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Old BOMAR Portlights

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I was pretty disappointed to find out how the aluminum BOMAR portlights along the sides of my cabin were designed when I took the first one off the 'Project a couple weeks ago. My dismay turned to determination and I have been thinking about whether to re-use them, how increase the sealing surface area, and how to get the teak plywood away from the edge of the 12-1/2" by 5-1/2" cutout. The sealing surface is the 5/16" thickness of the house cutout and the portlight is a little too small for the cutout. Either that someone didn't take much care to center the port during the installation process. Back to dismay - I really don't like these old ports and the way they mount. The teak is trashed, so I'll be replacing or covering that up.

Now that I've read most of the portlight rebedding and replacement posts my head is spinning. You've done some really good work. So, today I started looking at other port designs, including/especially stainless steel ports. I really liked what I saw on the New Found Metals website. http://www.newfoundmetals.com/index.html

I am looking for a portlight (opening) that will fit the cutout, or come close, and that has an external flange that actually is designed to be part of the seal. If you've run across any like that, or could actually talk me into reusing the old ones, I'd really like to hear from you.

We are heading out this weekend anyway. :D Port Gamble Saturday and Port Ludlow Sunday. We hope you Vikings have a great Labor Day holiday, one way or another.

Thank you in advance!
 
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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Craig,
I too am disappointed in the Bomars. Mine need new seals and the lenses are heavily crazed. I have contacted Bomar and asked about replacement seals, lenses and even screens. The only thing they can offer me is bulk seal material in the 1/2" or 9/16" size at $3 a foot. They didn't even comment on the availability of lenses and screens despite THREE separate email requests. Kinda annoying.

I understand that the gasket material is available by the foot from other sources I just haven't got around to it.

Regarding NFM they look very nice and I have seen their product up close as a buddy that is rebuilding a Hatteras purchased 8 of their ports. NFM appears very well made, very heavy cast all stainless port. Made in China, of course. There are two things I don't like about NFM. The port design has the spigot protruding from the inside of the hull, then the outer ring bolts on from the outside. This means that the sealing area falls between the spigot and the outer ring. NFM's installation instructions show the liberal use of butyl sealant around the spigot that pushes out both on the inside and outside of the hull as the port is installed. The end result is that the seal is not between the outside sealing flange but is actually only between the spigot and the inner wall of the portlight cutout. This may or may not be and issue but I would prefer a larger sealing surface on the outside of the hull not the inside wall of the opening. The NFM's look fantastic though and someone here on the board already has them on a E38.

I also wonder about getting parts/seals/accessories from NFM in the future. This again may not be a big deal since I cannot seem to get parts from Bomar either.

Just my two cents, RT
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Ports

Hi Craig,
You might want to look at the port installation portion of Wally's web site about the installation the composite ports he added.
http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/windows/index.htm
(I have no opinion either way on the styling change he made in his C&C, but do understand the need for more ventilation on most boats.)

The photos of the details involved are quite well done, and, as always, his commentary is excellent.

I have also seen these ports at the NFM display at last year's Strictly Sail show and they looked nice.

We have all Lewmar opening ports on our '88 model, FWIW.

Loren
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Thanks Rob & Loren. I enjoyed Wally's narrative. The result was very nice looking. The stainless or bronze NFM ports would require opening up the cutouts by 1/4" but the Trimatrix type seems to have a 5.5" x 12.5" cutout size. The Trimatrix look interesting, although I'm partial to the homogenous look - all plastic or all metal exterior. Still thinking about that one.

I visited the Lewmar website and my 5.5" x 12.5" (317.5 mm x 139.7 mm) cutouts aren't very close.

I like the idea of glass lenses. The acrylic lenses in my ports are frosted badly, too.

The Atkins & Hoyle have acrylic glazing, but maybe they would do glass if I a$$ked. I sent off questions to both this evening.

I will keep looking and asking around.

Cheers,
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
I like my Bomars so much that I replaced them with new ones. The problem is not with the portlights but the drunken sailors at Ericson who made the coutouts and apparrently have never heard of such a thing as a template. On one of my portlights the external flange overlap on the coach roof was about 1/8" in one corner. Since the seal comes from the flange being squeezed against the coach roof with bedding compound when the interior retaining ring is screwed on, my solution was to build out the opening with epoxy putty so that the bedding compound has something to press against. My boat just went through a severe storm without leaking.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Geoff,

Thanks for the comment. I wonder what else I'll find when I remove ports 2-7?

If you are talking about the cabin side ports, I'm interested why you liked them (did I miss some sarcasm?). My reaction and frustration about what I found stems from the fact that failure of the sealant is generally not going to be discovered until some wood damage has occurred. What I thought to be old cosmetic damage turned out to be an ongoing situation. (insert picture of ostrich with head buried in sand here)

I would say that the seals around the opening part work fine. The knobs are ok.

