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E38 Windlass

Captron

Member III
We're considering installing a windlass in the anchor well of our E38. I'm favoring the Lewmar Pro Series 1000H ... does anyone have any experience with this installation? Haven't bought one yet just thinking. Is that unit powerful enough?

I'm also thinking that I'll need to build a new floor in the bows under the anchor well for the rode with a new drain system ... looking for ideas and tips.

Thanks
 

Shadowfax

Member III
I've thought of the same project, but was concerned about the weight that far forward. Does this bother you?
 

wurzner

Member III
Folks,

I've been delinquent on showing photos of my manual windlass. I took a few pictures and am attaching one. Reinforcing shouldn't be a requirement from what I see in the picture. The forces will be more shear than compression and it looks pretty beefy. I can take more photos if anyone is interested.

Shaun
 

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Captron

Member III
I've thought about the weight but the Lewmar 1000 is about as light as they get .... and I already have the anchor, 100 ft of chain and 250ft of 5/8 nylon plus a 22lb danforth, 50 ft of chain and 150 of 1/2 inch nylon in the well not to mention the 50ft coiled hose for the salt water wash down system.

Needless to say, we're a cruiser not a racer ... trim seems ok although we do have davits with a dinghy on the stern ...
 

wurzner

Member III
I'm sure I'll get flamed for my comments, but let's take a realistic look at the weight issue. For starters, by 38-200 has an additional ~50 gallons up front to meet off shore racing class requirements...that is a lot of weight. Also, it is not unreasonable to put chain up front as well as anchor(s). Yes, for racing it is not ideal and yes, for cruising it will harshen your ride and yes, in 50 knots of wind, probably not ideal to have too much weight up front. Now back to the question. Most folks are coastal cruising and can for the most part, make informed decisions about not venturing out if it is really nasty. For those on the east coast who are much more prone to sudden squall lines, your boats hopefully aren't loaded down as if you were circumnavigating. Last of all, I doubt a windlass has ever been contributed to a sinking due to weight forward.

Many new boats have windlasses installed and I doubt that it would be that big of a issue unless you are an all out race boat that was stripped down and empty. Will it impact your ride; yes, but most likely not to the point that any of us would realize when we are loaded up with other gear from cruising. I've had the boat out in some pretty intense conditions and burying the bow has not been an issue and that is with some chain up front.

S/V Sorcerer
Ericson 38-200
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Your bow section seems different than my 89' version. I have a pan up there that holds the line and chain and drains to the sea. It is maybe 1/4" thick glass and definately not stout enough to handle a windlass. I thought of removing the pan and reinforcing it with foam and glass and reinstalling it in a more robust manner with glass tabbing but the issue of what to do with the rode was where I get stuck. I dont want smelly muddy anchor rode draining into my bilge so I would need to build a second well below the first to hold the chain and be able to drain. This is a big job (done right) IMHO. Definately on my list but not at the top. Getting the windlass is the easy part. I would cetainly want to add the washdown pump to and have it mounted in the existing well.

As for the weight issue I dont think its that big of a deal if you approach it smartly. I carry a 35 lb plow. If I went to all chain I would probably not need more than 150 ft max. I figure 5:1 on all chain is probably overkill and under most circumstances 3:1 is adequate, but lets say 5:1. At that ratio I can safely anchor in 30' of water. I have never anchored this deep on the chesapeake. Average depth at anchor is 10' maybe 12. Perhaps you guys on the west coast have deeper anchorages? With 150' of chain you can always carry another 200' of nylon rode in a more weight friendly spot if you want a backup.

I would like to see more pics shaun.
 

Captron

Member III
Shaun, from looking at the picture you posted, does your anchor chain/rode just dump into the forepeak? Is there any floor in there or does the water just drain into the bilge?

Thanks
Capt Ron
E-38
 

Captron

Member III
Ted,

My anchor well sounds like yours ... fiberglass pan about 7 or 8 inches deep but mine seems pretty solid ... I've got all my anchoring gear in there except the 35lb Bruce and a couple of feet of chain and I have often stood on top of the chain and rode in the well when anchoring... it seems to be plenty strong ...

The problem is ... that if I put another floor, low in the forepeak, below the V-berth hatch door level ... the drain hole would be too low, maybe even taking water in when the bow plunges into a wave? Any Ideas on how to address that?

Of course, if I don't put a floor in, then water in the well would just wash into the bilge ...
 

wurzner

Member III
Ron,

It drains into the bilge as I remember...I don't think I have the forward drain location that maybe the later boats have. I'll be at the boat later today and will bring my camera so I can take more photos. If anyone else wants specific photos of other areas on my 38-200, please speak up.

regards
shaun
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Shaun,

From the picture you posted of your lower anchor rode storage well, it looks like the upper anchor compartment (pan) has a drain to the bow. I see a short plastic line in the background ... My 1980 has that feature. It empties right out of the leading edge of the bow. When that line gets blocked by mud and/or pebbles, it makes the bow even heavier after a rain.

That lower area, if water comes down through the hole in the pan, does drain to the bilge eventually. Mine has a short vertical bulkhead glassed in at the bottom of the stem that catches the water first and the water works its way to the bow bilge under the aft part of the v-berth.

It appears that your pan has been reinforced to accommodate the windlass, besides the backing plate. Looks good and beefy.

I keep 60' of chain and about 120' of rode in the pan. My Bruce anchor stays on the bow roller. When I rebed the hardware up there I will add a plate to keep the shank of the anchor off the gelcoat.
 

