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Rigging Failure Poll

What type of rigging failure did you experience?

  • catastrophic failure of turnbuckle

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • catastrophic failure of swage

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • catastrophic failure of eye

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • catastrophic failure of wire rope

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • catastrophic failure of other

    Votes: 8 22.9%
  • inspection failure of turnbuckle

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • inspection failure of swage

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • inspection failure of eye

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • inspection failure of wire rope

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • inspection failure of other

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • Total voters
    35

Emerald

Moderator
As I am redoing the rigging on my 1979 Independence 31, I am wondering what the real life rigging failures people have experienced are. I view failures in two basic categories of:

1) those whose discovery is catastrophic via failure of the part in use and;

2) the more preferred method of failure - discovery proactively through inspection.

I experienced the latter last season and found via visual inspection a crack in the swage on the lower eye of my bobstay, and then on further disassembly, a crack in the eye across the end where you can visualize the clevis pin exerting most of its load. I am currently in the process of replacing all my standing rigging.

So, what have been the real world experiences of others? What failed? How did it fail, and did you catch it in time?


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Been there, Done that

Over two decades ago I was crew on a summer delivery trip up the WA coast on a Ranger 29; it had a decade of previous hard sailing on it.
Dismasted in about 12 kts of wind, with main and lapper up; driving to weather on a sunny afternoon.

Post dis-masting, we found that one of the loaded-up weather side lowers had broken, just inside the swage fitting on deck. Then all the strain went to the other lower and half a micro-second later it straightened out the SS toggle and pulled it out of its pin. The spar hair-pinned at the spreaders (well, duh...) and collapsed over the lee side. :eek:

Being at the tiller and enjoying the view, I was only aware of a loud bang and suddenly the view ahead was completely unobstructed...
and everyone off-watch came on deck from their afternoon nap. There we were, rolling gently in the swells, with the foot of the spar mashing a section of handrail and abraiding the teak caprail.

We salvaged the hanked-on jib, and the boom, pulled all the rigging pins, and then the spar and main and wires went down in about 360 feet of water off Grays Harbor.
We reported all this to the Astoria USCG because the skipper had wisely opted for having the VHF antenna mounted on the stern rail. We motored back to Astoria and thence back homeward up the river. We were quite an item of discussion when we pulled in to West Basin at Astoria -- VHF radio is a fishing town's version of a party line! :)

I have no trouble believing in "invisible" stress corrosion inside of swaged terminals!
:eek:

That was just one personal reason, along with advice from several riggers, that caused me to replace all our standing rigging at around 15 years on the current boat.

Loren in PDX
Olson 34
 
Last edited:

escapade

Inactive Member
Me too!

While racing from Port Huron to Alpena Mi. the boat I was crewing on lost the headstay. We had been pounding into a head sea of square 4-5 footers since about 2:00 AM with the #1 up. There was a strange "poping noise" that someone noticed while below but we couldn't find out what it was. :eek: About 8:00 AM the headstay parted with no other warning. Fortunately it was a keel stepped mast and also had a babystay that ran to the spreaders. Quick reactions by the helmsman & bowman saved the rig (stabilized mast w/spinnaker halyard). Damage to the wire wasn't noticed because of the Tuff-Luff foil covered the stay. Boat (a Yankee 30) was about 20 years old at the time and had been raced a lot but always in fresh water. It's a good idea to check these things out once in a while. Don't recommend Loren's or my method of discovery!
Have fun & sail fast
Bud E34 "Escapade":cheers:
 

Dave G

Member II
Near Catastophic Failure

My rigging failure occured st the best possible time. I was hauling the boat out for a bottom job 2 years ago. The boat was fairly new to us. We had decided to drop the mast to convert our halyards to internal. The yard wanted to drop the mast before they pulled us out of the water. I was working my way around the rig loosening all the turn buckles. The last one to be slacked off was the forestay. As I began to turn it about a quater turn the threaded portion snapped clean off. I can still remember the startled feeling I had as the fore stay poped out of my hand and flopped along the deck. Fortunatly the halyards were clipped to the toe rail at the bow keeping the mast upright. At that moment it seemed like a it was probably a good idea to replace all the standing rigging!

As near as we could tell the rigging was original to the boat, 1971. The turnbuckle in question was carroded about 1/4 of the way through.

