Painting Crisis (Longest Post Ever?)

First, let me apologize in advance for the length of this post. I am new at all of this and I really need some guidance and, perhaps, a little encouragement. I'll try to set out my questions at the end of this lengthy post.

I bought a 1985 Ericson 26 last August. My first boat - and she's a lovely little one at that. I spent the fall and winter undertaking and completing a multitude of projects, including: rebuilding the heat exchanger, new GFCI AC receptacle, new Xantrex multistage battery charger, new upholstery throughout, new Class D DSC VHF radio, new Garmin GPSMAP 478 chartplotter, new galley foot pump, new cowl vents, new Simrad TP10 Tillerpilot, new blower, new Whale Gusher bilge and holding tank pumps, new Raritan PHII head, new Raymarine ST60 speed and depth transducers and instruments, new Windex, new AGM batteries (starting and house), new bottom paint, all new standing rigging, all new running rigging, new lifelines, and probably a bunch of other stuff that I've forgotten about.

I mention all this work because it illustrates my commitment to this little boat, and perhaps because it reveals a bit of a personality quirk on my part.

Before anyone asks: yes we've been sailing her (or at least learning to sail on her) and we're having a blast.

With all the work that's been done, she's in great shape. I have plans to install a new cabin sole (I've read all the posts) and I'll be using the whole EZ Smart Woodworking System by Eurekazone Inc. (www.eurekazone.com) but that's a matter for a separate post. I mention it now because I think that's a system that is worth checking out. When the new sole is installed, the interior will seriously look like new - though it will not be as pretty as a Martin King boat (sadly, his standards are unattainable for me).

That just leaves a few exterior cosmetic issues. Well, last weekend I went out to do a few gelcoat repairs, mostly around the port toe rail which showed some cracking and crazing in a few areas. To my horror, my delicate sanding of those repairs revealed that my gelcoat, at least on the toe rail, has had its very last gasp. I can only assume that a few decades of cutting and polishing had taken their toll.

I was really quite distressed at having made the boat look worse than before I started. I think it's going to drive me crazy to leave it like this. I guess I knew in the back of my mind that eventually I'd need a paint job. "Eventually" turned out to be "now".

Philosophically, I think I need to forge ahead and tackle this problem. I subscribe to the view that when you stop being proactive, or at least stop responding to problems when they occur, that's when the whole thing can start to crumble on you. In essence, the paint job is the "next thing" that needs to be done on the boat. And if I don't do it, the work that I've already done becomes of questionable value, and it becomes hard to justify making the effort towards "ship-shape and Bristol fashion".

So I call a local painter. He says that Awlgripping the topsides could be about $5,000, but the deck is another story. He said that the deck would cost at least three or four times what it costs to do the topsides. Essentially, he told me flat out that it can't be done for a boat of my age (meaning the economics just don't make sense). I liked his forthrightness, and he's right.

So now I'm looking at taking this project on myself. I'm quite unsure of my ability to tackle this problem. Time is an issue, mostly. I can certainly do some weekend work, and my wife and I could probably take a week off too, but I'm not sure that's enough. Out in the Pacific Northwest, weather is an issue too. I sure don't like the idea of interrupting our sailing, but if this job is going to get done, it's going to have to happen in the summer. And if not this summer, then when?

I've examined my access to all the deck hardware. I'm pretty sure that I can get everything off without too much difficulty, though there are some notable exceptions. For example, the port pushpit fittings and the port stern cleat seem utterly impossible to access. I suppose I could leave those fitting in and paint around them, but I'd like to take the opportunity to rebed, and I wouldn't mind new stainless cleats to replace the old aluminum cleats. The sea hood looks like a bear, and I'd probably leave that in. However, if I leave the sea hood in, I'm not sure that I'd be able to remove the Ronstan traveler (unless it is affixed only with lag bolts). The grab rails, I think, are just lag bolted into the FRP "lumps" molded in to the cabin top, though I'm not sure. The exterior rails are definitely not affixed to the grab rails in the cabin below.

I'd have to remove the rub rail, which is a good thing because it really looks terrible. I've read the posts on this topic, and it looks like I'd be able to use the same Taco aluminum extrusion and fittings that Geoff Johnson used (see: thread, "Rubrail Replacement").

I also think that I'd get a pro to take measurements of my dodger so that it can be re-skinned. Since I'm painting, I'd probably want to fill all the screw holes from the existing dodger's attachment points. Because I'll soon need a new dodger anyway, I might as well get this done now as I definitely don't want to be trying to fill screw holes after doing all the painting work.

