E32 model differences

Hi all, I'm glad to be a member and Ericson owner!

I have an e32 mkIII. I need to find out what is different between the mkIII and MkII models. Specifically, has the rudder been modified, are the sail dimensions the same? I am entered in the 2008 PAC CUP race and don't want to fight the boat downwind the whole way. I'm in the process of prepping the boat since it is new to me. Any advice is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!

Don Saunders,
SV/Northstar

E32-3

Hello,

there are more knowledgeable people here, but one thing I can tell about the rudder - yes, it is much bigger on 32-3. Gives a lot of control. Not sure about sail dimensions, but rig is very much the same. Also, to the best of my knowledge 32-2 had a traveller in the cockpit, while 32-3 has it on the cabin roof. Overall, 32-3 is a bit wider (or so it seems) and has a bit more accomodations.

Please keep posting your progress for the race praparations. Very curious about the equipment list for the TP, too.

Regards,
Stan

Tbear,

I have a 32-2 (1970 version) I just finished a 90 mile off shore race. Before the start, we were actually rafted to a 32-3 before the start so we saw the differences side by side. The 32-3 is a foot wider and had more water line. The interior, as you can imagine, is much roomier. The traveller is placed differently. Ours is on the bulkhead separating the two cockpits, his was on the cabin top. The shrouds are much farther in board, thus the jibcar tracks are likewise farther inboard so you have better sheeting angles upwind.

As for the rudder, we took our 32-2 from Marina del Rey to Puerto Vallarta and a rudder modification was a must. I had the rudder narrowed and lengthened to give us more offwind control and upwind lift. It certainly did the trick. I did not examine the Mark III's rudder in any detail so I can't tell you what the difference is.

I can tell you that the Mark III's PHRF rating is 30 second better than the 32-2. I would be aware of PHRF ratings for purposes of qualifying to get into the Pac Cup. Our 180 rating, for the most part, excludes us from the longer races. San Diego to Manzanillo, Newport to Cabo, Transpac ... all have 35' minimum deck length and 150 maximum PHRF rating, but I know some smaller boats in the single and double handed classes do the Pac Cup.

If you have any questions about getting one of these ready for a longer off shore race, let me know. We've just been through it.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

Thanks

Thanks Stan and Jim. I knew there had to be differences.

Jim, I'd love to talk about prepping the boat. I'm already registered and my application accepted for the Pac cup so the race is not on to get the boat ready.

Somewhere I read that you had a great radio system. Can you explain that and the installation. It's one thing we don't have on Northstar and we're researching our options.

Also, I am definately needing some sails. I'm checking ebay etc but I really don't know how to determine spinnaker size! I'm thinking I'll need an A-sail and one light sym.

Thanks for any and all advice, hints, suggestions!

Don Saunders
SV/ Northstar

sails for the race

Well, I believe your I is 42' and J is 13.8'. If you give this info to any sailmaker (who can look up your rig dimensions from his database) they can determine the correct maximium spinnaker size so as not to incur any penalty.

Roughly the luff will be close to 42, and the girth, or width is limited to a max of 1.8 X J (13.8), or 24.84 feet.

For that race, I would suggest an AP full size A-sail, and a smaller, heavier reaching A-sail (about 80-85% of full size). Besides the 150-155% genoa, I would have, at a minimum, a high(ish) clewed 105-110% sail-high enough for reaching, but not so high it is useless going to windward-your sailmaker will know what to do. Something in between 105-150% would be a good idea if you can swing it, but not mandatory for this race. Of course you will have a storm jib.

I would strongly consider a small staysail-they are cheap and can help a lot in the typical conditions you will see.

We can help you a lot with sail selection, but really for a race like this, you NEED a sailmaker to work with yo to optimize whatever you have for the race, develop the right repair kits, etc.

I can give you some good recommendations (as can many of our members) depending on where you are located.

Good luck.

Seth,

As always, you are a god!

