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E-23 Stuck-up centerboard

rainbow-t

Junior Member
So last weekend we went out after having the boat in the slip for @3 weeks. Great weather, great wind, put the sails up killed the motor and tried to let the centerboard down, Nothing...When we got back I opened up the area where the centerboard line attaches to the wire line but that didn't seem to reveal any useful information.
Any suggestions? I assume this is the original centerboard, how heavy is it?
Thanks for any help...
 

sleather

Sustaining Member
Up?????

I've never heard of one being stuck in the up position! I had the "down" problem!:mad:
Is this the first time youve tried to lower it? (since the purchase)
Was yours a "saltwater" boat, in it's prior life?
Any idea how long(years) it sat on the trailer?
1st thing I can think of is "binding" @ the pin.(see pic)-not likely
2nd thing is that the board has delaminated inside the "trunk"(bad)-possible
3rd thing is the bottom paint on the board has "fused" to the trunk.(fixable)

Based on the photo cut a length of dowel, pipe or whatever, to fit down the "tube" and
give'r a few "good whacks"!(tape some string to it to get it back)
Have a "small" amount of "slack" in the board pendent(control line)!!!!
If she's "stuck-up" perhaps a little "sweet-talk" LOL

The "board" weighs about 175-200#(2 man carry)-S.S. spine w/86# of lead
See my post " E23 Mast Box/Centerboard"--further down in M & M
Good Luck, Steve
 

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NateHanson

Sustaining Member
Boards can get stuck in the up position if the boat is grounded, and muck or gravel gets wedged in there.

Or, if it's sitting for a while, aquatic life could jam it up. (Zebra mussels on your lake?)
 

jmpirate

Junior Member
Stuck Centerboard

I have an E-25 c/b, and when I got it, the board was severely jammed in place. The centerboard was original to the boat, and the PO had attempted to drop it by beating on it with a long stick. Needless to say, that did absolutly nothing. We ended up having to get the boat out of the water, and applying a hydraulic ram to remove it. The splines are not stainless steel, just plain steel. The salt water had gotten in thru cracks along the top and bottom tips, and the rusting steel expanded.

For some pictures look under "projects" at http://www.piratesplay.com
 

sleather

Sustaining Member
S.s.?

I'm pretty sure my '79 spine is S.S. as the last time it was out '95 the "lifting eye" was "nice & shinny"!(fresh water)
Even if "rainbow's" is S.S. they can still "go south"(rust) in saltwater!
 
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Bob in Va

Member III
Door # 2

I'm betting 50 bucks that Steve's choice # 2 is it. Though the lifting tang is high quality 316 ss, the spine of the board is mild steel and once water gets in there (and it always does, sooner or later), rust soon follows, swelling follows that, and cracking of the filler material is the last follower before the process repeats. I have seen several of these boards - they look like a split open hot dog. The only fix is to pull the board out and replace it, as it is generally too far gone at that point to repair. The problem starts with water ingress in the area of the pin or when the board's sheath (fiberglass) has been compromised by striking something in the water or being loaded wrong on the trailer.
 

rainbow-t

Junior Member
This weekend's project

I was hoping not to have to pull the boat out of the water yet. We had it out mid Sept and didn't have any problems. The PO sailed in a lake and kept it on the trailer in between lake trips. Our slip is in the Pamlico River which is brackish. I don't remember us hitting anything or running aground. I think I'll try the stick trick first as that"s the simplest. I swore I would never buy another centerboard boat after we sold our Hunter22. That centerboard disappeared on our first time out on that boat after running from Harvde Grace Md. to Baltimore. When we tried to head up into the river we couldn't figure it out as the board looked like it was down...Apparently we hit a log or someting and snapped it right off. No steal in that one. I'm hoping my luck is a bit better this time.
I let you all know.
Joe
 

sleather

Sustaining Member
Another BOaRd-ing winter?

Bob, Watchout! There may be a big run on these things, mines coming out in Feb!, no problems yet! Except for the stuck "down" thing!

Joe, Good Luck, Don't loose faith, these are GREAT little boats.
Did you say it did work in mid Sept? Keep us posted!
 
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jmpirate

Junior Member
Stuck Centerboard

To help illustrate the worst case senario, here is a picture of the bottom leading edge of my former centerboard and a shot showing that the lifting eye is stainless, but not the spine.

jim
 

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Bob in Va

Member III
Old Timers

Most of those original boards lasted 25 to 30 years, and when you think of the stresses they took that's a pretty decent service life. If you build one (or have one built) to match the factory model, be prepared to give it lots of time and money. I've done several, and can say that my present one is the best one yet. It has no metal in it except for #8 bird shot that was mixed with polyester resin to make a slurry and poured into voids cut into the wood core (actually LVL beam laminate). It's strength comes from 8 layers of glass and carbon fiber around the outside - it weighs about half as much as a stock board, can be raised without using a winch, and goes down easy. It is completely sealed around a Delrin bushing, which is a loose press fit and can easily be pushed out. The pin passes through the bushing, and the board swivels easily. It was much easier to make than a steel, lead, resin, fiberglass board (and melting that much lead gives you daine brammage) and cost less than half as much. Took lots of time, but still not a hard job for anyone familiar with laying up fiberglass. I have full size tracings of the E23 and E25 boards if anyone needs one.
 
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sleather

Sustaining Member
Your the Man!

