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wiring in the 38 mast

dwigle

Member III
I want to add a tricolor to my early 38 and wonder what obstacles I'm going to face running another wire up the mast. Are there any obstacles such as foam in the mast, is the wiring in a tube? what should I expect? My current thought is to use an existing wire to feed three more up (one to replace the original, and one to power the tricolor, and one to feed a future project). Any suggestions would be appreciated.

On a separate note, turnbuckle screws do break and should be checked as I proved Sunday when an intermediate blew in front of Pier 39. Rust was the major factor.

Don Wigle
Wiggie Room
E 38 #8
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
I rather doubt my rig on E-38 hull #318 is the same as yours....but yes, the wiring runs inside a tube which is split PVC pipe that runs along an extrusion (on port IIRC). With the mast down it was straightforward to use the wire that ran to the masthead anchor light as a messenger line, to run a messenger line down the mast, then run a bundle of four messenger lines back up the tube. I then used the lines to replace the anchor light wires, and run a new cable to a masthead wind instrument, leaving a couple of spares.

I too intended to mount a masthead tricolor, but never got around to it - mostly because I am convinced that a masthead tricolor is of no use unless you are offshore.
 

windjunkee

Member III
I was just up the mast this past weekend on my E-32. I was replacing the VHF antenna and coax cable. The antenna went on just fine. However, we intended to use the old coax as the leader to pull the new cable through the mast.
First problem -- the hole at the top of the mast, shared by our wind instrument cable, was too small to accommodate the joint of the two cables.

Second problem -- two areas of foam insulation in the mast.

The joint between the two cables parted ways at the first area of foam.

My partner Mike went to the local hardware store and purchased a 50 ft. fish wire, narrowest gauge available. The hardened steel of the fish wire was able to get through the foam plugs.
From the top of the mast, we sent the fish wire down.
Then we tied a small nylon line to the fish wire and whipped the joint.
We pulled the nylon line up the mast and tied the coax cable to the nylon line, again whipping the joint to make sure it was super strong.
Then we pulled the cable down the mast and the job was done.

I tell you, two and a half hours in a soft bosun's chair will DEFINITELY cut off the circulation in your legs.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Wire, Watts, and Guage...

Don,
If your 38 has the Kenyon spar like many of the 80's Ericsons, then it would likely be like Steve's and our '88 -- a pvc tube up the front side of the spar interior.
there is only so much room in that tube, though. :(
You did not mention replacing the old factory wiring, but it would be overdue by now, anyway.

The good news is that the LED lights increasingly coming onto the market nowadays require much smaller wire. I was conservative about wire sizing when we re-wired a few years ago, and it was a struggle to get 'em all thru, along with the new coax. :nerd:

Remember that the tubing has a cutout of some kind to exit several wires to the steaming/foredeck light, also.

With the LED lights, you could downsize to something like #18 or even smaller perhaps... Of course your halogen foredeck light bulb will need the larger wire. the bundle that goes to the wind transducer has to be factored in, as well.

Of well, if yacht ownership were easy, just anyone could own one!
:D

Cheers,
Loren
 
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Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Caution!

I would be careful about reducing wire size too much. It still has to support itself and perhaps the bundle for the entire height of the mast. I don't know if there is an ABYC standard for wiring in the mast.
 
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NateHanson

Sustaining Member
I'd also caution about fishing a wire blindly down a mast. If you do this you have no way of knowing if you've gone around a halyard, across a tang bolt, etc etc. No guarantee of a fair lead if you're just pushing it down through the mast.

Chafe points like that could damage the wire or the rig.
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
fishing

We fished 2 lead lines up when we pulled the original anemometer so that we could add an LED later.
Tri-color masthead is handy racing, since you can't use your anchor light (legally) and still need to see the windex.
Chris
 

chaco

Member III
Tri Color Blues

You will need Tri Color AND Anchor Light wiring :nerd:
Just went through this exercise on Merlin.The PO installed a Tri Color only fixture :confused: Not COOL
The Navigation Rules require BOTH. Luckily all I had to do was change
the lens out to a 360 Anchor Light and forget the Tri Color idea for now.
Orca Green (www.orcagreen.com) has a neet new LED Tricolor that has (3)
colored lamps in one fixture. All you have to do is switch them to Running
or Anchor Light. I could not justify the $150 pricetag vs a $30 lens :D
Aqua Signal (www.aquasignal.com) has a nice dual fixture unit...pricey:cool:
I will also run a small line as a messenger, using an abandoned wind
instrument wire as a runner. Will leave it in place for future work.

Happy Wiring :egrin: :egrin:
 

Howard Keiper

Moderator
This is a really interesting problem.
The ABYC likes the idea of supporting conductors every 18", or sheathing and supporting the involved conductors. I, myself, have concluded that if the conductors are properly insulated where (if) the conductors enter the mast; and if they are supported by proper strain relief appratus (those "chineese finger trap things) arranged so as to carry the weight of the conductors, lights or coax, then you've got the makings of a good installation. I also use a lot of those heavy weight nylon cable ties wrapped around the conductors along the entire length of the mast with the tails left intact...looks like a spider web, and effectively silences internal cable slap and still allows plenty of room for internal halyards to function..
Also, it is possible to use the functions of Anchor Light, Tri-color, and Strobe with only two conductors...ala the old AZIMOV system.

Howard Keiper
Sea Quest, E-35
Berkeley
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Also, it is possible to use the functions of Anchor Light, Tri-color, and Strobe with only two conductors...ala the old AZIMOV system.

Howard Keiper

Ok I can easily get two of the three, anchor, strobe, and tricolor, how about that third. You can do two of them with 4 diodes for less than a quarter, and about 2 minutes with the light before you mount it to the top of the mast. However the third......
HMMMMM

Guy
:)
 
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Howard Keiper

Moderator
You're right about the Anchor & Tri, though you do it with two diodes...and the appropriate switching at the control panel, as you know.
The trick is, that the old Azimow strobe/tri combo has (or had, anyway) the high frequency switching power supply for the strobe's high voltage installed down below near the control panel too, and what Azimow did was to impose a high frequency, about 1khz or so, on the two conductors giong to the masthead so that that part of the unit (the strobe) had a source of AC with which to generate the required HV for the tube. Pretty clever. All I had to do was to figure out which of the conductors to use because it turns out that the masthead unit itself expects to find that AC on a particular conductor and it's ground return, and they get swapped as a result of the switching.
hk
 

chaco

Member III
Diode Trick

Guy...would you please explane how to wire up the (2) conductor anchor /
tri color light trick ? I only have ground and positive wires available, with
switch at the panel :confused:

Thanks
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
2 wire masthead lights

Don - Here is a way to do it. Both of the wires must be independent of any other lights as you are reversing the polarity on them. Other lights will not work correctly.

It takes a diode at one terminal of each light and a double pole-double throw switch (DPDT) on your panel. The switch should have a panel circuit breaker or fuse between it and the battery. The diodes should be sized to exceed the current flow of each lamp.

The circuit is shown twice, once in each switch position.

In case you were wondering, I got my jobs based on my good looks, not my drawing skills. :cheers:
 

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