We're having Ullman make us a Kevlar #2 just to round out the quiver. We have three spinnakers, 2 of which are max sized and one of which is about 80 percent of max, but all are symmetrical. I'm still considering an A-sail for long reaching legs.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

Geez....

Easy, Jim! I wouldn't go that far!

But seriously, Dave U has become on the best solutions for offshore sails-especially considering the quality, service and bang for the buck-and they are nice guys to boot!

Regarding sails-kites in particluar, I know we went through this before, but especially for these kinds of races I would still go with all A-sails on your boat and also the 32-3. I am convinced that provided the sail is designed for the application, it will sail just as deep and a bit faster than a sym kite-all other things being equal. You can square the pole and run deep as much as you want, and you are able to gybe it sprit style (just lose the pole and gybe it off the tack line), which may be easier shorthanded.

I know you got differing opinions from your sailmaker, whom I know and respect, but that is how I would do it. One of the things that worked out really well was that we could build the AP/runner A-kite with something like Airex 700 in the front-which is VERY strong, and 600 (or even something in the .5 oz family) in the leech, which is the part that needs to be light weight for light air, yet since you are not tight reaching with this sail, the leech does not load up too much. That means you don't need a dedicated light air sym kite-this one will take you from very light to pretty breezy conditions. It is OK to have slightly heavier cloth in the front(where the big loads are an A-sails), as long as the leech can "float" up-

That is one big reason I like this approach- 3 A-kites total will cover all conditions where you might want a kite, and you could slide with 2. That is not really possible with sym kites..

OTOH, you seem to be doing VERY well, so why mess wiith success!!

Keep making us proud!!

S

Great Info!

Thanks for the discussion between A-sails and Sym sails. I've never sailed with A-sails so am comfortable sailing with alternative weight Sym sails -- even short handed. I'm going to dig some more. Jim I'll be in LA just after labor day and I'll give you a ring. Hopefully you'll be around to talk.

Seth, I do want to put in a Staysail. How far back from the headstay should the staysail tack be located? Also, do you have any suggestions about reinforcing the deck to take the loads or do you need to add running back stays to keep the mast straight?

Thanks. What a great resource to have all you to talk with!

Don Saunders,
SV/ Northstar
E32-3

Staysails

Hi Don,

No problem. If you are talking about spinnaker staysails, the rule of thumb is 30% of J back from the stem. Anything close to that should be OK. Also, provided they are just for use with kites (as opposed to genoa staysail/cutter rig), you should be OK with a good backing plate (about 2 X the area of the deck plate), and not need a deck tie down. When the angle gets deeper than about 140 degrees apparent you can move the tack from centerline to the windward side, and at these angles the halyard tension should not be too much for the stanchion bases-so you can use those as an attachment point for the staysail tack-the first one back from the pulpit will be about right when sailing deep with a staysail.

Running backs are a good idea in general for serious offshore work-even if you don't use them all the time. The biggest need for them would be if setting up a genoa staysail for use either under a headsail or alone for very heavy air. In this case, and when using this sail, you should have runners attached to the mast where (or close to where) the staysail halyard intersects the mast (if using a staysail halyard-if using a genoa halyard, attach the runners halfway between the upper spreaders and the masthead) and use them when flying a genoa staysail. Also, for a genoa staysail, the deck plate should be tied down to the TAFG, which means a wire or rod from the deck through the V-berth area and fastened to the grid structure.

But, if the only staysails will be spinny staysails, I would not worry too much about it. Use the masthead halyards for these staysails

Keep the staysail size to about 75-80% LP, or it will cause more problems than it solves by interfering with the airflow around the kite.

Staysails:good for .3 knots when you set them, AND when you take them down!!! If you are using one, periodically ease the sheet way off and watch the speed. If you are faster without it, lose it!
Have a ball!

S

Hey Jim
Which Ullman loft are you using? I currently own a Catalina 25 (soon to own an Ericson 32-3) and most of us in the Catalina association use Gary Swenson, and his Ventura loft. He is the sail consultant for Catalina. I have my new main and jib from him and they are great. Is anybody going to a loose footed full batten main on their Ericsons?