Dave Green
E-28 Spirit
 
Last edited:

Emerald

Moderator
more info request for poll

Was thinking it would be good to post a note as to what "other" types of failures have occured when voting "other" in the poll.. Would be very interesting to see if some specific item other than those I listed as poll choices turned out to be very common.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 

Emerald

Moderator
Poll Reminder

Hi All,


Just a reminder, as we've got another thread active on rigging upgrades and problems, to come and vote here or make any postings if applicable on rigging failures you have experienced. I think it would be great if we can collect a lot of real data on what has happened. Hopefully, this will give us real life information to help make decisions by.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 

Emerald

Moderator
It would be nice to add that, but I am maxed out on the number of pole questions allowed, and there are more pieces I'd like to track failures of beyond what I was able to break out. I tried to go for what I thought would be the biggies.

Besides, we all know that there are a ton of us, myself included, who have been sailing 25-30 year old rigs for many years. Just because it didn't fail doesn't mean that we aren't on the verge of failure and should be replacing the rigs. I sailed my first year with Emerald with a cracked eye and swage on the bobstay that secures the bowsprit - if it had gone, I would have lost the whole rig, no questions asked. Well, just because I sailed with failing pieces in ignorance doesn't mean I was safe. I was just damn lucky. With this in mind, collecting how many people have been blind dumb lucky after 25-30 years is pretty meaningless. Hope that makes sense, but I really want this pole to collect information that helps us survey our rigs and determine what areas need more attention than others. I certainly don't ever want to find out the hard way I should have looked closer at some component I had not thought a source of problems, weak link, etc. :egrin:


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 
Last edited:

Gord Bell

Member II
Every one is talking about checking their turn bucles, wire, eyes, ect but when you do your check, how many do a detailed check of their spreaders. I checked mine last summer when I had the mast down for a rebuild and found that there was some areas of the spreaders, not fisable on normal inspection from a bosun seat, that were badly corroded, and that one of them was cracked where the pin goes thruogh the base to hold the spreader to the spreader base. The corrosion or the crack if left could of created a lost rig if it had not been fixed. Relpaced both upper and lower spreaders along with new wire, turnbuckles, tangs, mast head sheves, mast wiring. Now have peace of mind knowing that the mast is good and solid and should not fail for many years.
cheers Gord
sv Huckleberry
 

NateHanson

Sustaining Member
Emerald said:
It would be nice to add that, but I am maxed out on the number of pole questions allowed, and there are more pieces I'd like to track failures of beyond what I was able to break out. I tried to go for what I thought would be the biggies.
David, on another V-bulletin board where I'm a moderator (www.bostonreefers.com - no, not that kind of reefer!), I discovered that a moderator can add two more poll options by clicking "edit poll" at the top right of the poll box in the existing thread. You can go on adding two at a time for as many iterations as I've cared to try (I've gone up to about 20 before getting bored and quitting).

Just a helpful tip from one VB moderator to another. :)
Nate
 

Nigel Barron

Notorious Iconoclast
Broke the forestay at Swiftsure last year. It was a failure of the fitting.

Also lost a leeward spreader on my Ericson a few years back. Good job we did not need to tack! That was poor spar maintanence on my part. I race the boat hard, so we check the rig top to bottom at least 4 times a year now, and often after bad races.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Inspection failures

Inspection by professional found a cracked turnbuckle. Replaced by professional a few weeks later.

Personal inspection of thru-deck U-bolts found three of eight with cracks. Boat was 34 years old, presumably the u-bolts were the same age. Boat was out of service, replaced all eight.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
T-bolts on rigging are most likely to fail on the underside, which is hard to see. Helps to know what to look for.
The crack in the swage fitting is as difficult to see in life as it is in this photo.
But any such hairline crack requires replacement.
Turnbuckles fail too. I would never buy a used turnbuckle from a yacht salvage company.
Stainless steel is very tough and reliable, and it still looks bright and shiny just before it breaks..
But take heart:
Almost every failure of a yacht fitting could have been foreseen by an experienced rigger. Hire a good one.

1-Thelonious T-bolt crack replaced 2013.JPG1-Chainplate top.JPG1-gooseIMG_1904.JPG1-swageIMG_0589.JPG
 

sgwright67

Member III
How many "other" = chainplates?

I realize this is an old thread, but since it popped up again, I noticed 8 failures under the "other" category, and I wonder how many of these were chainplates, and what other types of failures can exist outside those specified. As I continue to ponder the E29 I wish to purchase, I am fully expecting that it will need new standing rigging, and if I am going to drop the mast, I want to be sure I have covered everything. Of course, I will also look at new mast wiring and halyards. The glassed in chainplates on the 29 are one major item that I will need to give some thought. I have not come across any reports of anyone replacing them internally, either by cutting them out and re-glassing, or by bonding a new plate inboard of the existing ones (and through bolting); I've only read of reports where the replacements are bolted outside the hull, which moves the shrouds outboard by a few inches. An inboard replacement could maintain the original position, but also means that water intrusion continues to be an issue.

