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just had survey done

gypsyrecs

Member I
On a 1985 E32. I was really nervous (still am) but the survey experience was very positive. I used Ron Grant who I found on these pages. In fact, I probably would not buy a boat if this website did not exist. It's very comforting to know that there are so many experienced Ericson owners out there, especially here in ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
><st1:City w:st=
<ST1:place w:st="on">Los Angeles</ST1:place></st1:City>. I narrowed down my boat search to Ericson, and only Ericson thanks to the glowing reports from the owners. Anyway... down to business... The boat has seen very little sailing use but it was a live-aboard. There are lots of little things that need to be fixed (hopefully by the dealer - a trade-in boat) but I was wondering about the big things like blisters. There were some very small blisters (about 1 inch wide) just above where the keel connects to the hull. I was told this is normal and can be fixed easily.

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My question is this: Is this really normal? Would it be very unusual for a 1985 boat to have zero blisters? There were no signs of blister repair and none above or below this one area. And no hollow spots or damp areas. <O:p></O:p>
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Also: I enclosed a picture of the leading edge of the keel. As you can see it is separating very slightly from the hull. I was told this is also normal and that the keel bolts should be tightened every five years and this area can be ground down and patched over. After looking at the pics it looks like there might be a bulge around that area. Not sure if that is from past repairs or a blister.<O:p></O:p>
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Question #2: Is this separation normal? and is it easy to fix? <O:p></O:p>
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Thanks so much for your help. I need to decide in the next day or so whether to buy the boat. What do you guys think? I really want to buy it but I don’t want an endless headache.
 

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Jarod

Member III
When I bought my e27 the survey said the same thing. The boat had between 150 and 200 blisters up to 1inch . I was pretty concerned at firstl, but after alot of research on the web I came to the conclusion that most older boats will have some blistering and unless they are very large 2 inch and larger it is unlikely that they are a major issue. I should warn you though that if you have many and you intend to fix them yourself, be prepared for a miserable job. The blisters I had with the exception of maybe 5 did not extend beneath the first layer of chopped strand (the outer cosmetic glass layer - non structural). I had a few that went into the very first layer of mat and that was it. I used a carbide bit on a dremel and ground all of the blisters out to good solid material. It needs to be in a crater like shape and you must be careful to only remove that which is necessary. I then washed the craters several times with fresh water over a period of a couple of weeks. You then need to thoroughly dry the boat...I expediated the process with a tent and some heaters over the course of a month. Some will tell you that you need longer and they may be right but I didnt have the patience. I filled all the craters with west system epoxy thickened with colloidal silica and sanded fair. I went the extra step of taking off all of my bottom paint and even slightly sanded thegelcoat to make sure I was getting even the tiniest of blisters. I then resealed the whole thing with the interlux epoxy paint product and knock on wood no new blisters yet...this was a year and a half ago. Do your research and make an informed decision...you will find opinions all over the scale...just keep in mind that the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle as it usually does on the web. One thing I would have done differently though is used the blisters as a bargaining tool in your purchase...if you do the job yourself I would expect that it would cost in the neighbourhood of $1000 - $1500 for materials/tools etc., forget about recouping your labor costs that ain't gonna happen. There is no money in the world that could get me to do that job again.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
You may want to do a search on keel/hull joint or similar terms as I recall several previous posts that addressed the question of the crack in the keel/hull joint. I think it isn't uncommon, and is often repaired by re-torquing the keel bolts and re-caulking the joint with 5200 or similar. If there is sign of leakage through the keel bolts into the bilge, you would have to drop the keel and completely recaulk it all--a more expensive undertaking. As yours is on the front part of the keel, I would also check to ensure it wasn't caused by a grounding which would place stress on the front part of the keel/hull joint. Look for any other signs of grounding or damage.

Ericsons are well-built boats and as you can see on this site, have a strong following. However, depending on what else the surveyor found, and the asking price, you will need to decide if this is the right Ericson for you.

