Bilge keeps filling with water

Hello please help,

Ive just bought an ericson 29 and the bilge keeps filling with water. After a week the bilge was full half with water so I emptied the bilge and went out sailing and motoring for approx 4hrs. The next day I checked the bilge and it was 3/4's full again. Im beginning to get worried as I live 2hrs away from the boat and it only has a manual bilge switch (the boat is 29 years old). The boat goes into dry within about 10 days but Im really concerned as I dont want the boat to sink ! Will it sink ? Ive also got a full days sailing to take it to dry dock, Is this a problem?

The impellar plate gasket was leaking which I replaced and thought this was the problem but I guess not.

Ive turned the raw water tap off just incase.

Any ideas or help as Im really concerned !

Thank you in advance

now is the time...

Actually, now is the time to find out where that water is coming from. Otherwise you'll spend a bunch of money to have it hauled and the leak will most likely still be there when it goes back in.

Generally there are only a few places large quantities of water can get in. I'll fire off a couple of them, and I'm sure somebody else will fill in stuff that might also be going on. Trick is to dry out the bilge and find it before you haul the boat, that way you can fix it while it's on the hard. Mini shop vac is a valuable tool, then a sponge, and finally a hair dryer to fully dry the bilge.

-Check your keel bolts- they are often a cause of leakage. Has it grounded recently?
-Through hulls- engine intake, salt water sink intake, speedo or depth, etc...

Those are the biggies. Take the time to find it, and it'll be cheaper than having to haul a second time when the problem returns.

As far as the 2 hr drive-- I'd go see it every 3-4 days, or get the marina to check on it for you or something.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out

Chris

Probably the stuffing box.

The point where the propeller shaft exits the boat is kept relatively watertight by a packing nut/stuffing box. I say relatively, because most need to drip a little water to keep the shaft lubricated. For an excellent article on how stuffing boxes work and servicing them see Don Casey's library on the BoatU.S. web site:

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/Casey/StuffingBox.htm

On the Ericson 29, the stuffing box is just aft of the transmission. To get to it, you'll need to remove the center cushion from the berth under the cockpit. (If you boat is anything like mine you'll have to move the inflatable kayak, the bag of PFDs, the oars for the dinghy, etc. before you can get move the berth cushion. ) Then remove the engine cover and crawl back along the port quarter berth. The stuffing box is at the very back of the engine compartment and looks like a short piece of 3" diameter rubber hose with hose clamps. Follow Don's instructions to tighten it up.

A couple more items..

Just wanted to say if you are filling up the Ice box with lots of ice that it will drain into the bilge. The stuffing box sounds like the culprit though. When you heat up the engine and packing more water will pass into the bilge.Mine when I got my boat barely dripped but when it got running for a while it leaked a lot. Then it would cool and slow up.....My E29 has a fixed keel and so should yours i think. Good Luck..

Wes Zimmerman
E29 "SAILSCALL"
Grand Lake Oklahoma

Yeah, it's my understanding that the stuffing box should only be dripping when it's turning. When the boat is at the dock, engine shut down it should not be dripping...check the stuffing box ASAP.

What about the mast on this boat? I know my mast (and most of the others) permit some amount of water to leak down it - although 3/4 of the bilge is a lot of water...

You might consider purchasing a float switch and doing a dirty install (a temporary, open installation) to your panel until you get this resolved - just so you can sleep...I would.

By the way - where in the US are you located? You need to fill in your profile so we can see who/where you are....

//sse

I would install an automatic bilge pump as a matter of point, regardless of whether your bilge fills with water. The E29 is not a simple boat. It has multiple thru hulls, and an inboard engine with the requisite stuffing box. Water will get into your bilge, primarily thru your stuffing box, but also via other channels as have been mentioned. It is foolish not to have an automatic bilge pump on a boat such as ours, especially when a Rule 750gph pump only costs $50. Sean is right about the stuffing box, but sometimes there remains a persistant leak when everything is off, ideally no more than a a few drops per minute (I think it's worse to overtighten the packing nut to stop any drip since this will cause more friction against the shaft). As you can envision, this will fill your bilge up over time.

There are things you can do to keep water from coming into your boat, such as installing a dripless stuffing box, but that is another discussion. It is prudent to assume water can gradually make it's way into your bilge no matter how hard you try to keep it out, and this fact necessitates having an automatic bilge pump (and reliable batteries).

If you would like a diagram of how mine is installed, I'll be happy to share.

My 2c.

Auto Bilge Pump

I plan on installing an automatic bilge pump on my 81 E33, and would appreciate a look at your wiring diagram. My email is E33@msn.com, or coyles5@msn.com

jkenan said:

I would install an automatic bilge pump as a matter of point, regardless of whether your bilge fills with water...

