I have an ericson 25, and it has a 15 hp outboard on it. im new to boats and was told not to take this boat out to sea with out sails, that the 15 hp motor would not be strong enough to push the boat home. with out the use of sails....i have sails but dont know yet how to use them and was just putting around using the motor. could a large motor be placed on a sail boat transom.it doesnt look very thick ,maybe about 3/4 of an inch thick.I was thinking about putting a 50 horse motor on it . humor me and tell me what you think.also since i bought it we are refinishing the inside and will learn to sail when its done next month. chip.
motor for e25
Chip,
A fifteen horse outboard will be fine, as long as it is a long shaft (20" or 25"). On my E 25+, I have used a Yamaha 9.9 and a Honda 15 as auxilary propulsion. Both push the boat around at six knots or so. Your existing motor should work fine. Fifty horse is not needed. Enjoy the boat and learning how to sail. Ryan
Chip,
A fifteen horse outboard will be fine, as long as it is a long shaft (20" or 25"). On my E 25+, I have used a Yamaha 9.9 and a Honda 15 as auxilary propulsion. Both push the boat around at six knots or so. Your existing motor should work fine. Fifty horse is not needed. Enjoy the boat and learning how to sail. Ryan
Steve Swann
Member III
Too much of a good thing
Chip,
Your boat is identical to mine, except that I have an 8 hp diesel inboard. Our boats are displacement boats with an identical theoretical hull speed of about 6.5 kts. Once your hull is moving through the water at this speed, no amount of added horsepower (within reason) will get you any faster speeds. Fifty hp. won't get you anywhere faster, but it will break your boat and look oddly out of place just before you sink. There is a physical limitation with our waterline lengths of 20' 10" which mathematically limits our speed (as I recall, it is approx. 1.42 times the square root of our waterline length). Longer waterlines on displacement boats will go faster than us - which is the reason we can't beat up on the 38's out there.
Your 15 hp., running well, should provide you adequate steerage and headway in most sea conditions, providing your shaft length is deep enough to keep your prop in the water at all times.
Hey, go hoist up the sails and see what happens. After all, it is an Ericson, not a Bertram!
Steve Swann
Chip,
Your boat is identical to mine, except that I have an 8 hp diesel inboard. Our boats are displacement boats with an identical theoretical hull speed of about 6.5 kts. Once your hull is moving through the water at this speed, no amount of added horsepower (within reason) will get you any faster speeds. Fifty hp. won't get you anywhere faster, but it will break your boat and look oddly out of place just before you sink. There is a physical limitation with our waterline lengths of 20' 10" which mathematically limits our speed (as I recall, it is approx. 1.42 times the square root of our waterline length). Longer waterlines on displacement boats will go faster than us - which is the reason we can't beat up on the 38's out there.
Your 15 hp., running well, should provide you adequate steerage and headway in most sea conditions, providing your shaft length is deep enough to keep your prop in the water at all times.
Hey, go hoist up the sails and see what happens. After all, it is an Ericson, not a Bertram!
Steve Swann
Chris Miller
Sustaining Member
Good Book...
Hi Chip,
The best way to learn is to go out and do it... but a good book doesn't hurt either. Lots of great books out there, I found this one particularly helpful when I was learning (and I had never been on a boat bigger than a canoe before our 38- my wife is the skipper)- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/06...ref=sr_1_1/104-2230888-3376730?_encoding=UTF8
Also, see if you can find some very experienced cruisers to join you for a couple of your early sails- offer lunch, some decent beer, and a mindful student and I'd bet you'd get some offers
Chris
Hi Chip,
The best way to learn is to go out and do it... but a good book doesn't hurt either. Lots of great books out there, I found this one particularly helpful when I was learning (and I had never been on a boat bigger than a canoe before our 38- my wife is the skipper)- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/06...ref=sr_1_1/104-2230888-3376730?_encoding=UTF8
Also, see if you can find some very experienced cruisers to join you for a couple of your early sails- offer lunch, some decent beer, and a mindful student and I'd bet you'd get some offers
Chris
admirals barge
Member III
chip
if you belong to netflixs they have 11 dvd's on learning how to sail to racing trim.....would be a good way to get some idea as to basic sailing...
happy boating
greg
if you belong to netflixs they have 11 dvd's on learning how to sail to racing trim.....would be a good way to get some idea as to basic sailing...
happy boating
greg
Steve Swann
Member III
Chip,
There is nothing to describe the feeling of hoisting the sails, falling off a bit, and having the wind in your face, the boat feeling like it has been grabbed by an invisible hand, the rail going down to the water, and listening to the water begin to gurgle and slip by. It is truly magic and a feeling all of us have each time we hoist the sails. Everyone on this site wants you to experience this as we have.
