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New twist on leaking portlights

treilley

Sustaining Partner
I recently installed 6 new opening portlights in my '85 35-3 from Bomar. I feel I did a pretty good job bedding them and some professionals I had look at them say they look good and should not leak but they do. I found a drop of water on one of the dogs after some moderate rain last week. I removed the screw that holds the aluminum dog block onto the extrusion and a stream of water ran out of the extrusion. The only visible holes in the extrusion are the two at the bottom that are used the attach the dogs(that the water came out of). The only other break in the extrusion is in the top center where the seam of the extrusion comes together.

I have called Bomar and so far I am very disappointed. First, they kind of implied there was nothing they could do. When I pressed them(they are after all still under warranty), they asked me to prove that the portlights are indeed theirs with photos(even though they have a record of my purchase last fall). I sent the photos Tuesday night and left a message yesterday but have not heard a thing from them.

Has anyone dealt with Pompanette in this capacity before? Should I start going up the food chain? Not all the portlights leak although I feel the others could start any day now. I will probably wait until noon today and then start asking for supervisors. At this point I would be happy with my money back and buy portlights from Lewmar or Newfound metals but I don't think they make any for the size opening I have.
 

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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Wow.
I figure that your parts cost alone must have run about $1200., give or take. I am a little surprised, but not too shocked, at their attitude... :(

That's a lot of money, and then there is your labor, rolls of 3M Blue tape, and sealant.
From the pics it looks like their ports install just like a Lewmar, i.e. clamping the outer alloy rim against a bed of sealant, with clamping pressure provided by the inside frame pressing against the cabin side, tightened by machine screws intoa part of outer frame extrusion.
(I installed a new additional Lewmar port for our aft cabin and got familiar with this engineering.)
http://en.lewmar.com/products/index.aspx?lang=1&page_id=29
This is a link to the current "standard" Lewmar port -- handle style different than the ones Ericson was installing in the late 80's, but sized the same.

With the outer frame litterally "glued" to the cabin side gel coat, I do not see how it could leak. On the Lewmar, OTHO, there is a chance of seapage around the lens where it presses against the gasket -- I had to verrrrry carefully bend in the little locking tabs for the catches, just a mm or so to cure this.
(If you can slide a piece of paper thru the closed lens-to-gasket interface, it needs tightening.)
Bomar probably does some of this stuff differently, but from the pics it sure looks familiar.

Good Luck,
Loren
 
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tenders

Innocent Bystander
Is there any possibility that there is a leak not from around the outside of the hatch, but from somewhere else on the boat that is rolling down and sneaking in around the inner frame?

In other words, can you get it to leak by spraying water only on the hatch? If so: the hatch leaks. If not: something else is leaking.
 

Cory B

Sustaining Member
Bomar Customer Service

A quick second-hand story:

The local chandlery will source parts for me from just about anyone, except Bomar. They say they are just too hard to deal with. If I recall correctly, they told of a customer who had bought a brand new bomar hatch 6 mos previous via them, but for whatever reason needed a new gasket. Bomar said they needed a sample of the gasket material to provide the right one. When they recieved the material, they claimed the hatch wasn't theirs, and that they couldn't supply a replacement gasket for a 6 mos old hatch.

We may be in the market for new portlights in the next year or so, and based on the story above, and your experiences, we probably won't even consider Bomar.

Best of luck.

- Cory
 
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jkm

Member III
I replaced a few ports last year and was struck with the fact that the original ports had a seam that was at the top.

I was a builder for many years and this seam struck me as odd. I would never allow anything to be installed in a wall or roof with the seam up. After all I live in a world were buyers can't wait to file suit after closing escrow, it's a way to get a little money back.

With homes on mountain tops or windward sides we'd test all openings with hoses before interior drywall was installed. Every pipe, door, window, vent and I've never seem any frame with the seem at the top.

We'd accept the reality that water needs an escape route and to deny a way out was trouble.

I purchased ports with no seam because of my insecurities.

Course it doesn't rain here, just burns.

Good luck

John
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
An Un-Seamly situation...

I replaced a few ports last year and was struck with the fact that the original ports had a seam that was at the top.
<snip>
John

Now that you mention it, that does look funny. All of our Lewmar ports have the seam on the bottom.

Loren
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
Tenders, the water is inside the extrusion. Water is not supposed to get in there ever. Has nothing to do with how the unit is installed or surrounding area.