Click to expand...

I would agree with that - but if you're delaying doing it because of the time needed to run the wiring, I would consider doing a dirty one now just to get it in...

//sse

Thanks everyone for your advice and help.

I have phoned the previous owner (whos owned the boat for the last 10yrs) and he said the bilge has always had some water in it and it has never been a problem.He left it for 6 weeks over the summer un-attened. He also has never had the stuffing box replaced or tuned, so Im guessing this is the main culprit as it filled up after motoring for a couple of hours.

John,

it would be great if you could send me the wiring diagram for the automatic bilge? Also how long could it run before the battery went dead?

Has anyone ever tightened the stuffing nut on an E29? Is it hard ? Can you just use 2 adjustable wrenches?

Thanks

Taz

It is my understanding that the stuffing box may require "thin" wrenches that are built for just such a purpose. Follow Jim's link, it has all the details. That link suggests no more than 5 years for a packing gland replacement.

You don't say specifically if, after you've returned from the motor trip, the rate at which it currently fills. If you are looking a 1 week = 1/2 bilge, that is still enough to worry me "just in case" it decides to rain or something decides to open up more. However I can't say that would bother me if it was consistent... just be sure to check it every couple of days.

About the circuit - go to the local boat store and find what you need. They SHOULD have a circuit layout in the paperwork. If you are really in a pinch, you may be able to use one of those automatic pumps for pumping out cellars and basements... not sure how well it would work so others may chime in on that.

Bilge Leaks

Taz, There could be more than one issue at hand accounting for your bilge filling so rapidly. As with others, I would also look to the stuffing box first as the culprit. You mention that the previous owner had not touched it for the 10 years he owned it, suggesting to me even more that you need to look there first. Simply tightening the packing cup and jamb nut might not be the solution either given that you don't know the condition or type of the packing flax. Assume that the old packing is shot and come armed to replace it all. You might want to consider buying some TefPack Synthetic Shaft Packing, a Drip-Less Moldable Packing Kit and some Stuffing Box Lubricant before returning to your boat, all of which can be seen on page 258 of the 2006 West Marine Catalog. I find that having a pair of 18" Channel Lok pliers on board for adjustments and emergencies are a must too and you'll need them or something similar to work on the stuffing box. West and others sell a pick for removing the old packing but I've found that a simple slotted blade pocket screwdriver works well for me. By levering it against the shaft and pressing it into the opened cup, it's a simple matter of rotating the cup with your free hand and the old flax will come spiralling out. Follow the simple installation instructions for the new stuff and you can go home that night and sleep like a baby. The entire job should take an hour or less. I'll also offer another suggestion here that I must admit I've never tried but can't imagine not working. Buy a bees wax toilet ring at any hardware store and use a small portion of it to shove around the shaft to staunch the flow of water that'll come in when you unscrew the cup. Failing that, tie a rag around the shaft and have someone manning the bilge pump switch to keep ahead of the incoming water. I don't want to scare you here but there will be enough water coming in to get your full and complete attention. That said, any decent manual of electric pump can more than do the job as long as there's someone right there to operate it in the absence of an automatic switch. Go fo it, Glyn Judson E31 #55, Marina del Rey CA

I would definitely figure out what's leaking before you take the boat out of the water, as the amount of water you're getting is WAY beyond my comfort level. The stuffing box sounds like a good place to start looking, but I see no reason to replace the stuffing now if you're going to haul the boat in a week. Do that job out of the water, especially if it's new to you.

For now, I'd check the stuffing box, if it's leaking tighten it until it stops, and then tape a note to the ignition key (if you have one - otherwise put it on the starter switch or something) to check the stuffing box when you start the engine next. You want to cut down the drip now as close to nothing as possible, but you should make sure water can get through when you next run the engine. (this might mean loosening the stuffing box a bit).

After you temporarily decrease/stop any leak from the stuffing box, pump out the bilge, sponge it dry, and blow dry it to see if there are any other leaks. The time to find them is now, before you haul, as someone else pointed out.

If you can't stop a leak that's still filling your bilge in a couple days, I'd certainly go buy a rule automatic pump, and an in-line fuse holder, and wire the pump to the hot end of your battery switch, as a temporary safeguard until you properly wire a bilge pump and auto/manual switch.

Taz -

I've done mine (35-3) in the water and it was not that big of a deal (the rate of the water flowing in, I mean). Although I would have a friend along with a six pack of beer and a finger on the pump just to settle your nerves since you don't have a float switch (get one and install it ASAP).

