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Indentations from cradle jack stands

valentor

Member II
During an emergency haul-out last year, my E34 was put on a temporary cradle (which happened to have the jack stand supports in the wrong places). The result is indentations (about a square foot) where the pads pressed against the cored hull. Even though the boat has been transferred back to it's proper cradle, the indentations remain.

My question: Do I fill and fair the dents? If I do and they somehow come out on their own, then I will have bumps. If I don't fill them and they don't pop out on their own, then I will have dents.

In either case, I will not have an optimal racing bottom.

Does anyone have experience with this type of problem?
What happened to the indentations over time (in the water working the boat)?

Thanks for any help!



-Steve
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Been there......

The yard where our Ericson 38 was stored when we bought it didn't understand sailboats too well, and had the boat blocked with virtually all of the weight on the stands, and not on the keel (where it belongs). When the boat was lifted for launching and I noticed two dents in the hull aft, they told me not to worry, they would "pop out after a few weeks".

That fall when my yard hauled the boat one of the dents was still there (aft, on starboard). As part of having the hull peeled for blisters (another long story) they said that the best thing to do was fill it with mat and resin - which they did. After that the hull was stable, and I never noticed a dent or a bulge, so it must have worked.

So based on my experienece, I would suggest you let it go for a season in the water to see whether it recovers on its own before doing any surgery, as one of mine did, while the other didn't.

By the way, the hull of your 34 is not (IIRC) cored, so it isn't a question of the core being crushed, just the hull shaped being deformed.
 

Emerald

Moderator
Hi,


I had a similar experience, but it was not a cored hull. In my case it was on a '66 Columbia 24, but the same thing had happened - she had been improperly blocked and ended up with 4 pushed in areas where the pads were. It was actually rather severe, and I didn't realize it until first haul out (bought her for a couple hundred bucks, so didn't know until after purchase, as hauling to look at her at purchase would have cost more than I paid...)

So, what to do. In the case of the Columbia, it was a solid layup. I made ribs out of 1.5 inch PVC that was ripped length wise and then partially cut cross wise so it would flex to match hull contours. These pieces of PVC were placed about 4-6 inches apart depending on the location (ended up running them down the whole side of the boat basically). Then I put fiberglass tape over the ribs, placed plastic sheet on top, and then long planks on the sheet, and then jacks were used to push the planks out which pushed the ribs out, adjusting the jacks until the right contour was regained, and then allowing the taped ribs to cure. After this initial taping was cured, the jacks, planks and plastic were removed, and then I came back with more layers of tape over the PVC and then very large layers of cloth spanning across the ribs. I think I did two layers of tape per rib and 4 layers of cloth - giving each rib 6 layers of glass when done.

The above process got the hull back to its basic correct shape, and it was rock solid. The big variable here though is you mention a cored hull. I was not aware that the E-34 was a cored hull, but I am not an expert on all the hull construction methods Ericson used. I don't know if you can push out a cored section like I did. What I can say is that my dimples weren't returning to the original shape, and as I dug into this, I had to make the assumption that the flex had damaged the glass fibers, and that's why it wouldn't return. I would be concerned that you have lost some fiber strength in these areas, and I would be compelled to do something that added strength beyond a fairing compound. I might be tempted to approach repairing these areas like you were glassing in a hole, so you would fill the indentations with cloth, not filler. I would also be tempted to do some layup on the interior side that extended out beyond the dimples a foot or so in all directions.


Hope some of the above helps.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald


p.s. as I was writing this, I see that Steve responded with his experience where they filled the dimples with fiberglass, which would match my thoughts of approaching this like they were holes you were repairing.
 
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Seth

Sustaining Partner
Hi Steve

Steve (I will keep your knickname secret!),

This stinks!!! Since I was there during the emergency, and knowing the folks involved, I am really surprised this happened, and even more surprised the yard won't fix this-it is a fundemental mistake.

Have you tried this (I'm sure you have, but..)? Can I do anything on your behalf?

Anyway, I was going to contact you today anyway about the Waukegan Race for this summer (scene of the crime, right?)-if Rogue is back in action I would like to repeat our dominating performance, and maybe bring some reinforcements with me to help push the boat.

Please call or email me and we can discuss all of this!