Good luck, and ask lots of questions--the folks here are very knowledgeable.

Frank.
 

Tazman

Member I
I have a 1985 Ericson 32 and as far as I know they are not subject to a blister problem. My boats bottom is clean of anything that could be considered a blister. My experience with Catalina educated me about blisters. I did have a slight crack where the keel mounts but neither I or the surveyer considered this a huge problem for a 20 year old boat. They are great boats and very well built.
 

gypsyrecs

Member I
I should clarify that there are only about 5 to 8 quarter size blisters just above the keel joint towards the forward edge. Maybe caused by that joint separation?
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I would ask the surveyor for his opinion on the blisters. Otherwise, in my opinion, 5 - 8 quarter sized blisters doesn't seem to me to be a huge problem, if the boat is otherwise sound. I think you (or the boatyard) could grind those out and refill as mentioned in one of the replies above. The challenge is that the hull needs to be dried out, usually for a few months, before you can effectively do this repair--otherwise you just seal in the moisture, and cause more problems.
Your comment that the blisters are just above where the crack is in the keel/hull joint would lead me to take a close look at that. It may be that the crack is allowing moisture in--maybe affecting the keel bolt in that area. That could be a concern--again the surveyor should be able to comment on potential problems.
The most thorough fix, I think, would be to haul the boat, drop and rebed the keel, at which time you could examine the keel bolts, dry out the hull and do the blister repair--potentially a costly and time-consuming process, but then you would know that this has been addressed. At least this is something to discuss with the boatyard/broker and build into the purchase price.
Others may also have an opinion, and perhaps other suggestions for you.
Good luck!
Frank.
 

Rob Hessenius

Inactive Member
Gypsyrecs- I sure hope everything works for you with the survey and such. To me it doesnt sound as if there is too many problems that you should worry about. Its a mighty fine looking vessel that needs to be used to be appreciated. Welcome to our site in advance. Rob Hessenius:egrin:
 

gypsyrecs

Member I
they want $37,500 for the boat. given the listed issues, does this seem like a fair price? I know the mention of any blisters what so ever can scare off buyers. But should these relatively minor blisters substantially lower the asking price of the boat? And the keel joint "smile" as well?
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
ask your surveyer what similar boats have been selling for... he'll have a subscription to a service that will give the actual sale price of boats by make and model. it might give you a better feel for their pricing. Seems like the right range, depending on sails and systems.
Chris
 

gypsyrecs

Member I
The rest of the boat is sort of a mix of good and bad. The woodwork is excellent, the engine is very strong and shows signs of being well taken care of. The standing rigging is good. It's never run aground (no sign of it anyway) The refrig. works fine, as does the water heater, VHS and depth. The seller will replace all the pumps that don't work. The sails and running rigging should be updated soon. But I'm more concerned about the safety and structural issues. After reading about the cost of rebedding a keel on other posts here... yikes. I wonder what percentage of Ericson boats (not owners) have had their keel taken off.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I don't know the answer to your question about how many Ericsons have had their keel removed/rebedded. But I think what you have described so far is fairly typical of the condition of most boats that are about 20 years old, regardless of their make.

I was lucky in buying a boat last spring that had been pampered by the previous owner, who replaced almost all the systems in the past five years. If you aren't too familiar with boats, you might familiarize yourself with a book like Nigel Calder's Mechanical and Electrical Boat Manual--there are so many parts to boats this size, and they do all wear out eventually: plumbing, electrical, batteries, pumps, exhaust systems, seacocks, sails, standing rigging, running rigging, woodwork, ports/windows, galley appliances, anchors/rodes, lifelines, VHF radio/compass, steering, rudder, etc. etc.