Time to go up the food chain.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
My experiences with Bomar were less than satisfying as well. They couldn't answer the simplest questions and then just ignored email and phone calls. I won't deal with them. But then again, I do have a reputation for holding vendors feet to the fire...... :D Sorry to hear you have issues. I hope it works out. RT
 

Emerald

Moderator
As you go up the food chain, you should make them aware of this discussion thread and the fact that they are doing a great job of developing a lousy reputation. I went through something similar a few years ago, and it's amazing how knowing that the company response is being publicly discussed snaps Customer Service into line. It doesn't excuse that you have to put it in their face, but Bomar should care about this and do something to remedy it. If they have anyone on staff who cares about customer satisfaction and the company's future, they would want to hear about all of these complaints.
 

lbertran

Member III
Source For Ports

This is only tangential to this discussion, but a few months ago someone posted about a company named Mariners Hardware being interested in building replacements for the fixed portlights used on Ericsons. I called them at the time and the gentleman I spoke with was very helpful and said they can build fixed ports to match ours either out of aluminum or stainless. It would look very nice to use stainless replacements for those fixed ports as well as the opening ports. I've bought a couple of vents from these folks and was happy but don't have any personal experience with their ports.

http://www.marinershardware.com/index.html
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
I agree David. I work for a service company and we have the reputation of being the best in the state. We are also the largest in the state. The reason I come to work every day is because I am very proud to work here and am very proud of the relationships I have formed with my clients. It is a shame that not everyone feels service is so important.

I just got off the phone with them. They asked me the following questions:

-Where is the boat?
-What year and model is the boat(already told them on the first call)
-Take another picture so we can see the gasket(I refused, they agreed that it had nothing to do with the problem)

Why do I feel like I am getting the run around? They promised that the next call would provide me with a solution. I promised I would not be so friendly if it does not.

I have lots of patience but don't use it up.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
I bought the Bowmar replacement ports and so far have not experienced any leaks. The water can intrude only through the cabin - port seam, the seam in the extrusion or the gasket, so maybe some investigation will lead to a solution. When installing the ports I was struck by what a lousy job Ericson did with the cutouts. Some were so large and irregular there was only a 1/8th inch overlap and I had to build them out.

As for the Mariner ports, they are over twice the cost of the Bowmars.
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
I just got back from the boat and 4 of the 6 of mine are leaking through the seam in the extrusion. At this point I will likely ask for my money back and try to find some better portlights from a different manufacturer. I don't trust the 2 that are not leaking and I certainly will not trust any replacements. They obviously have lousy QC to go along with their lousy customer service.

Geoff, what are Mariner portlights. Who sells them?
 
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lbertran

Member III
Mariner Ports

Tim-
Look at my earlier post for the mariner link. There's another company called Newfound Metals that makes ports in many sizes. Friends of mine with a Tartan 37 used Newfound Metals ports and are happy with them. Sorry for your troubles, what a PITA to go through all of that effort only to have to re-do it.
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
I have been to the Newfoundmetals website and they are nice but they don't have any they come close to the size I need. The cutout opening on my boat is 6 3/4 X 12 15/16. Lewmar makes a standard portlight that is 6 3/4 X 13 5/8. I am willing to lengthen the opening a bit to accomodate the Lewmars but the NFM portlights aren't even close and I am sure a custom size would be very pricey.
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
Update: Got off the phone with them about an hour ago and now they want to come see the boat in person. I said no and I wanted to speak with a supervisor. Still waiting for the callback that should have happened within minutes according to the person I was speaking with.

I will be pushing to get my money back at this point. I want nothing further to do with this company.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Looking at its web site, Pompanette does make Hood and Bowmar products, not exactly unknown items. Moreover those particular hatches have been used in many Ericsons and apparently have worked out pretty well (as are my replacements). To me their offer to come to your boat is an indication of a willingness to work with you.

Oops, missed your comment about the leaking through the seams in the extrusion. If that's clear then it is certainly a manufacturing problem or the ports were somehow damaged in shipping (as was a Lewmar hatch I ordered a few years ago.) The Mariner ports were mentioned by Laura. They are stainless. I too have their SS vents which are very nice. Pompanette sold me my replacement ports at 1/2 price or $200 each.
 
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Emerald

Moderator
Hi,

I might go with Geoff and let them come out and see what happens next. I've had good pre and post sales support from the Hood side of their organization. It would be nice to think it extended to other parts of the organization. However, I do understand you being at the point of just wanting to throw in the towel and never dealing with them again. I went through agony remedying a botched job with a local big name rigger and will never do business with them again under any circumstance.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Checked mine today (rainy) and noted that one of mine seems to leak a bit. Don't think it is the gasket because I wiped it off and drops still appeared at one of the handles. Now I'm glad I applied penetrating epoxy to the edge of the plywood interior before installing the new ports.
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
I spoke to their factory rep on Friday afternoon. He finally called although the customer service manager never did. He agrees with me that this appears to be a manufacturing defect. He would like to see them and since I will be on the boat on Tuesday anyway, he is coming down to take a look. He has already offered to replace the leaking portlights. I will show him the leaks and hopefully talk him into refunding my money. Unfortunately these are custom made so replacements are at least 4 weeks out.
 
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