tips on ericson 33

Tips/Info on Ericson 33 Needed

I am going, this Saturday, to look at an 1982 Ericson 33 that I am thinking of purchasing. Any tips on this boat would be useful. This will be my first sailboat. I had a powerboat for 8 years, but sold it 2 years ago. I have taken the J-World sailing classes and have crewed in the Wednesday 6-pack series locally. I still consider myself a novice sailing, but am learning fast. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Peet

Hey Peet -

While waiting for some of the owners to respond, you might want to do a search on these forums for 'E33' related threads. Try searching on "*E33*" (but, without the quotation marks of course)

You might also consider looking in the Owner's Registry for SoCal and check to see if there are any existing owners in your area who would be happy to chat about their E33, etc...

Good luck with the purchase!

Happy Holidays!
//sse

an E-33 thread

I tried Sean's link and could not make it work. But here is a good one concerning this model:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3757&referrerid=28

Best,
Loren

thank you for the links, very helpful.

More E33

Peet,

The previous thread is a very good discussion of the boat. It is a very fine design. We enjoy ours very much. I think it would be very good for your (usually) light air around Long Beach. It performs very well!
I hope to receive our new main sail any day now & we look forward to that improvement for our boat.

Keith
E-33 hull #24
Channel Islands

We have owned our E33 for 5 seasons now and also love the boat. She is in my opinion a perfect blend of performance yet with nice cruising amenities. We have spent 25-30 nights per season no board and have had relatively good success racing with our local club. I suppose the only thing she doesn't do well is follow friends on powerboats to the beach so we picked up a whaler a couple of years back as well! Please drop me a line with any questions you shoudl have about the boat as I have learned a whole lot about her in the time we have been togehter!

New main`

Keith,
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, make sure the new main can get BOARD flat with about 80% of the available backstay throw!!!

Cheers,
S

Seth, do you really mean....?

Seth,

Do you really mean "board flat". I don't think I've ever seen a boat with absolutely flat sails (in pictures, etc.). They always seem to have at least some slight curve/camber. Isn't the way wind flows over the curve of the sail a critical component of sail function and speed? I do understand that a relatively flat sail is needed in heavier air (I have been sailing for 15 years, and read lots), but "board flat"?

Perhaps I'm interpreting what you said too literally... But I love learning more about sailing, so welcome your clarification.

Thanks,
Frank.

Flat

When a boat is fully overpowered ( for the 33, upwind in over about 18 knots unless you have a small jib up), there is enough "draft" existing in the main even if visually all of the depth has been taken out (draft stripes look flat).

You want to have enough adjustability to go from max depth to having removed it all-then you use what you need for the sailplan (how big is the jib, are you reefed, etc.) in use at the time.

The amount of draft varies with weight on rail and lots of things, but there are times when you need it as flat as you can get it...
Hope that helps,

S

Thanks, Seth....

Thanks, Seth. Helpful, as always.
Frank.

Backstay

Seth,
My boat has a fixed backstay. It may be unusual for an E33, but that is the case. Is an an adjustable backstay something I should have on my Christmas list? More importantly, how flat should my main be given that I have a fixed backstay?
I will sail with the guy from the loft (Gary of Ullman sails, Channel Islands) next week to see & evaluate the new sail.
Thanks,
Keith
P.S. The weather report said it snowed on the Channel Islands last night....unheard of!

Flat main.

Gary Swenson? Great guy. Very talented. If you are going to the expense of a new main, I would think you would be thrilled with the adjustment you can get out of it with an adjuster-really a huge difference.

Fill Gary in on this thread, he may recall when I sailed the protoype in the LA Harbor Series (got clubbed in the heavy air) in 83 (ish)-but remind him the boat is a bit tippy (although I am sure he knows). No doubt, if you are not going to add an adjuster, the sail should be very much on the flat side as it is delivered to you. Otherwise you will be regretting it out in mid channel. For you, anytime the breeze is fwd of the beam, your goal is depowering if there is more than 10 or so knots of TWS, so a "naturally" full main will be very frustrating most of the time-unless you have ability to change the shape by bending the mast.

Say hello to Gary!

S

Seth,

I am interested in your comments above, and on other posts as well, that so many of the Ericsons (like the E33 here, my own E30+, etc.) need to be depowered starting around 10 - 13 knots. While I understand the reasons for keeping the boat fairly flat, avoiding weather helm, etc., I was used to beginning to depower my previous boat, a San Juan 23 around 10 - 13 knots--but these Ericsons are 10 feet longer and many thousands of pounds heavier (san juan 23 displaces 3,000 lbs).