BTW-E-fans: Rogue is a Turbo'd E 34 3/4 tonner from the 70's-not the current 34, and DOES have a cored hull. In lighter airs, this thing is shot out of a cannon-and this is compared to the latest full race boats-never mind cruiser/racers. This extra speed is from the very nice Turbo job Steve did on what had been a very mediocre boat previously (had a tiny rig and crummy deck layout before).
Cheers!
S
 

Nigel Barron

Notorious Iconoclast
Seth said:
BTW-E-fans: Rogue is a Turbo'd E 34 3/4 tonner from the 70's-not the current 34, and DOES have a cored hull. In lighter airs, this thing is shot out of a cannon-and this is compared to the latest full race boats-never mind cruiser/racers. This extra speed is from the very nice Turbo job Steve did on what had been a very mediocre boat previously (had a tiny rig and crummy deck layout before).
Cheers!
S


Seth, I have to say I am dissapointed. You wouldn't let me get by with just a passing reference to a "Turbo'd E 34 3/4 tonner." Pictures! :D
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Not my job, man!

Sorry, Nig,
You will have to ask Steve "Lurch" Valentor (sorry Steve!) for some pics- he did the work-I only gave advice and confused him ( and helped a bit with the design of the Turbo rig), making him crazy at times, I'm sure!:boohoo:

Hopefully he will share his toy with the rest of kids in the sandbox-it really is cool:cool:

Cheers,
S
 

valentor

Member II
Nigel;

The attached picture shows the new rig with the old sails. We added four feet to the mast, 3 feet to the boom, and shaved about 100 lbs. in the process.

I don't have a good picture with the new sails, but they add about 25% more sail area overall.

-Steve

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Seth

Sustaining Partner
Varsity Rig!!

Steve,

Nice shots. Can the rest of you imagine the CLOUD of sail with the full sized main(that is the old one from the old rig in the pics), and a 155% full hoist genoa?? The genny there is also short (note where the top drum is on the heastay), and I think was a 150% from the old rig and reefed..., so imagine how much sail he will have up with those new sails (or the main and his full sized A-kite, and Daisy Staysail!):cool: :cool: Talk about "powered up".

This little 138 rater (formerly 144, right?) was sailing along with most of the 78-84 raters in the lighter air, and later was hanging in with the 96-114 crowd with ease:cool: :cool:

But let's keep that info within this webite-OK?:devil:

The rig is set up for 10+" of bend :0305_alar , so that mainsail has a HUGE range of shape control.

Sorry Steve, if I am stealing your thunder, but seeing Rogue again got me excited. I'm sure we would love to hear and see more about what you have done to Turbo the deck and rig..Nicely done, Steve!

Send more pics when you can!

S
 
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Emerald

Moderator
That's a great shot. What fun!


I'll have to just dream about mast bend for sail shape with my rig

:egrin:


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Boom

Did you notice how aft of Steve's head his new boom extends??That is a BIG mainsail!!!
 

Emerald

Moderator
Yes, I couldn't help but get an impressive mental picture of how much sail would be up with the new boom and mast filled. Now the next upgrade can be a retractable bowsprit :devil:


-David
Indepenence 31
Emerald
 

valentor

Member II
David;

Funny you should mention that...

Actually the next upgrade I'm planning is a fixed bow sprit to tack the A-sail further out.

Surprisingly, adding all that sail area to the main has had an IMPROVEMENT in balancing the sail plan. The IOR rule (for which this E34 was designed favored a very high aspect ratio main. Under a chute, Rogue used to have a an abnormal propensity to round up. Only the most experienced helmspeople could keep it stable in a breeze.

Now that the center of effort is so much further back, I can afford to push the chute out further.

My first thought was to install an exagerated anchor roller and put the tack block on the end. But that's so heavy and only 6 inches of projection.

I'm exploring binding a 2' section of a carbon pole up there - which might look something like the sprit on a Volvo 70. That extra couple of feet should make a big difference.

-Steve
 

Emerald

Moderator
Hi,

Just make sure you give us more pictures when you have it all worked out. Flying the asym of Emerald's bow sprit is a blast. I'm sure you'll find it is a nice improvement to round out all the other great stuff you've done.

Lot's of fun to see what our old gals can do, and what timeless designs they are when it comes to sailing performance.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 
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