Leon Sheean
Member II
It seems that CNG is not available here in Northeastern Ohio. Is I travel east, where are refills possible? Noank? NYC? Annapolis? Help! I really don't want to convert to propane!
CNG Refill
- Thread starter Leon Sheean
- Start date
Leon
Try calling your local natural gas suuplier,since they usually have cng filling stations for vehicles.
They might be able to lead you in the right direction.
Here in Los Angeles we can get exchanges for around $30 a tank.
I agree, that I would only convert if I were cruising in Mexico, that CNG is a better system.
John
Try calling your local natural gas suuplier,since they usually have cng filling stations for vehicles.
They might be able to lead you in the right direction.
Here in Los Angeles we can get exchanges for around $30 a tank.
I agree, that I would only convert if I were cruising in Mexico, that CNG is a better system.
John
Tom Metzger
Sustaining Partner
CNG suppliers
Corp Bothers is the primary marine distributor. They have a list of suppliers where you can fill or exchange tanks. The price varies directly with the distance from the pipeline.
http://www.corpbrothers.com/marine.htm
BTW, LPG has many advantages: price, availability, availability, price, price, etc. I have never heard of anyone converting from LPG to CNG.
Corp Bothers is the primary marine distributor. They have a list of suppliers where you can fill or exchange tanks. The price varies directly with the distance from the pipeline.
http://www.corpbrothers.com/marine.htm
BTW, LPG has many advantages: price, availability, availability, price, price, etc. I have never heard of anyone converting from LPG to CNG.
Geoff Johnson
Fellow Ericson Owner
CNG tank exchanges are available at Brewer's in Mamoroneck, NY (15 miles from NYC).
ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
LPG is cheaper if you just have to buy the gas. The cost to convert from CNG is not cheap as the company that made our stoves Regal is no longer in business to supply conversion orifices so you probably need a new stove (1k), there is also the cost of hoses, tanks, a storage area if you dont have one, a sniffer, solenoid, etc. While there are some issues with availability and I would not cruise long-range or live aboard with CNG, it does offer some advantages. It is lighter than air making it safer in some respects than LPG. It is already installed on my boat, making it one thing I don't need to work on
. A tank cost me $60 on exchange and lasted me 2 summers. I grill a lot.
. A tank cost me $60 on exchange and lasted me 2 summers. I grill a lot.ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
Yes I have found some sources for burner conversion but the whole project just did not make much sense for me. It would be a lot of work and an expense that could be much better applied to a new dinghy..
Shadowfax
Member III
Ted makes some excellent points. I have the CNG setup. Yes, it is more expensive then propane to refill. I believe propane even burns hotter then CNG and if you are in an area where it is difficult to exchange tanks, it can be a hassle. Out of the country it may be impossible. FWIW most boats from the 80's on, in our marina, are CNG.
I did some research and talked to some natural gas people. Most cities have some sort of CNG program that generally are used to fuel autos. The gas itself that fills a tank is about $2.00. The problem is the fitting they use to fuel a car is not the same as the one needed to recharge the tanks we use. There is a conversion fitting that last time I looked into it was around $250. The gas people [Philadelphia Natural Gas] said that if I bought the fitting they'd fill my tank. That place is 20 miles away from my home. The tank exchange I use is a mile away from the boat and the boat is 135 miles from home
The two things going for CNG are, 1. it's already installed on the boat and 2. it is lighter then air. No nasty little incidents in the bilge.
My E34 came with a propane locker in the stern sheets. I've bought a propane tank and connector hose that leads to my grill mounted on the rail above the propane locker. Everything is outside and the propane locker is passively vented to the outside. As we grill every weekend the only use the CNG gets is cooking the veggies and making coffee in the morning, so a CNG tank can last a season to season and a half.
I have heard of people converting from propane to CNG for the safety factor, but I agree with Tom that 99% of conversions, are from CNG to propane. .....so if anyone converts, I'll take that CNG tank you need to get rid of. I could use a spare.
I did some research and talked to some natural gas people. Most cities have some sort of CNG program that generally are used to fuel autos. The gas itself that fills a tank is about $2.00. The problem is the fitting they use to fuel a car is not the same as the one needed to recharge the tanks we use. There is a conversion fitting that last time I looked into it was around $250. The gas people [Philadelphia Natural Gas] said that if I bought the fitting they'd fill my tank. That place is 20 miles away from my home. The tank exchange I use is a mile away from the boat and the boat is 135 miles from home
The two things going for CNG are, 1. it's already installed on the boat and 2. it is lighter then air. No nasty little incidents in the bilge.
My E34 came with a propane locker in the stern sheets. I've bought a propane tank and connector hose that leads to my grill mounted on the rail above the propane locker. Everything is outside and the propane locker is passively vented to the outside. As we grill every weekend the only use the CNG gets is cooking the veggies and making coffee in the morning, so a CNG tank can last a season to season and a half.
I have heard of people converting from propane to CNG for the safety factor, but I agree with Tom that 99% of conversions, are from CNG to propane. .....so if anyone converts, I'll take that CNG tank you need to get rid of. I could use a spare.