Is there some inherent design characteristic with Ericsons that tends to make them a bit more tender than other similar size boats (aside from major design differences like a blue water Pacific Seacraft or Alberg 30 or Contessa, etc.)

I am not being critical of Ericsons (I love our boat), but just curious as this comes up quite regularly on this website).

Thanks,
Frank.

Nor am I

Tender boats are good-mostly, Frank. The E boats in question have somewhat higher SA/DISP ratios than many cruisers-meaning lots of HP for the weight-this produces boats which perform very well in light air. That covers the HP thing. Also, they are mostly narrowish in the ends-also a predicter of very good light air performance in that wetted surface is thus minimized. Those skinny ends (this is a very basic explanation) unfortunately do not provide much stability (for the length/beam/WL)-so this design series is relatively powerful, fast in light air, easily driven (lots of sail/short waterline/small wetted surface area).
What does it mean in heavy air? Tippy, so to keep them on their lines you must first flatten sails, then reduce sail. Other designs with fatter back ends are stiffer and can carry more sail in more breeze. The good news is the E-boats will continue to perform well in breeze, as they are easy to push through the water-but they are not doing it as a result of hull shape optimized for heavy conditions-as long as they are kept upright they fly right along.

But, this whole discussion really applies to more boats than many folks think.

A great example are the San Juan 24, 28, 30! These are SUPER tender boats-VERY fast in light air, and OK in breeze-as long as you get the sail off them.

To compare, boats like many PSC boats, the old Albergs, and many Contessas, not to mention Islander 36's, older Swans, Ericson 46's, are stiff, relatively heavy boats with good sail carrying ability, but are not as good as newer E boats in the light stuff. Go farther to things like Valiants, Peterson 44's, Cheoy Lee's, etc. and you have very stiff boats that do not need to reduce sail until much higher breezes, but really do not get going until you have 10-12 knots of wind.

Me? I'll take a more powerful boat that is quick in light air. You can always reduce sail, but can add only so much to a given rig size.

So, none of this is any indictment of the series of E-boats-it is more general advice to the many people I see sailing around overpowered, heeled way over, making excessive leeway, and scaring their passengers. Good sailing practice means carying the correct amount of sail for the conditions. Your boat will always perform better AND be more comfortable to sail..

Anyway. Please excuse me if my posts lately have not been as coherent as before. I am still recovering from knee replacement surgery in December, and it has been less than pleasant. I have been a bit distracted because of it..

You guys have boats which are very good performers in most conditions as a result of a combination of hull shapes, SA, disp ratios, etc. It is just a fact that in order to have a good light air performer, you must get sail off sooner to keep such a boat on its' "feet" as the breeze comes up..


Happy Trails,
S

E-33 back stay tension

Keith, I wonder if a prior owner removed the factory two-sided multiple-part line backstay adjuster on your E-33?


Another E-33 at our club and my O-34 both now have Sailtec hydraulic integral adjusters with a fully-extended turnbuckle on top. This way one could get the backstay tight again if the cylinder goes south while you are on vacation.

Also, both rigs have a (approx.) two foot extension rod (or wire) pennant below the adjuster, to have it up where it is easier to read and pump.

Cheers,

Loren in PDX

Thanks, Seth....

Thanks, Seth, for your detailed reply regarding Ericson "tenderness". Your explanation made really good sense. I agree with your premise of preferring a boat that performs well in light air, and can handle the heavier stuff with the right sail configuration. I certainly have no complaints about my Ericson 30+ so far.
Best wishes for your recovery from knee surgery--never pleasant stuff, but hopefully it will be a distant memory for you soon.
Thanks again.
Frank.

appreciate that

Thanks Frank!

Tender is good in women & sailboats

Seth,
Thanks so much for your explanations & comments. Always insightful! I too hope your knee is better very soon!
Yes it is Gary Swenson I am buying from. I will pass your regards on to him & see what he remembers about that era & the E33.
In heavy air, upwind, we spill air using the traveler, then reef eary, reef often. I suppose a backstay adjustor would help if we could add that adjustment to further flatten the sail. I will have to look for a reasonably priced adjustor, if that exists.

Loren,
I don't think split backstays have been removed from the boat, but next time I am down in the lazarette, I will look at the corners of the transom more closely. My feeling is that the boat never had a backstay adjustor.
Thanks everybody,
Keith