One thing I have to differ with Glyn on however (sorry, Glyn...) - I would avoid using channel locks - and instead get your self two open ended box wrenches that are match for the packing nut sizes. If you don't want to purchase them, you can rent them at any tool rental place (I rented two for an afternoon - $10). The box wrenches are nice because they A.) won't tear up the metal of the nuts (I bought two 18" channel locks and scored my packing nuts - to this day they sit in my toolbox, unused), and B.) the handles on them provide great leverage making the job much easier...and you don't have to squeeze while you're trying to turn it, etc...

This assumes, however that the space you have to work in is open enough to use these. If you read the thread on the E27 packing nut issue, you'll see I stood corrected on this - as there is very little room there to maneuver on the E27. Hopefully you'll have a bit more space on the E29...

Good Luck!

//sse

Sean Engle said:

Taz -

I've done mine (35-3) in the water and it was not that big of a deal (the rate of the water flowing in, I mean). Although I would have a friend along with a six pack of beer and a finger on the pump just to settle your nerves since you don't have a float switch (get one and install it ASAP).

One thing I have to differ with Glyn on however (sorry, Glyn...) - I would avoid using channel locks - and instead get your self two open ended box wrenches that are match for the packing nut sizes. If you don't want to purchase them, you can rent them at any tool rental place (I rented two for an afternoon - $10). The box wrenches are nice because they A.) won't tear up the metal of the nuts (I bought two 18" channel locks and scored my packing nuts - to this day they sit in my toolbox, unused), and B.) the handles on them provide great leverage making the job much easier...and you don't have to squeeze while you're trying to turn it, etc...

This assumes, however that the space you have to work in is open enough to use these. If you read the thread on the E27 packing nut issue, you'll see I stood corrected on this - as there is very little room there to maneuver on the E27. Hopefully you'll have a bit more space on the E29...

Good Luck!

//sse

Click to expand...

I second the suggestion of getting the exact size wrenches that you need. Use a couple of channel locks if that is all you can find, but long term your tool kit should include a set of two wrenches specifically sized for your stuffing box. As for the fit, I would suggest you plan on cutting them down to a size that will fit in the space available. I did this on my 38, and it saved many a curse word to be able to quickly adjust the box with wrenches that I was able to use in that tight space. You can order wrenches that will do the job nicely from Mcmaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/ ).

Proper wrenches

Sean, Steve and all, Right you are about using open end wrenches but I must say that since using all the Teflon stuff, I've only needed to "adjust" the packing no more than once a year, closer to two years to be honest and considering that, my stuffing box hex nuts aren't scared up all that much, certainly not enough to repurchase all new wrenches that's for sure. Glyn E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

Taz-

Below is the bilge pump schematic on my boat (not including the electrical wiring which is very straightforward - an 'always hot' positive lead to the battery (fused), a positive lead to a bilge switch on the circuit panel, and a negative ground). I'm considering installing another pump in the exact same fashion, about 6" higher than the first, in case the first one fails (I sail with my dogs, and frequently find dog hair in the bilges (and everywhere else!).

As far as battery power goes, it completely depends on your bank. I go with two 27's, which gives me over 200 amp hours. Fully charged, and with the bilge cycling on a couple/few times a day, they should provide enough charge to last a few months, and I'm never gone for more than a couple of weeks.

Regarding the stuffing box, definitely inspect it (read up on it first) or have it inspected considering your statement that the owner hasn't looked at it in years. Adjustable wrenches are fine, IMHO.

Do your research, know your boat. Anything that happens is ultimately your responsibility. Good luck!

Bilge pump addition...

All,

I like a easy solution to the bilge pump without running a lot of tubing to a rear though hull. What I did was run tube to my sink in the galley and used a dishwasher down pipe on my galley sink. This allows you to empty the bilge through a existing though hull close to the area in question. I have a 850 bilge pump and it never back flows into my sink. Although it does take up a little extra room in my cabnet. Just a thought..

Wes Zimmerman
1975 E29
SAILSCALL
Grande Lake Oklahoma

Wes-

Please forgive my frank disagreement with your approach.

The problem I have with this solution on the E29 is the bottom of the sink is just above the waterline. After installing a fitting to junction the bilge hose into the sink drainage hose, the vertical max of your whole bilge hose assembly is either even or slightly under the waterline, and definitely so if you are on a port tack. This creates a high risk for siphoning sea water back thru your bilge pump into your boat. You've got to have a sufficient vertical rise in the hose above the waterline (combined with an anti-siphon loop) to prevent this.

Just my opinion, which can be easily ignored.

Cheers.

Interesting..

J,

On mine that doesnt seem to be an issue....The pipe is a good 6" or so above water line. Will have to watch for problems...Good insight...It has worked great so far.

...and my boat does list to port slightly, which after I resolve that issue, I should have more waterline clearance from the base of my sink.