If you have looked at a number of boats, you and the surveyor will be able to compare the condition of this boat and it's price, with others on the market. Either way, you will need to budget and make time for the ongoing maintenance and repairs required of a boat this size--some say as much as 10% of purchase price per year, and more if the boat has been neglected or will be taken offshore/ocean. Based on the pictures you posted, and your description, I don't see anything yet that would say this is a bad boat or not a good purchase. But you need to be aware of the realities of boat ownership/maintenance, especially if this is your first boat. In my case, this is my third boat, but the first two were smaller, without the complex systems of a larger boat--I have had to learn alot in a short time!

Good luck!
Frank.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Frank's thoughtful post is worth printing out and magnetizing to your fridge door...
As to price, a good Ericson-32-3 sells for 45K to 50K here in the NW. 37,5K with the usual handfull of blisters is a heckovadeal, barring any major revelations from the survey.

When we had our keel rebedded (story in the archives here) the yard told me that this typically costs about $1200 to $1800. Considering that this is a every-20-year kind of preventative maint. job, it amortizes out OK for us.
(YMMV)

Think of the maintaining of an ocean-capable boat like the Ericson as owning a second home with all the systems and utilities that go with it. Plus, it lives in a corrosive and weather-adverse ever-moving environment. (An equivalent structure on land would be built to withstand an 6.0+ earthquake without a scratch.) :cool:

Loren in PDX
(opinions rendered cheerfully, deposit one cent please)
 
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Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
I have just had my keel rebedded for a second time:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=4308&highlight=refit

At at a minimum, you should have a keel nut removed to check the condition of the threads underneath. Because the design of our boats makes it impossible to remove all the water from the bilge, the bolts sit in water.

Here's another relevant thread:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=295&highlight=keel+bolt

BTW, it's a great boat. You'll really enjoy sailing it.
 

gypsyrecs

Member I
thanks for all the great input. This would be my first real boat. I've been a hired hand on many a boat and I've owned a Boston Whaler and a 22' Bristol sloop with an outboard but nothing like this Ericson. After looking at these boats for years on yachtworld.com I was eager to actually sail one. Finally got to on a the sea trial. What a beautiful ride. Not unlike the 52 ft. cold-mold I crewed on. Wouldn't it be fitting to purchase a boat on Valentine's Day. Although my wife may not appreciate the irony.

Another question: On the sea trial, when we were heeled over on a port tack in about 10-12 kt wind, water was coming up the starboard cockpit drain. Is this common? It was coming close to the engine control panel. Looks like the last owner tried to waterproof the key area. I was thinking if I get the boat I could put in a flapper valve on that one drain. It didn't seem to come in on the port drain when we tacked over. weird.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
If you haven't discussed this potential purchase at length with your wife, I would suggest you do so! :0305_alar
I think there are few things in life (maybe kids?) that consume as much time, energy and money as a sailboat, so ideally she will have agreed and be (almost) as excited as you are about this.
The boats I owned previous to my Ericson 30+ were a 22' southcoast and a 23' san juan--both were much, much simpler to manage and maintain than my current boat, though I love the challenge and the possibilities that the Ericson 30+ presents, sailing on the coast.
In response to your question, water can enter the cockpit scupper when the boat is heeled. That can be prevented by installing the valve you suggest or also by crossing the hoses so the scupper drains on the opposite side which would be the "high side" when the boat is heeled. There are advantages and disadvantages to these options, which others would know better than I do.
Frank.
 

gypsyrecs

Member I
no, no. She's very supportive of the idea. In fact, she might want the boat more than I do (chooses to ignore my warnings about boat ownership).

As she says, "You come from a nautical family. You've wanted a boat your whole life. It's all you think about. It's all you talk about. Will you buy a damn boat already!"

Yes dear!
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
No big issues so far

At least from what you have written....The keel thing is not something I would call damage or a problem. The boats have stubby fin to which the lead keel is sealed and bolted. Over time, the keel bolts do need to be re-torqued, so unless this is done periodically these cracks will appear. Once repaired and tightened as described already, just check the torque each spring just before you launch. If you stay on top of this I doubt it wiill happen again, but there is no cause at all for concern about this.

Ditto the cross feeding on the drain tubes, and ENJOY!!!

S
 
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