Captron

Member III
I guess I started this thread in the wrong category ... but anyway, after reading all the past and recent threads on the subject, I think I like Tom Metzger's approach on his E34 the best...although I don't like the head banger option in the V-berth.

What I'm now thinking is to use a similar windlass but mount it in a box in the aft end of the E38 anchor well. The available windlasses from Lewmar (including the Simpson Lawrence line), Lofrans and Quick will all fit. The biggest of the bunch is the Quick which measures 155 mm deep in the 'hunk that hangs down' dimension. The others are smaller in this dimension. The anchor well in my boat measures 7" deep (in the center, more towards the edges) or about 175mm in that dimension so I have 20mm or so to play with even if I select the Quick.

I think it probably should be mounted in a box to help keep moisture away from the motor and protect the wiring connections from other metal flopping around in the well. I have the idea that I could find a piece of 6x6 square aluminum tubing? box frame member? and mount the windlass motor inside it, bolt it to the rear edge of the anchor well and bolt it through the floor of the well ... this would provide very strong corner-wise reinforcing. Worst case would be a few bolt heads visible in the V-berth. Another thought would be to fabricate the box in epoxy-glass but I like the box beam better.

On the top of this box beam, I would add thickness shims using starboard or similar to bring the gypsy part of the windlass up to deck level (within the deck thickness parameter of the winch installation) Then I would 'notch' out the back of the anchor well hatch cover to accomodate the protruding gypsy and starboard base plate.

Also the gypsy would be offset to the port side of the well since the anchor chain could then feed straight to the port side of the gypsy (my anchor roller is angled to the starboard side of the forestay chainplate and so that's the fairest lead aft) ... this also allows the off feeding chain plenty of room to the starboard side of the well to stack up or be managed by hand.

On the negative side ... This installation would require some management of the chain by hand (or foot) during the hauling operation. I would deploy the anchor as I always have ... by hand, I think. It is also somewhat assymetrical with the gypsy offset to port some.

On the plus side, the windlass would be under the anchor well cover except for the gypsy part similar to Tom's but farther forward and I don't need to modify the well itself except to drill holes for wiring. The chain, rode, etc would still stow in the usual way, laying on the floor of the well. No mess inside the forepeak, oozing stuff into the bilge. Also the chain gets a 180 degree plus wrap on the gypsy.

I'm working on drawings of all this but I don't have a CAD program so PowerPoint will have to do... it may me take a while to actually get this project underway.

I'll keep you posted and I'd like to hear what you think.

Capt Ron
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
Captron,

I'm in the process of putting in a deep well as you suggest just forward of the forward vberth bulkhead. As for the water inflow issue, if you have enough notice something such as a partially inflated heavy walled 26" exercise ball ($10, kmart) can be left in there to displace water and make inflow amounts irrelevant. I mentioned this in another related thread recently. The ball will also stablize whatever is in there to prevent thrashing around in heavy conditions.

Captron said:
Ted,

The problem is ... that if I put another floor, low in the forepeak, below the V-berth hatch door level ... the drain hole would be too low, maybe even taking water in when the bow plunges into a wave? Any Ideas on how to address that?

Of course, if I don't put a floor in, then water in the well would just wash into the bilge ...
 
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Captron

Member III
Anchor Well

I considered enlarging the anchor well tub ... it could be deeper by maybe 6 inches and still use the original drain but I decided it probably isn't worth the effort. It's big enough as it is, to hold everything I want to put up there. I'll just have to manually (or pedally ... if that's a word :p ) flake the chain.

The volume of water entering a deeper well wasn't the issue as much as allowing muddy, stinky, salt water into the bilge. Sure, I have a wash down system but it's still raw water and just dumping the chain into the forepeak didn't seem like a good idea although many boats do it that way.

The beach ball idea would work as you imagine for limiting the volume and stabilizing the contents though.
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
In my project I made the deeper well isolated from the cabin and bilge, so now it has it's own drain hole on the lower side of the bow. That is typical on the modern high production yachts.

Captron said:
I considered enlarging the anchor well tub ... it could be deeper by maybe 6 inches and still use the original drain but I decided it probably isn't worth the effort. It's big enough as it is, to hold everything I want to put up there. I'll just have to manually (or pedally ... if that's a word :p ) flake the chain.

The volume of water entering a deeper well wasn't the issue as much as allowing muddy, stinky, salt water into the bilge. Sure, I have a wash down system but it's still raw water and just dumping the chain into the forepeak didn't seem like a good idea although many boats do it that way.

The beach ball idea would work as you imagine for limiting the volume and stabilizing the contents though.
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
pics coming soon

Sure, I'll put something together this weekend. The whole project isn't done yet but I do have a water tight well now. Of course it does have the drain also. I know it's water tight because we had a deluge a few hours after I glassed it in but before I drilled the drain hole.

ted_reshetiloff said:
Neal your method sounds like the way I wan to proceed. Can you post a few pictures?
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
Deep anchor well conversion - set 1

By Ted's request, here are some photos of my recent deep anchor well conversion project. It is phase-1 before adding a vertical windlass (gypsy only) under the lid.

This post has just the befoe pics. The next post will have the after set.
 

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CaptnNero

Accelerant
Deep anchor well conversion - set 2

Here are the after photos. The glass work is only started in these pics. Four pieces had to be made to make the new compartment: a triangle in the bottom, a rear lower bulkhead, and a port and starboard side piece under the deck above the bulkhead.
 

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