:soapbox:

There might even be a sound reason why they are designed to be mounted that way. But the reason can't be that they're overly concerned about avoiding the need for maintenance or damage to the interior. Rant over.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
No, I'm not being sarcastic. I find the ports seal very well because of the metal fram around the opening lens (unlike, for example, the Lewmars). I am not clear on why you have a problem with the way they seal. Isn't it standard for ports to have a flange that is bedded against the boat's fiberglass?
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Two things bother me

about the way these Bomars seal to the boat.

1) They install from the inside of the boat - the flange and spigot are one piece. If I eliminated the teak plywood trim and sealed the flange to the fiberglass then I'm not as unhappy about this. This design makes the opening part seal quite well - no problem there as long as the glazing is properly installed because that is what the foam rubber seals against. But the inside flange is out of action as far as keeping the seas and the rain out - no sealant was or should have been used against the teak plywood.

That is why the primary sealing surface is the 5/16" edge of the cabin cutout, against the spigot. That makes these ports a poor design, in my opinion.

2) The outside ring is 1/4" thick and it fits against the outside of the cabin cutout. That makes an additional edge surface to seal against the spigot, but the outside ring surface plays no part in keeping the water out. Neither the flange nor the ring can be used to form a nice, wide gasket against water.

Seems to me the thinner edge surfaces would be prone to expansion and contraction type stress on the sealant. After awhile (a few years, to be sure) the sealant is compromised and now water can get to the teak plywood. Eventually, the water leakage becomes apparent, but it's bordering on too late.

I may decide to build up the inside cabin surface with a plastic ring or something. That would allow me to use sealant on the inside flange, and keep the interior plywood further away from the leaks. To do this I would have to cut back the plywood and decide how to deal with the seam between the buildup piece and the wood. Not a bad option, if I keep the Bomars. I would also have to get and install new acrylic glazing. Mechanically there's nothing much wrong with them. The finish is shot, but after 26 years...

Here's a side view of the spigot with the dogs on the inside flange, and the outside ring slid over the spigot.
 

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footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Thanks for the reference, Geoff. I can understand why you're happy with them. I wish they had West Coast dealers. I may call or e-mail them and see if I can get more information about how they mount. I looked at the Hood stainless line also, but there's not enough technical data or good enough pictures. They're proud of them too. Pretty expensive.

I still haven't heard back from Atkins & Hoyle via e-mail. New Found Metals has come right back the next day both times.

New Found told me that they also sell finished solid teak beauty rings for their ports for $25.00. Which doesn't sound too bad compared to $14+ per square foot for 1/2' teak boards, considering I don't own a router or any other precision woodworking tools.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
FWIW I found the Bomar sales people very responsive by email. They even sold me the replacement ports at 50% of list price when I complained about not being able to replace the lens on the old ports.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Craig,
The NFM's have the same mounting setup as the Bomar in your pic so the mounting issues will remain the same. I am with you on the questionable aspect of the spigot/inner flange water seal issue. I have noticed other portlights are built the same way. Seems illogical to built a "watertight" device and install it in such a manner. FWIW, my old Bomars mount from the outside like Geoff's link shows. RT
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Wrote to Bomar this evening

Thanks guys. I sent off my e-mail inquiry to Bomar/Pompanette this evening. Do you know what model and/or part number you have on your boats? The only once I can see that probably would fit my boat without messing with the cutout is the 200 Series Cast p/n C200-STD-W. Pretty expensive, too at $613.00.

I'll let you know what they say.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Wow this thread got stale

Update on progress of the Bomar ports. I've done three and I think I have the process down pretty well. Here are pics of the second one I did.

I kept the ports and just cleaned up the outside surfaces, which were painted, with a wire wheel, sandpaper and crevice tools. I left the outside finish natural. The inside paint stayed as it is mostly in good shape. I found some material loss due to corrosion, but it's not that bad.

I peeled off the old plywood in one piece (not easy), which was crumbling in several areas, and used it as a coarse template for the new piece of 1/4 inch (5mm) Teak veneer plywood. After cleaning the last of the wood off the resin surface I had to use epoxy to seal up several places where the inside glass mat was damaged by my tools. You can see where the wood burning heater stack went through the cabin ceiling.

Once the new plywood was trimmed to fit the space, I put it up temporarily and made a tracing of the port hole and marked the screw holes. Then I took the King "Starboard" ring, with the proper outside shape (see the port w/ring pic), and put it in place, and marked the cut I needed to make. The 1/4" thick "Starboard" ring is the key to a better, larger sealing surface. After the wood was cut, the next picture shows the dry fit. The close-up of the ring and plywood in place shows how I kept the ring even with or just inside the port cutout. I did trim the forward side of that cabin opening to give more room for sealant between the port and boat.

The last photo shows the port installed and cleaned up, with the headliner back in place. I avoided tacking the headliner to the new plywood, which explains the mismatch with the aft section. We are still making decisions about how to finish the teak. Lots more work to do there. But, the cabin leaks are slowly getting fixed. Cosmetics will come later.
 

