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Rudder swing on Ericson 36C

Ian Hay

Member I
The outboard rudder on my boat has some looseness in it that makes a heavy\dull noise when a wave hits it at anchor. It seems that the pintle that is on the foot of the rudder that sits inside the solid cast bronze shoe (gruntle) of the boat is moving around a little. The way the systerm is constructed makes it impossible to see and get at until the rudder is removed.
I will be hauling out soon and am thinking about putting thickened epoxy resin into the shoe, waxing the pintle and putting it all back together while the resin is still wet so that when it dries there should be a perfect fit. -- Anyone done this before or have any other ideas or comments?
 

Emerald

Moderator
Hi,

I had the same issue, and Glyn pointed me to a really neat easy solution. Wrap the pintel in teflon before inserting it back into the shoe. You can buy the appropriate material from McMaster-Carr for a few dollars. Here are some links:

Their home page:

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Some of the teflon product directly:

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/P...9332403956&ScreenWidth=1400&McMMainWidth=1080

I came up with the above link by doing a search from their home page on "teflon sheet". If you repeat this, you'll have a ton to look at.

Tied to the rudder on your boat, is the rudder on mine. Just as an FYI, I did a recore of my rudder last winter, and put together a page on it, which you may find helpful if you have water saturation issues. My water intrusion seems to have come from the bolt holes from the quadrant.


http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/rudder/rudder-intro.html

and the projects page this came from, where you may or may not find other useful info:

http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/projects.html



-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Rudder clunk solution.

Ian, Your boat and our E31's have the same pintle/gudgeon design and we all have had the same problem you speak of. The pintle and gudgeon are bronze and over time they get egg shaped and begin to wobble and clunk. Please feel free to visit our E31 web site at http://e31.no-ip.com/ and click on the Tips button. That will lead you to several Rudder Clunk Solutions. I just noted that I said the Teflon shim lasted from 1997 till now. Well that's not quite true, it lasted until about 2003. I recently hauled and replaced the Teflon, a two-man job that took less than an hour. When using the Teflon method, it's only necessary to remove the pintle enough to rest it to the side of the gudgeon hole just long enough to drop the Teflon in. That Teflon shim is a bit springy so will open up to a round shim, allowing you to easily slide the pintle into the middle of the shim. All that said, many others have fitted bearings or bushings and report great, more long lasting success. Personally I love the cutlass bearing idea as it's infinitely and easily replacable. Good luck, Glyn glynjudson@adelphia.net
 

Ian Hay

Member I
Thanks for the responses, I was very impressed at the speed and usefulness of them.
A couple of questions: What is the teflon tape like - springy, but does it have a sticky side or do you just kind of wrap the pintle loosely and drop it in? I am guessing the wear on my gudgeon has made the hole egg-shaped, does the teflon conform to this?
I guess I will find these answers out when I get the stuff and do the job - I am just amazed that the fix to the problem is so cheap and easy. I love it.
Thanks again, Ian
Oh yeah, I am assuming from the responses that the rudder is not too heavy - 2 men can remove it?
 
Last edited:

jeff_mc

Member I
i have the same problem. i removed the tiller cap and inserted delrin shim stock, and a delrin washer to remove the up and down slop. works great, but i still have some motion at the rudder tube. would it be possible to insert the shim stock, without hauling the boat out. im thinking that i could loosen the packng plate and slide some stock in from inside, replace the packing while im at it. it it possible?
 

Emerald

Moderator
Hi Ian,

the Teflon sheet I got from McMaster Carr was the 12" square that is 1/32" thick (pretty sure that was the thickness). It cuts with heavy duty scissors, and bends easily. There is not any sticky to it, but it easily wraps around the radius of the pintel, and can be assembled as you guessed. The rudder on the Independence 31 measures 8' 3" top to bottom - so I am assuming you are a foot or so longer? Two people can handle this rudder and one if you are clever. If you check the link above to my rudder recore project, you'll notice it's hanging from the mast (which is not stepped and lying on top of the pulpits) by block and tackle for my boom vang. I used the hole for the emergency tiller cap to put a small piece of line through to support the top. I then undid the upper bolt, allowed the rudder to rock back a few degrees to disengage the upper mount, and then lifted it up and off the shoe, scrambled up the ladder and released the vang lowering it to the ground. For the record, it took an extra person to get it in the car, and it took an extra set of hands to re-hang it (easily).

My understanding of this Teflon material is that it will basically flow in to the low spots and be squished out of the high. My boat is in a slip with incredible power boat wake action, and as such I get a pretty hard beating on the weekends. Since I've done this, my lower rudder clunk has gone away.

Part of the beauty of this method is it is so inexpensive and easy. I figure even if renewing the Teflon becomes part of a bi-annual maintenance routine, this seems to be a really slick way to solve the problem (yes, more intended bad puns :devil: ).


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 

Ian Hay

Member I
I guess that about covers it for me, thank you for taking the time to respond to my queries. I will be ordering some teflon today and pack it in when I haul out next month in Cartagena, Colombia.
Ian
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Springy Teflon.

Ian, David talks about wrapping the Teflon around the pintle and then dropping it in. As I think I mentioned before, I've found it much easier to simply drop the coiled shim into the gudgeon hole where it will spring out to hug the sides. Hint: Make the shim slightly longer than what you think it should be at first so that when doing a test insertion and the ends overlap you can simply remove a slight bit of one end until you get a butt fit. This way the shim stays in place by itself, freeing you to concentrate on putting the somewhat unwieldy rudder back in place. Glyn
 
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