CNG vs Propane
CNG is not available in the Bahamas. Propane is somewhat difficult but available at the major settlements. Sometimes you have to drop off your tank and pick it up later or the next day. 10lb refills cost about $15.
The issue there is that in the US your propane bottle must have an OPD valve (Overfill Prevention Device) which our government instituted to protect us from ourselves. In the Bahamas, where there is no such requirement, the OPD valves cause problems for the gas company. The Bahamian filling stations feel that they can't fill the tank enough and so bang the tanks on a rock or something to unfreeze the float and thus try to get a few more pounds into the tank. That has to be helpful?
Anyway, we used to be able to get CNG here in St Petersburg, FL but no longer. CNG on boats is a white elephant from the 1980s caused by the Cole Bros. distribution system.
I would agree that it's a good system for boats ... our Tartan 34 had the system and it cooks just as well as propane despite the BTU difference but then I've used a newer model Origo alcohol stove too and to boil a teapot full of water for my coffee in the morning, the Origo did just as well as either CNG or propane.
One other note on propane.
I have a brass fitting that allows me to refill the camper gas (1lb) bottles from a larger propane tank (10lb on my boat). It's very simple and works well. Cost was $14.95 from Harbor Freight Tools. It also works in reverse. It's a handy back up to running out of gas either for the stove or the grill. Camper gas bottles in the Bahamas cost $7 or $8 each if you can find them.
We start each season with two new bottles and end up refilling them each a couple of times. We also take some care to coat the bottles with Boeshield or similar to minimize rust.
I also have a fitting that allows me to connect a camper gas (1lb) bottle to my house system ... never had to use it but it would get my dinner to the table if we ran short one evening and our spare tank was empty too.
I just love redundant systems.
CNG is not available in the Bahamas. Propane is somewhat difficult but available at the major settlements. Sometimes you have to drop off your tank and pick it up later or the next day. 10lb refills cost about $15.
The issue there is that in the US your propane bottle must have an OPD valve (Overfill Prevention Device) which our government instituted to protect us from ourselves. In the Bahamas, where there is no such requirement, the OPD valves cause problems for the gas company. The Bahamian filling stations feel that they can't fill the tank enough and so bang the tanks on a rock or something to unfreeze the float and thus try to get a few more pounds into the tank. That has to be helpful?
Anyway, we used to be able to get CNG here in St Petersburg, FL but no longer. CNG on boats is a white elephant from the 1980s caused by the Cole Bros. distribution system.
I would agree that it's a good system for boats ... our Tartan 34 had the system and it cooks just as well as propane despite the BTU difference but then I've used a newer model Origo alcohol stove too and to boil a teapot full of water for my coffee in the morning, the Origo did just as well as either CNG or propane.
One other note on propane.
I have a brass fitting that allows me to refill the camper gas (1lb) bottles from a larger propane tank (10lb on my boat). It's very simple and works well. Cost was $14.95 from Harbor Freight Tools. It also works in reverse. It's a handy back up to running out of gas either for the stove or the grill. Camper gas bottles in the Bahamas cost $7 or $8 each if you can find them.
We start each season with two new bottles and end up refilling them each a couple of times. We also take some care to coat the bottles with Boeshield or similar to minimize rust.
I also have a fitting that allows me to connect a camper gas (1lb) bottle to my house system ... never had to use it but it would get my dinner to the table if we ran short one evening and our spare tank was empty too.
I just love redundant systems.
Tom Metzger
Sustaining Partner
CNG regulator
Speaking of converting to CNG, I still have a regulator left over from my LPG conversion. If anyone needs one send me an email with an offer.
trmetzger@earthlink.net
Speaking of converting to CNG, I still have a regulator left over from my LPG conversion. If anyone needs one send me an email with an offer.
trmetzger@earthlink.net
I have CNG and as much as I recognize that its a PITA I feel its much safer. Lighter than air beats pooling in the bilge any day. My boat came with 3 CNG bottles so I figure I am covered for all but the longest trips I would likely take. Maybe thats a solution for you? Look for an extra bottle. RT
Dan Simpson converted his boat (35-II) to propane recently and as I recall had a story about the equipment needed to fill a CNG tank at the local Gas Company. I could be wrong, but I think he tossed the equipment because it scared him. I think he was a HVAC man and if it scared him I'd lean away from going the route of filling my tank myself..
Though on the other hand if you buy a CNG vehicle here in SoCal for a few hundred dollars you can hook up a "pump" at your house so maybe a solution is in the near future.
Bottom line is that I wouldn't spend my money to convert unless I was going to Mexico. I have a spare tank which I carry on the Penquin. I was lucky to get it.
John
Though on the other hand if you buy a CNG vehicle here in SoCal for a few hundred dollars you can hook up a "pump" at your house so maybe a solution is in the near future.
Bottom line is that I wouldn't spend my money to convert unless I was going to Mexico. I have a spare tank which I carry on the Penquin. I was lucky to get it.
John
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