My old '72-Cal 21 had a 376# solid lead "bulb" @ the end of a 6'lg.-1/2"steel plate! When "beating" upwind you could feel it flex/vibrate. Totally cracked & delaminated the fiberglass foil. I rebuilt that in '83 w/ additional steel plates, many more layers of glass & NO gelcoat. It's still alive & well!

After MY recent event, "E23 Mast Box & Centerboard" I may pull my board out sooner than planned. The boat is "out" now anyway(sad to say)! The "stop" has been busted for 3 years, so if the board looks good, another year or two, if not a winter project!

Bob, After reading about your fix and Steve Swanns 25' that's the road I'll be heading down eventually! Too bad I upgraded the lifting system(look ma, no hands)
 
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TwistedLogic

Member II
Make sure you visually inspect the inside of the trunk before you get too panicky. I could not believe the number of barnacles growing inside of mine first time I hauled it. Not on the centerboard, on the inside surface of the trunk. Fortunately my original board (1977) still looks to be in great shape, and works a lot easier now too!:egrin:
 

Steve Swann

Member III
SS E23 c/b spine for sale in Boise ID

Rainbow,

If you find that your centerboard is in need of replacement, I have one of Bob's metal creations that I ended up not using that is for sale. If you want it, it is just a bare spine for a 23, but Bob has built a number of these and this one is correctly built. You'll have to foam fair and glass it, but the hard work has already been done by Bob. Replace yours and you'll never have to worry about it again.

Steve Swann
Boise, ID
 

rainbow-t

Junior Member
What if...

Ok, So we've been thinking all week about what about this and all the permutations. If it's split open like a hot dog...agahhh... or jambed up by some marine life holding it up like a hostage. How we were going to build a cradle to work on it while we yanked the board out and fabricate a new one....
So we went down to the slip with an assortment of rods and ropes to get this thing unstuck. As soon as I touched the cb line I knew we where in for surprise. A pleasant one so far. It's unstuck! We let it out, cranked it back up, and let er down again. Easy as a switch blade. Didn't know what to think, so we went sailing...
Thank you very much for everyones suggestions, comments and advice. My son is coming for Thanksgiving so the plan is to take his truck down and pull Rainbowt then a take a look. At any rate it's got us jump started on building a "cradle" to work on the bottom stuff.
Joe
 

sleather

Sustaining Member
Gremlins

Gremlins! nasty little characters! Stop knot in the mast base!
That's where they live!

Glad to hear you got a reprieve, enjoy it while you can!
At least you got that "jump start" on the 6-P's
Now we're ALL confused? Thermal Dynamics?
 
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NateHanson

Sustaining Member
Maybe while it's working, you should take a dive, and make sure the trunk is clean. Take a putty knife down there, and scrape out any growth thats on the inside of the trunk. Could save you from trying to haul it and clean it out without being able to lower the board.
 

sleather

Sustaining Member
Maybe while it's working, you should take a dive, and make sure the trunk is clean.

That would be out of the question HERE!:eek: LOL
Great idea, your water temps still running ~75*(correct?) Quick dip!
Good opportunity to also check-out what "board" problems you have!(well cooked hot-dog?)
 

Second Wind

Junior Member
Another New Owner

Hello! I, too, have been reading about E23s for some time and decided that I needed to add one to the fleet. I live about 90 mile's drive west of Lake Mead, Nevada, and if you look on a map you'll see not much is out there except for desert. I have to trailer sail to every body of water I go to- which is primalily fresh water Lake Mead. I've owned an E25 for about 6 months but haven't yet put it into the water as my tow vehicle will not handle the weight-yet- so just found an e23 in Portland and took delivery a couple of weeks ago. The first thing I looked at was the keel, and found a chunk missing in front and the pivot pin exposed on one side. It has primalitly been in salt water and since the subject has appeared here in the past, I felt that it was surely fixable= and it was the only e23 I could find for sale. And I towed it 1150 miles home.

The only problem I am seeing is there are not many recent e23 contributors. There weren't many made so i am hoping that there are enough people that love this boat to keep the dream alive. I need details on what info is still available for a new keel or new keel pattern. If this is still available, I'd love to hear about it.

Steve

E23 #366
E25 #67
old 22' M22
 

davisr

Member III
Steve,

Welcome to the forum. I believe you might be the first person on the forum to own both an E23 and an E25 simultaneously. Your right. There is not a lot of traffic on the forum when it comes to the E23. Bob in VA, one of the persons who posted a response to this thread back in 2007, is the go-to-man for the centerboards. He recommends against building to original specs, which makes sense in many ways. You can, though, build to original specs if you measure the original carefully and rebuild accordingly. I've did this myself in the fall and have completed everything except pouring the mold and glassing. When I get it all finished, I plan to post pictures of the many steps I took. The pictures from the E25 owner JMPirate provided some inspiration. I can say that I'm glad I demolished the board and started all over. After I bought the boat I removed the cracked board. Did some grinding on it and planed to patch it up, but ended up putting it aside while I worked on other things on the boat (an also things on my house) for about two years. In that time, as it sat in a dry, temperature-controlled environment, it degraded even more. The splitting continued until it was distorted. When my buddy and I tore it up with chisels this past fall I was really surprised to find that despite two years drying time, the steel was still wet on the inside. Moreover, there was almost no steel left in the vincinty of the pin. This meant that the pin was supported only by about 1/2 inch of foam and a thin layer of glass. This is, no doubt, why others have lost their boards.

Regards,
Roscoe
 

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