As stated before, find someone (or a couple) who you know has sailing experience and go out for the day with them. Advice? Don't fill the boat with too many people - 3 is good, 4 is about max - at least while you are learning the basics the first few times out. Sailing is a skill that you can understand in an afternoon then spend a lifetime trying to perfect.
Steve Swann
Seahorse
Meridian, ID
There is nothing to describe the feeling of hoisting the sails, falling off a bit, and having the wind in your face, the boat feeling like it has been grabbed by an invisible hand, the rail going down to the water, and listening to the water begin to gurgle and slip by. It is truly magic and a feeling all of us have each time we hoist the sails. Everyone on this site wants you to experience this as we have.
As stated before, find someone (or a couple) who you know has sailing experience and go out for the day with them. Advice? Don't fill the boat with too many people - 3 is good, 4 is about max - at least while you are learning the basics the first few times out. Sailing is a skill that you can understand in an afternoon then spend a lifetime trying to perfect.
Steve Swann
Seahorse
Meridian, ID
Go sailing!
As the rest of the group says-your boat will sail very well-and unless the wind is VERY light, it should be faster under sail than it would be with a normal sized engine (and 15 hp is on the high side for a boat of this size-just make sure you have the "long shaft" version of the motor, and that is lowered all the way down). In anything over about 10-12 knots you will match under sail whatever the engine will do (normal sized engine/prop combo).
Just to clear up the point made about theoretical hull speed, most sail boats can and do exceed the theoretical hull speed often-this will occur in in higher winds (about 20 + knots) and of course when surfing with large waves. We have a member here with a 25+ like yours who sails in SF Bay, and I am sure he can tell you about sailing downwind in that kind of wind and seeing peaks of 7-9 knots at times.
So, hull speed is by no means a limitation, and if you were to hang that 50 on the back (but the boat will not support the weight), it would push you out and over the bow wave and I guess you would be able to hit 15+ knots or more...BUT--this is a boat designed more for speeds in the 5-7 knot range, so that is simply not an option for you-and the engine you have is plenty foor this boat.
As a reference, typical 40-55 foot sailboats will use 50 hp engines to push them to hull speed-so this is WAY out of the ballpark.
I think a better description of hull speed is the speed at which it takes an exponentially higher amount of power to exceed-whether it is expressed in engine hp, fuel burn, or high winds.
Hope that helps-now go enjoy that little boat!!@!
S
As the rest of the group says-your boat will sail very well-and unless the wind is VERY light, it should be faster under sail than it would be with a normal sized engine (and 15 hp is on the high side for a boat of this size-just make sure you have the "long shaft" version of the motor, and that is lowered all the way down). In anything over about 10-12 knots you will match under sail whatever the engine will do (normal sized engine/prop combo).
Just to clear up the point made about theoretical hull speed, most sail boats can and do exceed the theoretical hull speed often-this will occur in in higher winds (about 20 + knots) and of course when surfing with large waves. We have a member here with a 25+ like yours who sails in SF Bay, and I am sure he can tell you about sailing downwind in that kind of wind and seeing peaks of 7-9 knots at times.
So, hull speed is by no means a limitation, and if you were to hang that 50 on the back (but the boat will not support the weight), it would push you out and over the bow wave and I guess you would be able to hit 15+ knots or more...BUT--this is a boat designed more for speeds in the 5-7 knot range, so that is simply not an option for you-and the engine you have is plenty foor this boat.
As a reference, typical 40-55 foot sailboats will use 50 hp engines to push them to hull speed-so this is WAY out of the ballpark.
I think a better description of hull speed is the speed at which it takes an exponentially higher amount of power to exceed-whether it is expressed in engine hp, fuel burn, or high winds.
Hope that helps-now go enjoy that little boat!!@!