I actually think I'd be able to remove all the deck hardware, filling the reamed holes with thickened epoxy, in one solid weekend with a single helper. I would leave in the hatches, the mast step organizer, the sea hood, the traveler, and probably the pushpit and stern cleats. I'd leave the rig up, so I'd also have to work around shroud fittings too.

One of my biggest worries is having a bunch of open holes in the boat. There will be holes around water, pump-out and diesel deck fittings (which I plan to just "lift" out so I can work around them); holes where I've removed cowl vents, and massive holes in the cockpit where I've removed the engine instrument panel coaming box and the speed and depth instruments. I guess I'd just have to rig tarps all over the place. Other holes from deck fittings I'd leave filled with epoxy and ready for re-drilling.

I'd plan on doing all of the deck work (including sanding, priming and painting) while floating in my slip. I'm partial to Interlux Perfection only because the product seems readily available and I think that PS rated it as highly as Awlgrip (or so I have read). It might be easier to work with too.

When that's done, I'd haul out and do the topsides, finishing off with the installation of a new rubrail.

OK, so here are my questions:

1. As you can infer from my post, I'm pretty unsure of myself when it comes to a project of this magnitude. Can I do this? Am I being realistic or do you see "pie in the sky" thinking here?

2. Am I completely nuts to think that I could finish the deck over the course of about 9 days (two full weekends plus a week off work)?

3. Any thoughts about removing the pushpit and stern cleats given the apparent impossibility of accessing the nuts? Geez, I even thought about installing two or three cheesy looking access plates at the back of the cockpit so I could access these fittings. Any comments about removing the traveler, sea hood and grab rails?

4. Any thoughts about repainting the deck while the boat's in its slip? Should I panic about rain while the boat has a number of large holes exposed?

5. My biggest worries are about the lack of time, working conditions, weather, and the fear that I might start something that's actually way over my head. Any words of wisdom here would be welcomed.

I know these questions are a little inane. That's why I'm a "newbie"...

Just a few thoughts. Estimate how much time it will take and how much money it will take and multiply them by 3. That is more realistic.

The key to painting is preparation and painting conditions. Spend lots of time doing the nasty prep work. Don't waste that time by thinking you can get good results doing it outside. Forget about rain, dew will destroy the paint as much as rain. Check out the link below. This guy does incredible work so I was very surprised to see the difficulty he experienced. That being said, I also stripped and painted my mast and had no problems and the results are great. But I did mine indoors in a controlled environment. I would wait for the off season(you guys do take a break sometime right? ) and try to get the boat indoors or at least covered well.

http://www.triton381.com/projects/maintenance/mastpaint1.htm

1. Sure you can do this. I did my deck and it was easier than I had expected. Takes time and a little practice to get good results, but it's very doable.

2. I think that's plenty of time to do the deck. I'm not sure if you could do both deck and topsides in that time. With two people working, then yes, I think you could. My deck (working alone, took probably about 2 weeks of almost full-time work, but I removed and reinstalled full-length aluminum toerails, and I had a lot of filling and fairing to do on deck because of extensive crazing of the gelcoat.

3. I'm not familiar with your model of boat, so I have no advice, except that I'd do my best to get these off. The quality of the job will be directly related to how much stuff you remove from the deck.

4. Don't worry about the rain. Get a tarp that's covers all the open areas, and rig it up in your standing rigging/over the boom. You can even leave it up to reduce the amount of stuff that falls on your wet paint job.

5. Go for it.

My response is based on my experience in painting two boats--one a 22 foot, the other a 26 foot, and I did deck and topsides (hull above the waterline) on both. I did the 22 foot boat outside in the spring in my backyard; the 26 foot in a warehouse over the winter (temp. about 50 degrees F.). Both turned out very well, and what I learned is:

1) preparation is very important as any slight imperfection will be magnified, especially if using a high gloss paint;
2) a primer coat, followed by two coats of paint are needed for a good finish, and it's wise to allow for a third coat in case the second doesn't turn out quite as well as you would like;
3) Interlux Brightside and Petit Easypoxy are one part polyurethane paints--each worked about as well as the other, and both turned out very well, looking like new;
4) the deck is much harder to do than the topsides, because it has so many different surfaces--flat deck, cabin sides, cabin top, cockpit, windows, etc.
5) both can be done with a combination of good quality roller and brushes;
6) taping off areas not being painted does help speed up the painting, but takes time--I eventually painted without taping most areas, but I have a steady hand;
7) although I understand you want to take the opportunity to re-bed deck hardware, removal and rebedding is a big job which will significantly increase your time required; maybe consider doing some, but not all, unless you can take the time, being selective on those that require rebedding the most; for example, it is possible to paint around stanchion/pulpit bases, and rebed them another time.
8) painting outside provides better light than inside, but adds the complication of insects, dust and possible weather problems. If you can time the painting during a period of good weather, painting outside from about 10:00 am til about 4:00 pm is possible. Don't try to fix any imperfections by going back over an already painted area--it usually makes it worse; small insects can be easily brushed off with a damp cotton cloth after the paint has dried completely, and don't leave a noticeable mark (beetles are another thing altogether, leaving a little trail of foot marks--see note about a third coat above.
9) after prep work, each coat of the topsides took me about 2 - 3 hours and was quite easy as it's a smooth, flat surface; the deck took about eight hours, maybe a bit more (I divided deck and cockpit into two areas over two days)
10) if doing the topsides, take the opportunity to repaint the boot stripe as well--but it will need to harden for several days before you tape it off to do the topsides or the tape will peel the new paint off;
11) you can paint the deck while the boat is in the water, but not the topsides or bootstripe, in my opinion
12) all of it is messy work, so you will need a work area where you won't be in the way of others--ie. you can't leave paint cans, dirty rags, roller tray, etc. on the dock for people to stumble over
13) although I had done amateur house painting, I had not painted boats before I started, but didn't find it too different--I had to take my time and be careful, but both boats looked like new when I was done, for the cost of the painting supplies and my time. Definitely worth it, and I would do it again. I have no experience with the two part paints--though Don Casey says they aren't that much different if you thin them correctly to the temp/humidity.

I hope that helps. Good luck!

Frank.

Imho

I like you Rob have done all the up grades that you list in the beginning of your post. Standing rigging, New Sails, painted mast and boom, electronic up grades, even Radar and so on. I have a 1973 E-27 and I would love to have a new all grip paint job. First off, I think you should get other estimates. I think your painter is way off the charts in his pricing. I have had estimates to do the top sides and deck on my E-27 with LP being the lowest estimate at 3K. That individual said he could do it in the slip. The highest estimate I received was less than 5K. Granted I am here in Southern California, not sure if that makes a difference. I have seen some of the results of boats painted right in the slips with only taking a minimal amount of the hardware off and they look great. They just mask or paint right up to cleats, winches, pad eyes and so on and then scrape the excess off with a razor.

I have accepted the fact that I sail a 34 year old boat that I purchased for a little over 6K but I have now invested about a total of 25+K into. If I was to sell her tomorrow I could probably only get 15 to 18K for her. I would recommend looking into the market value of your boat and weigh that against what you have invested in her. Personally I just cant justify spending even another 3K on a paint job. My gel is thin in areas as well, not as bad as some boats I have seen for her age. I do wax the boat twice a year to preserve what I have. Believe me, other things may come up like a engine over haul or a dismasting (extreme) that you may need money for in the future. The engine over haul did happen to me and it wasn't cheap.

Personally "I would rather be Sailing!" as the old bumper sticker reads. A 34 year old boat is allowed a few blemishes and wrinkles just as I am allowed at age 51. If your gel coat is white like mine, I do have a couple of tricks. Mix up some Awl Grip to match your paint to use as touch up. I have even used Rustolium semi gloss in a few spots and you can hardly tell. Yeah, I know a lot of folks here will scoff at that.

I guess my point is I don't look at my boat like a Show Car but she does still get a lot of compliments at my docks. One of my favorite was when I over heard this guy say to his wife while walking past my boat. "This boat sure looks loved".

IMHO Sail her, love her!