Thanks.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
I've got no excuse - got the rig layed out on a greenhouse table where everything is conveniently observed.
IMG_2125.jpg
First detangle and casual once-over reveals a bent turnbuckle stud on an aft lower. Not easy to see in the pic, or on the boat, but it wobbles when you turn it. Bend is at the point where the grease stops on the threads.
IMG_2127.jpg
Except for the backstay, there are NO toggles on these turnbuckles. Perhaps a sign of original 1971 rigging? Also still has the "pig tail topping lift" crimped onto the back stay. Freshwater boat, but... 48 year old rigging. I'd thought of replacing the backstay this year, but I suppose everything has got to go. *sigh*
Except I replaced the forestay when I put in roller furling so it should be OK - not sure the stay comes out of the foil non-destructively...
What about the aluminum-strap toggles at the masthead that hold the stays? I'm not sure those can even be purchased anyway. Pins can be removed and inspected though.
IMG_2129.jpg
Backstay clevis pin seems to have some cracks - or gouges where it has been hammered out at some point maybe. Hmm... WM doesn't stock them in quite this length.
How much play in the halyard sheaves is OK?
This year is going to be more expensive than I thought.
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
This year is going to be more expensive than I thought.[/QUOTE said:
Yup! Good luck with your project.
My boat's ~34 years old, and I have no way of knowing if the standing rigging has ever been replaced, so it's time do it all too.
I just started this project - I'm doing it with the mast staying up, so I can only send P/S sets of stays away at one time (lowers, diamonds, uppers). I got the 4 lowers back from WM last week, and sent off the pair of diamonds yesterday.
Budget estimate: the lowers cost a bit over $900 (incl free shipping from my local WM store and back to that store from the rigging shop). Based on that, I expect the diamonds will cost about $400 and the uppers will be about $450 (= ~$1800 for all 8 lateral stays). I think the forestay and backstay are heavier gauge wire (and they're longer than the uppers), so I'd have to think they will be about $600 each. So, all up, I'm expecting my standing rigging replacement project will cost about $3K. I'll make a new main topping lift from Dyneema, so that's just a rounding error in the budget :)
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
Every one is talking about checking their turn bucles, wire, eyes, ect but when you do your check, how many do a detailed check of their spreaders. I checked mine last summer when I had the mast down for a rebuild and found that there was some areas of the spreaders, not fisable on normal inspection from a bosun seat, that were badly corroded, and that one of them was cracked where the pin goes thruogh the base to hold the spreader to the spreader base. The corrosion or the crack if left could of created a lost rig if it had not been fixed. Relpaced both upper and lower spreaders along with new wire, turnbuckles, tangs, mast head sheves, mast wiring. Now have peace of mind knowing that the mast is good and solid and should not fail for many years.
cheers Gord
sv Huckleberry

Yep! Got that T-shirt too. Early 80’s (I think) on our ‘73 E32. Noticed the corrosion on the ends by the billeted caps. I had new and longer ends & caps machined, then cut off corroded tips of spreaders making it better and stronger than when new. (Still going strong yet today.)
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
As I am redoing the rigging on my 1979 Independence 31, I am wondering what the real life rigging failures people have experienced are. I view failures in two basic categories of:

1) those whose discovery is catastrophic via failure of the part in use and;

2) the more preferred method of failure - discovery proactively through inspection.

I experienced the latter last season and found via visual inspection a crack in the swage on the lower eye of my bobstay, and then on further disassembly, a crack in the eye across the end where you can visualize the clevis pin exerting most of its load. I am currently in the process of replacing all my standing rigging.

So, what have been the real world experiences of others? What failed? How did it fail, and did you catch it in time?


-David
Independence 31
Emerald



My bet would be the most prevalent problem is with water leakage from around the chain plates penetrating down into the bulkheads to rot the surrounding bulkhead wood and balsa cored deck areas thus weakening the complete rig.

...Food for thought - when/if replacing bulkhead structures, one should also inspect the actual chain plates closely. We were hit by lightning once. Since I use jumper cables with one end bared to hang into the water which are attached to the shrouds. It seemed more logical having an internal lead keel. Worked great as said damages were minimal - or so I thought. When we replaced our bulkheads not to long back, we noticed very tiny cracks or crazing of sorts in the primary chain plates. This (we think) was caused by the lightning (???). At any rate, we replaced the chain plates as well as adding extra glass where the plates attach, and then sealing all drilled holes with resin as well. Hopefully, we have beaten ol' man Murphy - for the time being at least.

Here's a photo of the old chain plates. Tough to see the crazing/micro-cracks but they are there. The one plate furthest to the left and then the 4th hole down shows it the best.

Chain Plates.jpg
 
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