S
Thanks to everyone that has sent a note or two, i'm taking this all in and will memorize all the things you have said....i like the ideas about taking some friends to help learn sailing ,,,and the videos. we are looking forward to the wonderful adventure that sailing will bring....so here's to the good life everyone,,,,thanks..............chip and angela johndrow.
2 for 1000
The engine sizing rule of thumb for our displacement hulls is to have at least 2 HP for each 1000 LBS displacement. The specs say that your E25 is about 5000 LBS, so you need 10 HP. Your 15 HP is a reasonable oversizing considering that in the ocean you're going to hobby-horse a bit since the 25 footer isn't into the optimal 30-something hull length to reduce pitching. I think the higher horsepower may help you make headway in rougher conditions and overcome the inefficiency of the pitching.
Since you haven't sailed before, you really might want to consider bringing along an experienced sailor the first time out to help you get the feel of things so you don't have learn and figure it out all at once.
Our E34 has a 23 HP for 13000 LBS. The rule says I need 26 HP, so she's more than 10% underpowered. We've only had her for a season and haven't been in conditions where the powering is an issue.
Anyway, I've heard those powering rules are really more of a guideline anyway...
-- neal
The engine sizing rule of thumb for our displacement hulls is to have at least 2 HP for each 1000 LBS displacement. The specs say that your E25 is about 5000 LBS, so you need 10 HP. Your 15 HP is a reasonable oversizing considering that in the ocean you're going to hobby-horse a bit since the 25 footer isn't into the optimal 30-something hull length to reduce pitching. I think the higher horsepower may help you make headway in rougher conditions and overcome the inefficiency of the pitching.
Since you haven't sailed before, you really might want to consider bringing along an experienced sailor the first time out to help you get the feel of things so you don't have learn and figure it out all at once.
Our E34 has a 23 HP for 13000 LBS. The rule says I need 26 HP, so she's more than 10% underpowered. We've only had her for a season and haven't been in conditions where the powering is an issue.
Anyway, I've heard those powering rules are really more of a guideline anyway...
-- neal
CaptnNero said:The engine sizing rule of thumb for our displacement hulls is to have at least 2 HP for each 1000 LBS displacement. [snip]....
Our E34 has a 23 HP for 13000 LBS. The rule says I need 26 HP, so she's more than 10% underpowered. We've only had her for a season and haven't been in conditions where the powering is an issue.
Anyway, I've heard those powering rules are really more of a guideline anyway...
-- neal
Hi Neal,
I thought I'd cheer you up on being "underpowered", and also a little perspective on what 15 hp can do. My Independence 31 is spec'd at 11,500 for displacement, but I have an additional 500 lbs of ballast in the keel which brings me to 12000 with nothing else on board. I am powered by a Yanmar 2QM15 with a whopping 15 hp. I do wish I had some more power, but with a clean bottom I can push the boat to about 6.2 at 2800-3000 RPM (3000 is max on this engine), and cruise "comfortably" around 5.4 knots at 2400+ RPM. So the point of this is, that on the 25 footer, 15hp should be more than plenty, and even on something as large as Emerald, you can get by with 15hp. That's not to say I wouldn't like to have 20....
And Chip, I think you will find sailing is a blast, and the boat will handle everything so much better when under sail. You will discover that wakes, waves etc have much less affect on you as a sailboat feels and behaves completly different when driven by sail power than being pushed from behind. I often grab crew who is not that experienced, and they are always amazed how much better the boat feels once the sail is up. Final thoughts are to take it slow. Make your first days out with someone with experience and when you are getting ready to do it by yourself, consider bringing someone with experience as backup, but you do everything like they aren't there - make them ballast but available just in case. This type of approach can help with the confidence and be valuable as you hit little glitches and can get some quick feedback on what to do and avoid being overwhelmed if things get bumpy - helps prevent the downward spiral where one whoops leads to the next and it all compounds quickly.
Enough babble - more coffee
-David
Independence 31
Emerald
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Mike Thomas
Member II
Was "larger motor" now newest sailing member
Chip
Congratulations on the new boat, welcome to our world
The book that I got along with my first boat was "The Annapolis Book of Seamanship" (by John Rousmaniere, Simon and Schuster). This book is without a doubt the best "starter book" on sailing ever written. It covers boat handling, rules of the road, safety, how a sail boat works and why (technical), lines and rigging, basic navigation, anchoring, sail trim, emergencies, equipment, just about everything you need to know to get started. I'll bet there is one in your local library if you want to check it out.