Skipper Jeff

Painting Topsides

Rob- It sounds as if you are working on making your 26 a beauty. What you have already accomplished was quite extensive. I think Tim R hit it right on the head when he stated to triple your time plans. I do believe that you are fully capable to undertake this project, but I would step back and ask yourself do you want to trade this for sailing time? Preparing your surfaces will be the most time consuming event on your project sheet and is the most critical measure to gain great results. Replacing your rubrail will be difficult while at dockside. 75% of your hardware will be off quickly, but the rest will be a pain in the ass! Removing hardware and properly painting and bedding is the way it should be done. Will you be able to live with the knowledge that under that cleat is the old gelcoat, not fresh paint and new bedding? It kinda sounds like that might be an issue. But, yes you can do this by yourself.
I really dont know what your weather/seasons are like in BC. I would maybe think about hauling the boat early in the Fall and use your free time then. I think this will save lots of man hours. To get this done in a shorter time frame, it will require you to be efficient.
If at all possible, spend some $jing$ and get the boat into an indoor envirement over winter and work at your leisure. That would surely keep you in the spirit which long winters tend to drag you down.
For whatever direction that you may choose, I wish you good luck and please feel free to ask questions, anytime. Rob Hessenius

Jeff Asbury said:

One of my favorites was when I over heard this guy say to his wife while walking past my boat. "This boat sure looks loved".

Click to expand...

I'm gonna use that one...

Have you thought of regelcoating the damaged areas rather than painting the entire boat -- you might be able to delay that big of a project to a time when you're ready and have the rig down so you can store it in an environmentally controlled facility.

I've used the Preval sprayer for small jobs, although a friend uses a brush and insists its easier and gets you the same result. Either way you have to sand it to a gloss, then compound and wax. The most difficult part will be matching the shade of white.

Thank you for all the thoughtful replies so far!

I keep changing my mind about this project. I was tired just writing my original post!

Having thought a little bit more about the project, I now think that it's unrealistic to think that I could do the deck from start to finish in 9 full days. It's more likely that I'd have to plan on having the boat out of commission for at least 6 weeks. As I said, time is an issue for me. So I'd probably have to spend an evening here, and a weekend there, removing hardware and maybe even priming, sanding and fairing. The time taken away from work would probably have to be devoted to taping and painting - though I think that with this approach it should be possible to get the topsides done too.

There are so many things to consider. I'll truly have to do the project in my mind from start to finish before I even lay a finger to the boat. I have an image in my mind of having the boat hauled and then spending a day or two researching and building a water level for the boot stripe. I can't afford to put myself in those kinds of predicaments, and I don't want to rush into a poor job either. These considerations make me wonder if I should start planning the project now, for execution next year.

I've also done more reading on paints. I'd really like to use a two-part LP, but the Ericson deck looks particularly challenging with its FRP toe rails. These would have to be brushed and tipped, not rolled and tipped. I thought briefly about doing the deck with one-part LP, but there is no clear dividing line between the deck and the hull in those small areas where there is no rubrail. I definitely want to do the topsides in two-part, so I guess the deck would have to follow suit. Does anyone have experience with brushing and tipping two-part (as opposed to rolling and tipping)? I would definitely sacrifice some durability for a product that is easier to work with - even "idiot proof".

I love the idea of unstepping the mast and working indoors over the winter. However, I really don't know of any such facilities in my area (Vancouver, B.C.) save for the shipwrights that are actively using them for their own purposes. I suspect that the use of such facilities would be expensive too. However, if anyone has any knowledge of such facilities in my area, I'd love to hear about it.

Brian, your suggestion about using a Preval sprayer to do some spot repairs is an excellent idea that I will use if I decide to defer the project until next year. I happen to have enough waxed gelcoat and tints to do the job. Do you cut it with styrene to make it spray? I've briefly looked for information on this topic and I can't seem to find a lot of info on: how much styrene is to be used by volume (if, indeed, you do thin the gelcoat with styrene); how to use a Preval sprayer effectively; whether thinning with styrene would affect tint; or even safety considerations when spraying (as opposed to painting or puttying) gelcoat or gelcoat paste.

It depends on the gelcoat -- its a polyester resin that gets catalyzed with the MEKP. Styrene will help it bond to the old polyester resin which is what your boat is made of. To be honest I can't remember what I thinned it with -- it was whatever was recommended on the can. Check out https://www.minicraft.com/ -- they specialize in boat gelcoats, and they have a coloring service. I've always wondered how you're supposed to send a sample of your hull for color matching, but whatever. They even have an "aerosol" version -- I've never seen it used, but it sounds cool. Gelcoat won't cure in the presence of oxygen, so it has to be covered, either with plastic wrap or polyvinyl alcohol, although I've heard of a brand that will. As you can see, it all depends on what you get and there are a number of manufacturers.

I've done this work myself, and also had it done by a professional, and I think mine had a better color match, maybe because I was more motivated.