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Maine Sail

Member III
Regarding NFM they look very nice and I have seen their product up close as a buddy that is rebuilding a Hatteras purchased 8 of their ports. NFM appears very well made, very heavy cast all stainless port. Made in China, of course. There are two things I don't like about NFM. The port design has the spigot protruding from the inside of the hull, then the outer ring bolts on from the outside. This means that the sealing area falls between the spigot and the outer ring. NFM's installation instructions show the liberal use of butyl sealant around the spigot that pushes out both on the inside and outside of the hull as the port is installed. The end result is that the seal is not between the outside sealing flange but is actually only between the spigot and the inner wall of the portlight cutout. This may or may not be and issue but I would prefer a larger sealing surface on the outside of the hull not the inside wall of the opening. The NFM's look fantastic though and someone here on the board already has them on a E38.

I also wonder about getting parts/seals/accessories from NFM in the future. This again may not be a big deal since I cannot seem to get parts from Bomar either.

Just my two cents, RT


Just some info on NFM.

1) Richard and Nikki, the owners of NFM, own the factory in China and just spent huge money to build a new one. They are NOT sourcing these ports to the lowest Chinese bidder as they are the bidder and owners of the factory. Nikki's family is from China and that's where the connection is..

2) The NFM ports DO NOT have to be installed in the manner NFM suggests which I too disagree with. Here is a "How To" I wrote that contains over 40 photos of the NFM installation process.

Installing New Found Metals Portlights


Considering they just built a new factory my guess is NFM wil be around for a while and besides these things are built to last and are not cheesy stamped frames they are solid cast 316 stainless..
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
What kind of glass?

I like real glass also and ended up getting laminated glass panes made to replace the polycarbonate in the Bomars. The thinnest that was offered turned out to be perfect. The process of cleaning out the silicone bedding was a pain. The old silicone was still in good shape, though. I wonder if they were changed by the last owner between 1991 and 1995 when he refit much of the boat - but did not re-bed the port frames.

I used black Life Calk polysulfide to bed the glass in the frame.

I completely agree on the looks of those NFMs. Very pretty. Thanks for the link, Maine Sail. Excellent tutorial. Nice tools, too. In the end I decided to save the dollars when I already had a set of ports. I think I made enough improvements in the installation - but time will tell. I think the butyl tape is an improvement over the use of just about anything from a tube given the proper port design. The screws in the Bomars are sort of a weak point, but not necessarily worse than NFMs. They all mount using fasteners and rely on sealer to keep water out. Any screw that leaks can be removed, the area dried and the screw re-sealed.

I still haven't thought of a reason why the spigot mounts from the inside on all these port designs.
 

MarinersWay

New Member
time has gone by

Hi,
Now that some time has gone by, did you ever replace the originals or have any luck with retrofits from Bomar?
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I did complete the re-bedding of the remaining three Bomar ports in the forward half of the boat in the way I described in the 05-03-2008 response. I did it all myself. I did not replace the ports, only the lenses. I didn't seek any more help from Bomar/Pompanette.

I used a drill and wire wheels to carefully complete the cleanup of the crusty 5200 from the cutouts and the spigots, and to clean the last of the gray sealer from the old lens frames. That sped up the process quite a bit and made a nice clean surface. The original port that I completed in 2006 is still doing great. The decision to use 3/16 laminated glass for the new lenses has proved to be a good one.

As I completed each port I gained more respect for the Bomar ports beefy construction. Even though there was some pitting here and there from the environment, due to the shrinkage of the 5200 used to bed them originally, the thick castings still had plenty of meat on them. Luckily, all the cutouts in the cabin walls were pretty close to correct and I didn't have to make any repairs. A few of the screw holes in the cabin walls had to be improved, but the flange and ring plus sealer was always more than adequate to prevent leaks.

So, I am glad to be done with that project and have learned to live with the features of the ports that bothered me. I still have three of the four large fixed ports to re-bed, but they are quite a bit different from the opening ports.
 
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Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Adding some photos as a resource for future owners looking to understand what they have.

Leaking ports (fixed and opening) are the subjects of other threads to search for, but when the teak is bubbled this extensively it's past putting another layer over it and time to strip and replace the veneer. Note the black mold where leaks had been between the aluminum and sidewall.
20190208_170432-L.jpg

With a port light out and before cleaning off the leaking old caulk, you can see that the structure is solid. From 0 - 1/4" is structure and 1/4" to 1/2" is teak. (There's a blue tarp outside)
20190310_164022-L.jpg


Newspaper test (simply put water on the window) showed how bad these fixed frames leaked to the glass. There are threads discussing the options of glass vs plastic for window material and bedding the glass with either sealant (Life Caulk or others) or new rubber sold for Catalina 30s.
20190218_093229-XL.jpg

The opening BOMARs had leaked so long the metal had eroded so those needed to be replaced. Christian Williams and others have posted threads about what is needed to replace them with the slightly larger Lewmars.

Cutting out the teak and replacing it is a major job of cutting the edges of the material to be replaced and grinding teak off fiberglass. You will find that the fiberglass is very uneven beneath the teak with large voids.
20190316_143335-L.jpg
The headliner is stapled to to the teak so I cut along the edge and this transition can be hidden by the wood trim strip which comes off.
20190316_143254-L.jpg

Glue on the new veneer and install the new port lights.
 
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