I don't think anyone should be allowed to own a boat (power or sail) without writing a book report on it!!!
It's a GREAT reference book to own. I still have the original that I got in 1989.
One read through and you will have enough knowledge to get her moving safely and be confident enough to understand what's going on. It also covers the "rules of the road" (you'll know them even if the power boat owners don't).
The other pieces of equipment you MUST have before you leave the dock are PFD's (life jackets) for everyone on board, a vhf radio (to call for help if something really bad happens) and enough line to get a tow back into the dock if something embarrassing happens.
Ericsons are well-made and very safe (you probably can't flip the thing over unless you really try). Don't be afraid but don't be reckless. Most people quit sailing because they are scared or stupid. You were not to scared to ask questions and you own an Ericson so we know you’re not stupid.
Sail as often as you can, even if it's only for an hour or two. Experience is the best teacher. Before long you'll put off mowing the lawn, toss out your golf clubs and hate to be on dry land uless you are working to pay for cool boat stuff.
Have fun and you will enjoy it the rest of your life.
Don’t stop asking questions. The 2nd best thing about owning an Ericson is this list. Feel free to e-mail me back channel if you have a question that you'd feel funny publishing on the list.
I'll help when I can
Mike T
E-29
Chip
Congratulations on the new boat, welcome to our world
The book that I got along with my first boat was "The Annapolis Book of Seamanship" (by John Rousmaniere, Simon and Schuster). This book is without a doubt the best "starter book" on sailing ever written. It covers boat handling, rules of the road, safety, how a sail boat works and why (technical), lines and rigging, basic navigation, anchoring, sail trim, emergencies, equipment, just about everything you need to know to get started. I'll bet there is one in your local library if you want to check it out.
I don't think anyone should be allowed to own a boat (power or sail) without writing a book report on it!!!
It's a GREAT reference book to own. I still have the original that I got in 1989.
One read through and you will have enough knowledge to get her moving safely and be confident enough to understand what's going on. It also covers the "rules of the road" (you'll know them even if the power boat owners don't).
The other pieces of equipment you MUST have before you leave the dock are PFD's (life jackets) for everyone on board, a vhf radio (to call for help if something really bad happens) and enough line to get a tow back into the dock if something embarrassing happens.
Ericsons are well-made and very safe (you probably can't flip the thing over unless you really try). Don't be afraid but don't be reckless. Most people quit sailing because they are scared or stupid. You were not to scared to ask questions and you own an Ericson so we know you’re not stupid.
Sail as often as you can, even if it's only for an hour or two. Experience is the best teacher. Before long you'll put off mowing the lawn, toss out your golf clubs and hate to be on dry land uless you are working to pay for cool boat stuff.
Have fun and you will enjoy it the rest of your life.
Don’t stop asking questions. The 2nd best thing about owning an Ericson is this list. Feel free to e-mail me back channel if you have a question that you'd feel funny publishing on the list.
I'll help when I can
Mike T
E-29
thanks mike , i love this site, everyone has so much knoledge and willing to help each other. like family...im sure ill have a bunch of questions to ask.... i njoy reading the questions everybody is asking and from there im learning about thins i ought to check out ,,,like my water tanks...i've been re wiring the boat and didnt realize that i havent seen my water pump...i found 2 water tanks 1 small and one a little larger 1 is in the stern and 1 is in the bow,,,, then there is a holding tank for the head,,,with a hand pump....dont know how that works yet....one problem is that of the 2 tanks i can even get to them to clean them or how they get filled as there are no connections that would show me where i would do that.....well guess ill chat with ya later,,,,thanks for your info,,,, its gladly accepted. her thanks chip
Mike Thomas
Member II
Water system
Chip,
I rebuilt my waster system last year and a 27 and a 29 are pretty much the same design. So when your ready for that one let me know. I made some nice modifications that make managing the water/waste water system nice and easy.
Mike T
Chip,
I rebuilt my waster system last year and a 27 and a 29 are pretty much the same design. So when your ready for that one let me know. I made some nice modifications that make managing the water/waste water system nice and easy.
Mike T