

Click to expand...

Years back, I was chatting with the owner of a high end automotive restoration shop about how they handled repairing e.g. welding on gas tanks. They were running exhaust (for the CO) through the tanks for several hours. If I remember correctly, the CO can absorb the vapors and remove them. I think they may have kept this going on while working on them.

I can not stress enough that I would not use this method to prepare a tank for cutting etc. without verifying this information. This is my memory from a conversation circa 1987/88!

ChrisS,
Photos would be greatly appriciated if you could spare the time..... Thank you everyone for this info it is exactly what I was looking for. My boat is going through a 10,000 dollar upgrade right now before a trip to the Queen Charlottes next summer, so you will be hearing from me quite a bit this winter. Thank you again for your time and I look forward to seeing those pics.

Photos

So here's what the PO did to replace the rusted out metal plates. These are 2x8's (not 2x6's as I said earlier). As you can see in one of the photos, the 2x8 is shimed with a piece of plywood between it and the wall of the cockpit, and then through bolted. The PO generously applied epoxy to encase the lumber and protect against mosture.

Hope this helps.