Frank,

My sails are actually built at the Santa Ana facility which I believe is the headquarters where Gary Ullman is. I've had 4 sails built there and only had a complaint about 1, which was addressed immediately and I didn't have to go anywhere. My #3 blade was apparently cut slightly long, so that on a full hoist, there was still just a tinch of slack in the luff. Even though there is a cunningham cringle in the sail, I wanted a tight luff on a full hoist. They came down to the boat, picked up the sail, fixed the problem and delivered the sail back to the boat.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

Loose Footed Main

Frank,
I bought a loose footed main from Gary Swenson at Ventura Ullman earlier this year. It is spit batten (full for the top two). So far I am very happy with it. In all honesty, due to transmission problems and other issues, I have not been out too many times this season. Most times have been in light air, and I am very happy with the sail in those conditions.

Gary is very knowledgeable and anything but a high pressure salesman (sailsman??). He will advise & work with you. Seth knows him & has spoken well of him, too.

Loose footed main

Frank,
I had a loose footed full batten made for my 32-3 and it's worked great for me. I've had it for 3 seasons (it's from Doyle, with help from Seth) and it has great shape. Full vs. split battens have been discussed in other threads, but I like the full battens for the sailing we do here (on Lake Michagan). I've had no issues with either the full battens or the loose foot and like the way I'm able to control the shape.
I did replace the outhall with all line (as well as the topping lift while I was working on the boom) and new blocks and it feels like that made the outhaul easier operate. I know some of the guys here have replaced their outhauls and increased the advantage, I stayed with the original advantage but used new blocks with ball bearings.

Overall I'm quite happy with this set up for my main, now if I could just get that new genoa...

Jib Numbers

I hope I'm putting this in theh rigfht place.
We are looking at replacing the original (believe it or not) jib from the E320-200 purchased new in 1990 sail number 913.
We have a self tending 97% jib
Hogin Sails in Alameda gave us these numbers I-42 J13.72 P-36 E 11.5
BUT I notice in the specs page on this site J-13 and P-38
The sail maker said he saw more than one choice for nembers while doing research.
I'm over my head in this I admit. What am I looking for so as to make this work simply and cotrrectly the first time is knowledge of the system..
Does the sailmaker come down and measure exactly after you have accepted his bid? i assume this is the case, but you know the story about ASSUME

Details, details....

A sail maker can give you a "ball park" estimate based numbers from his boat database. A firm quote will only be possible when measurements are taken off of YOUR boat. Either you or the sail maker will fill out the detailed measurement form, and some money can be saved if you do the measuring, IMO.

A local sail maker should be able to give you the most personal service, from the initial visit to measure the boat to the bending on of the new sail, and perhaps a short sail with you to check out how it sets.

If you d/l the measurement forms from any of the sail maker web sites, you will find that the information is quite picky and detailed, as it should be.
Here is just one example -- http://www.ukhalsey.com/sails/howtobuysail/buyasail.asp
Download the PDF Measurement Form, on this web page.

(I have used UK sails on our three boats over the years, but there are many other fine local and national choices.)


Cheers,

Loren

Loren knows

As L says, get one of the measurement forms and give it a try-this way you will be able to see which of the measurements is right(you may not get it exact for a perfect fit, but you will know the difference between 36 and 38 feet for the P ( approximate mainsail luff length), and same for the J (foretriangle measured from the forward face of the mast to the stem fitting at the bow).

From Vacaville you can get service from the Bay Area sailmakers, and all the majors (North UK, Doyle and Quantum and Ullman) are represented in the Bay Area, along with lots of smaller lofts (Pineapple being one of the better ones).

Loren has had great luck with UK, and they should do well for you, but I don't know the Bay Area UK guys personally (I know the Northwest, New England and Chicago UK guys, though)..

I DO know Bill Columbo at Doyle SF, who has built tons of Ericson sails, and should know the boat by heart. He is a good guy-also try "Elvis" (that is what they call him) at Quantum. You can say I referred you to either of them (and pay double!)...

Good luck!

S